Build The "Red Rocket" Troopy

[AirheadNut]

Apparently the adapter plate not being 100% perfect even a few thousandths of an inch of offset can cyclically load the bellhousing for thousands of miles until it cracks. Ontop of the throughout bearing failing for all this time, and the extreme vibrations of a 4cyl mechanical diesel shaking everything always… it was bound to happen I suppose.

I think this is a very likely scenario. I had a similar problem with the first adapter plate I used, it was off center and destroyed clutch discs, pressure plates, input shaft bearings and pilot bushings. My engine probably wasn’t making enough torque to split the bellhousing.

My solution was to get a precision 3D scan of the transmission case and bellhousing ($100), model an adapter plate in CAD and have the overall profile laser cut from 1/2” HRPO plate ($250), and the critical bolt and dowel holes machined ($250). Overall with hardware it ended up costing around $800 to build my own custom adapter plate.

 

[theglobb]

I think this is a very likely scenario. I had a similar problem with the first adapter plate I used, it was off center and destroyed clutch discs, pressure plates, input shaft bearings and pilot bushings. My engine probably wasn’t making enough torque to split the bellhousing.

My solution was to get a precision 3D scan of the transmission case and bellhousing ($100), model an adapter plate in CAD and have the overall profile laser cut from 1/2” HRPO plate ($250), and the critical bolt and dowel holes machined ($250). Overall with hardware it ended up costing around $800 to build my own custom adapter plate.

Thanks for the heads up and explanation of everything that I should probably end up doing. Great wealth of knowledge. My only question is why just my bellhousing? The throughout bearing has been making noise since I put it in, I knew it was defective when I was holding it in my hand but threw it in anyways cause I didn’t wanna wait another 2 weeks. Clutch doesn’t slip and engages just fine, I guess I’ll find out if my pilot bearing is toast or not once I pull everything.

I’ve reached out to a Hispanic friend of mine that I’ve sold multiple Isuzu related transmissions and parts to in the past. He has connections in Honduras and said he could definitely get me a bellhousing, for $600…

I don’t know if that’s worth it or not. There’s not really a market on them. I’m a bit short on cash aswell, I figured that 80 series I fixed up would’ve sold by now. I’ve had lots of people interested and even when dropping the price to 17k for a rust free triple locked cloth interior 80 they all kinda fade away. Maybe even that is too steep of a price?

I’m guessing a decent welding shop would charge $200-300 for labor and all for a nice tig job. Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[bj70bc]

just reinforce it

 

[suppjoe]

i would definitely try welding first. drill the ends, bevel the crack, pre-heat with a torch blah blah. i wouldn't let the spool gun be what stops you.

 

[AirheadNut]

While I also recommend attempting a repair on the bellhousing before springing for a replacement, I strongly recommend that the root cause of the failure be investigated and the appropriate changes made to prevent the same thing happening again. It is doubtful that the heavy towing load is solely to blame, since the engine and bellhousing were originally designed for medium duty truck applications with GVM ratings well in excess of the combined load at the time of failure.

I suspect the root cause could be traced to several things, perhaps a combination of factors: misalignment between bellhousing and transmission, poor motor mounts, even the driveline vibration could have contributed.

 

[theglobb]

While I also recommend attempting a repair on the bellhousing before springing for a replacement, I strongly recommend that the root cause of the failure be investigated and the appropriate changes made to prevent the same thing happening again. It is doubtful that the heavy towing load is solely to blame, since the engine and bellhousing were originally designed for medium duty truck applications with GVM ratings well in excess of the combined load at the time of failure.

I suspect the root cause could be traced to several things, perhaps a combination of factors: misalignment between bellhousing and transmission, poor motor mounts, even the driveline vibration could have contributed.

after giving everything a good once over externally... I'm really hoping it could be primarily due to this.

4 years ago, I understood very little about metal/different kinds of them/stress-points/etc. 4 years ago, I also cut into this aluminum bellhousing with a grinder to make clearance for this bolt for my adapter plate to the H55f. My best guess is that's where it was really weakened and thus was the starting point of the crack. It's been weak forever I suppose, this over the past 3 years in combination with one of my motor mounts recently partially collapsing, on top of the extreme load I was towing through the mountains all combined together to make the perfect storm and crack my bellhousing. At least that is my theory as of right now. I also bet for sure that stuff isn't 100% centered and that definitely can't help anything as well.

As for what I'm gonna do about the crack: after I saw the price tag for a new clutch, pressure plate, throwout & pilot bearing. I am definitely not spending $600 on a bellhousing. Man, shipping costs a lot more on partsouq than the last time I ordered from them.

I called around to a bunch of different welding shops, all of which quoted me at $300-500 for a bellhousing tig repair. And after doing quite a bit of research online, it's definitely doable with a spool gun. Just gonna have to clean it extremely well, preheat a ton, and probably weld the same crack over like 5 times after grinding it out until I can finally have enough good base metal to make a strong weld with. Build up that area that I negligently ground down. After that, then I'll reinforce it with a plate, preferably on the inside if there's enough clearance in there for 3/16 or 1/8th inch aluminum. As for that top bolt I'll have to figure out a different way to secure it. Maybe just tap the existing hole?

I'm gonna throw the drivetrain into the Mercedes on Monday, then after that I'll take the trans out of the troopy to get a closer look. If the pilot bearing still feels good and nothing has a stupid amount of play in it, I'll call the adapter plates centered enough for my standards and not worry about redoing all of that stuff.

Still planning to hit the road across the US in this thing late August/early September. Before I take off I'd really like to get a better-sized turbo into it (which I have) and a plus would be power steering so it'll be easier for my lady to drive. Guess we'll see.

 

[bj70bc]

learning is expensive

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

learning is expensive

Learning is life rich as well. I swear by it literally and figuratively!

 

[FJBen]

learning is expensive

Owning a Land Cruiser is expensive.

 

[JuanJ]

Owning a Land Cruiser is expensive.

Hello,

Land Cruiser ownership implies a steady source of income.






Juan

 

[bj70bc]

Hello,

Land Cruiser ownership implies a steady source of income.






Juan

Thats why all the women come running when they see one ....

 

[Rigster]

Thats why all the women come running when they see one ....

And here I thought they were just looking for their mail!

 

[bj70bc]

And here I thought they were just looking for their male

fixed it for you

 

[robmobile73]

Weld it with a spoolgun and weld/reinforce alot. Carry on. If it goes another 2 years, just do it again. Don't overthink it. Your bolt may be the issue. You could trim it shorter or even use a drill or torch to clearance some aluminum from the bellhousing out of the way and reinforce all around the hole with a few passes of weld with the spoolgun. ........Nothing last forever, especially with swaps and fabrications.

 

[FJBen]

Try the weld fix on the bell housing.
Fix the motor mounts.
Send it.


Come visit us on the lake on your whirlwind cross country road trip.

 

[theglobb]

Threw the drivetrain into the merc, I picked them up as more of a passion project than to make money as I really do like these old mercs. However with all of the troopy drama and trying to have it road ready soon, I have found myself somewhat dreading this whole process and just trying to get it done with and probably sold ASAP

Went to put the radiator in and... it was gone. I left all the cooling system parts in 1 spot. I have every nut and bolt, A/C condenser, oil cooler, trans cooler lines, but the radiator is just gone? The whole radiator? I dont understand how I could loose something so big that I also didn't touch. There are much more valuable things to steal here than a 30 year old MB radiator? Still baffled. Anyways $200 later and a new rad is on the way.


Now for the Red Rocket stuff:
Dropped the trans and immediately noticed this...


The bolts were tight, honestly a little too tight if I'm being honest. hmmmmmmm. I wonder if this could have just happened due to stuff being thrown out of balance when the bellhousing cracked or if this has been happening for a while? Everyone of the bolts was worn in that way to varying different degrees.

Flywheel looked fine except for some marring from what I assume was the pressure plate shifting. Pilot bearing felt perfect no issues with it

Had some definite gear oil leaks from around the top cover where the shifter goes into, and from one of the transfercase selectors. I'm assuming there is some boot for the top cover that keeps the oil from slinging out, that is obviously missing. And maybe an o-ring or something is bad on the transfercase shifter. Haven't looked too deep into it.

As for that throughout bearing noise that I've been having for the past 3 years... now I'm not so sure its the bearing itself thats bad.


Well here lays the Red Rocket now, a familiar sight I must say. I'm heading to Asheville tomorrow as I have a buddy there whose dad is good at tig alum welding and he owes me tenfold for all the free labor I have given him over the past couple years. Will update as time goes on.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Owning a Land Cruiser is expensive.

Hello,

Land Cruiser ownership implies a steady source of income.






Juan

Yet somehow I still make by relatively cheap, in money that is... so much time and labor. Atleast the skills I've learned and am continuing to learn help me in all other sectors of life

Weld it with a spoolgun and weld/reinforce alot. Carry on. If it goes another 2 years, just do it again. Don't overthink it. Your bolt may be the issue. You could trim it shorter or even use a drill or torch to clearance some aluminum from the bellhousing out of the way and reinforce all around the hole with a few passes of weld with the spoolgun. ........Nothing last forever, especially with swaps and fabrications.

Thank you, sometimes you just need to hear the Robmobile advice to get on through and be just fine. You're right, it's not like I'm building a spaceship.

Try the weld fix on the bell housing.
Fix the motor mounts.
Send it.


Come visit us on the lake on your whirlwind cross country road trip.

I'll post more info on a route (I haven't even made one yet) once the troopy is put back together and in working order. I'm also working on a turbo swap for it along with fabricating all new exhaust out the back. And so many other small things that I'm sure will add up and be way more than I orignaly anticipated. Regardless, I am DEAD SET on hitting the road in this thing.

 

[Broski]

If you’re coming all the way out west. You know where to stay

 

[AirheadNut]

How long did you drive with the broken bell housing? To me it looks like the bolts have been wearing for a while, likely that is part of the noise you've been hearing. Is your clutch and pressure plate Toyota or Isuzu?

Hard to tell from the photos and video, is there significant wear on the tips of the fingers on the pressure plate? How do the springs in the clutch disc look? Any looseness on the input shaft bearing? Wear on the input shaft snout?

My adapter plate related clutch failures were a bit different but the misaligned pressure plate and wallowed out bolts and dowel pin holes leads me to suspect a similar culprit. In my case the clutches I use are specced for a gas V6, so the weak point is the disc rather than the pressure plate or its bolts. I also had a bronze pilot bushing at first instead of a bearing, so my bushing wore out before it totally destroyed the input shaft, though there was some wear. My input shaft bearing was shot after the second clutch.
Clutch 1:

Clutch 2:

 

[FJBen]

Chicken or egg right?

Im just guessing, but I think it's probably and alignment issue. Those bolts look like they've work for awhile

Am I correct in only seeing 1 alignment dowell pin on the flywheel? That could allow that pressure plate to shift. If there is 2, how was the fit? Are they loose or worn? I know on mine, I have to pry it off as the dowel pins are a snug fit to hold it.

Isuzu flywheel or toyota? same for pressure plate?

So a working theory by me....missing dowel pin or loose dowel pin allows pressure plate movement. That causes noise/chatter and vibrations maybe you thought and felt were throwout bearing. Time goes on it moves more and more. Possibly the grinded spot on the bellhousing is the weak spot and starts cracking due vibrations the bang, big fracture.


Edit: Looking at this photo here.

That looks like the only dowel, and it looks like it’s not the right size for the pressure plate. That would absolutely let that pressure plate move around. Especially if only 1 dowel.

With a new pressure plate, if that hole is too big for the dowel, you could maybe weld it shut, then grind flat and drill the right size hole for the dowel. And make sure it has 2 dowels

 

[FJBen]

I went back and see you are using Isuzu flywheel and pressure plate.

Adding again, you are for sure missing a dowel pin on the top here.

Your flywheel photo shows 2 when you sanded it.

I can only see 1 here. Its hard to see, but I'm wondering if the dowel pin holes were too large, that allowed the pressure plate to rotate and knock the dowel pin loose which allowed it to move even more.

Full conspiracy here....any impact marks on the inside of the bellhousing? Possible the dowel fell out, ricocheted and smacked the bellhousing? Loud rattle noises? The bell housing would show signs of it bouncing around.