QFT.
It's part of Alcan's job to request the information they require to build the springs. If they failed to ask for the information they needed, then the OP can't be blamed for not providing it.
Stay AWAY from ALCAN SPRING!!!!!!
- Thread starter alaskacreeker
- Start date
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QFT.
It's part of Alcan's job to request the information they require to build the springs. If they failed to ask for the information they needed, then the OP can't be blamed for not providing it.
i am going to call BS on that one...
i always as tons of questions when i am building a cruiser but i know plenty of shops that just do what the customer requests (since, in todays society, the customer is always right).
he phoned up, told them that he wanted springs to lift the 7000 lb van 2". a smart shopper would have weight each corner. a decent shop would have asked the questions but, unless it states so on the website, it is up to the customer to KNOW what he wants.
after reading this OP posts he comes across as a bit of a know-it-all so MAYBE he made a statement and they built accordingly.
all of us are making lots of assumptions, only the OP and Alcan know the real story.
his biggest mistake was not calling right away to complain instead of assuming and shipping them back, then contacting them 2 days later. pretty arrogant of him ...
i always as tons of questions when i am building a cruiser but i know plenty of shops that just do what the customer requests (since, in todays society, the customer is always right).
he phoned up, told them that he wanted springs to lift the 7000 lb van 2". a smart shopper would have weight each corner. a decent shop would have asked the questions but, unless it states so on the website, it is up to the customer to KNOW what he wants.
after reading this OP posts he comes across as a bit of a know-it-all so MAYBE he made a statement and they built accordingly.
all of us are making lots of assumptions, only the OP and Alcan know the real story.
his biggest mistake was not calling right away to complain instead of assuming and shipping them back, then contacting them 2 days later. pretty arrogant of him ...
No brainer. If you used a credit card then call your credit card company and request that you be refunded for the purchase as you we're sent a faulty product. You CC has a protection policy. This will cause serious headache for these guys as charge backs are expensive for the company.
Thats a step too far.
why ?
in my experience the CC company conducts an objective investigation and mediates between customer and vendor
given that communication between OP and vendor broke down, CC company may be able to mediate - if they find the vendor at fault, they negotiate a refund, if they find the customer at fault, he is SOL
Yep,
I had some custom springs (actually just a main leaf) for my 60 from Alcan. The exchange was clunky at best, but they owned up and worked with me on it. Based on that, I would probably work with them again, however, I have heard more than one complaint about them in recent history.
why ?
in my experience the CC company conducts an objective investigation and mediates between customer and vendor
given that communication between OP and vendor broke down, CC company may be able to mediate - if they find the vendor at fault, they negotiate a refund, if they find the customer at fault, he is SOL
Because if you file a chargeback the $ gets taken away until the issue is resolved.
The springs may not be perfect, but the OP still owns 150lbs of steel at Alcan's expense, so a chargeback isn't really the fair move.
The way I see it OP should be telling Alcan to fix the springs, but that he'll pay the shipping to get them back to him, as that was his mistake. Done, fair.
This all pretty much a dead point now.
The guy went and had other springs made by someone else already
And from the sound of what is going on here and the fact that the OP is not pursuing this more aggressively tells me that the OP fawked up.
This whole time crunch thing is BS, and is also part of the problem in that the OP did not do the proper work to get the right springs, a guesstimate of weight is not going to produce the right results, but Alcan on the other hand should have said they would not build the custom springs without the proper weight measurements either, they both sound like idiots to me
Because if he did the right thing and gave the right info and Alcan truely did mess up I know I would be pursuing this and working it out and or getting my money back, not going somewhere else and having springs made and just writing off the money paid for the other springs
I am sorry but the OP could not have handled this thing any worse regardless of what Alcan did or did not do.
The guy went and had other springs made by someone else already
And from the sound of what is going on here and the fact that the OP is not pursuing this more aggressively tells me that the OP fawked up.
This whole time crunch thing is BS, and is also part of the problem in that the OP did not do the proper work to get the right springs, a guesstimate of weight is not going to produce the right results, but Alcan on the other hand should have said they would not build the custom springs without the proper weight measurements either, they both sound like idiots to me
Because if he did the right thing and gave the right info and Alcan truely did mess up I know I would be pursuing this and working it out and or getting my money back, not going somewhere else and having springs made and just writing off the money paid for the other springs
I am sorry but the OP could not have handled this thing any worse regardless of what Alcan did or did not do.
agreed
Since I read this entire thread, I'll throw in my two cents. The OP didn't handle the situation as well as he should have; he admits that. Alcan's handling of it was just crap. We don't have all the information, but Alcan as the manufacture and expert is charged with obtaining the information they need to build the product. I would expect they would have a standard form for the customer to complete asking for the information (i.e. corner weights, usage, vehicle info, etc) necessary to build the requested product. I don't see that happened here; Alcan's fault. Alcan's response was piss poor; to say that they have no responsibility because the OP didn't call first to return them is simply pathetic. The springs didn't come close to working so they had to be sent back to be fixed. Alcan could have offered many solutions, a partial credit, a new set of springs, etc. To just say tough s*** is inexcusable in my book.
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It seems to me Alcan shipped springs that were designed wrong. Mistakes happen.
Its seems to me the fix was to send an Additional leaf and have a local shop install it on Alcans dime.
It seems to me the OP is responsible for shipping, since he took it on himself to do so.
In the end Alcan should fix the springs and the OP should pay the shipping.
What concerns me, is the fact Alcan is using a procedural error on the part of the buyer to wash its hands of its initial mistake.
I wouldn't do business with a company that is apparently so poorly capitalized it needs to pinch pennies in this manor. A thread like this could cost them more money than just taking the bull by the horns and fixing the issue, not because anyone is sure of their guilt, but because the potential pitfalls of not staying local are now glaringly apparent. Actions like this give me a red flag that my money may disappear in bankruptcy before i get a product with a satisfactory resolution.
Guilty or not, Alcan is exercising some poor judgement.
Its seems to me the fix was to send an Additional leaf and have a local shop install it on Alcans dime.
It seems to me the OP is responsible for shipping, since he took it on himself to do so.
In the end Alcan should fix the springs and the OP should pay the shipping.
What concerns me, is the fact Alcan is using a procedural error on the part of the buyer to wash its hands of its initial mistake.
I wouldn't do business with a company that is apparently so poorly capitalized it needs to pinch pennies in this manor. A thread like this could cost them more money than just taking the bull by the horns and fixing the issue, not because anyone is sure of their guilt, but because the potential pitfalls of not staying local are now glaringly apparent. Actions like this give me a red flag that my money may disappear in bankruptcy before i get a product with a satisfactory resolution.
Guilty or not, Alcan is exercising some poor judgement.
tried to stay away from this, but can't resist throwing in my 2c, since I've seen some comments I'm puzzled with:
- I don't like people posting in sites for the first time just to rant or complain
- buyer should have called first, no doubt
- I understand he may have been in a time crunch and had to move quick on having something installed. Perfectly understandable. Difficult timing is his problem, though. Personally, I would not have taken a chance on ordering something like that from far away.
- assuming the springs did not match perfectly the buyers stated specs:
unless Alcan could have fixed the springs where the springs were delivered, in a manner that's consistent with them delivering a fully-functional as-new-made product and in a short time, having the springs be sent back to them without buyer calling first does NOT absolve them from the responsibility of delivering a new custom-made product per the buyer's stated specs. In fact I think their response as seen above was flippant and not indicative of good customer support.
- assuming the springs did match perfectly the buyer's stated specs:
Alcan is under no obligation to do anything but it would be good business practice to try and help as much as is reasonable. I would not include paying a big sum to cover shipping expenses as to be expected in that, but I would have bent backwards to make the customer be satisfied.
Either way, this does not make me want to do business with Alcan, either they made poor springs or at best do not seem to care too much about their customer's satisfaction.
(all of this based only on what I've read above of course so who knows in real life...)
- I don't like people posting in sites for the first time just to rant or complain
- buyer should have called first, no doubt
- I understand he may have been in a time crunch and had to move quick on having something installed. Perfectly understandable. Difficult timing is his problem, though. Personally, I would not have taken a chance on ordering something like that from far away.
- assuming the springs did not match perfectly the buyers stated specs:
unless Alcan could have fixed the springs where the springs were delivered, in a manner that's consistent with them delivering a fully-functional as-new-made product and in a short time, having the springs be sent back to them without buyer calling first does NOT absolve them from the responsibility of delivering a new custom-made product per the buyer's stated specs. In fact I think their response as seen above was flippant and not indicative of good customer support.
- assuming the springs did match perfectly the buyer's stated specs:
Alcan is under no obligation to do anything but it would be good business practice to try and help as much as is reasonable. I would not include paying a big sum to cover shipping expenses as to be expected in that, but I would have bent backwards to make the customer be satisfied.
Either way, this does not make me want to do business with Alcan, either they made poor springs or at best do not seem to care too much about their customer's satisfaction.
(all of this based only on what I've read above of course so who knows in real life...)
in post 5 he allows us to read the last few emails back and forth
in post 26 he says "I'm sorry if I've offended you or came across as an a******, I promise I'm really not."
i have a feeling Alcan basically told him to suck it up due to a questionable attitude during the first part of the exchange. (reading between the lines)
as a company they do not have to return the springs back to him on their dime and they do not have to store them indefinately.
i am not sure what i would do if i was Alcan, part of me would like to add the needed leaf (leaves) and he pays to take them away. the other part says, want to be an ass - your loss. i guess Alcan went with the latter.
in post 26 he says "I'm sorry if I've offended you or came across as an a******, I promise I'm really not."
i have a feeling Alcan basically told him to suck it up due to a questionable attitude during the first part of the exchange.
(reading between the lines)as a company they do not have to return the springs back to him on their dime and they do not have to store them indefinately.
i am not sure what i would do if i was Alcan, part of me would like to add the needed leaf (leaves) and he pays to take them away. the other part says, want to be an ass - your loss. i guess Alcan went with the latter.
any pics of these "bad" springs?
- Thread starter
- #116
I've already posted pictures on page 6 that show the springs not holding the vehicle up.
As far as talking to someone "high up" at Alcan, I already have. The only person I've dealt with is the owner, and all he keeps repeating is "you didn't call me." I apologized 1,000 times and admitted my mistake, but he would never admit his mistake of not getting all the necessary information to build the spring correctly for me. I'm not the spring professional, he is, and I was never asked to get the rear axle weight or side-to-side weight, even though I specifically told him it was a motorhome. And the vehicle was already weighed (5,980 lbs will a full tank of gas & full water tank). I requested the springs be built for 7,000 lbs, because the vehicle will always be close to that weight after gear & people are loaded in.
Either way, I didn't call Alcan first, so they won't fix the brand new springs for me, unless I pay them $300 to fix them.
As far as talking to someone "high up" at Alcan, I already have. The only person I've dealt with is the owner, and all he keeps repeating is "you didn't call me." I apologized 1,000 times and admitted my mistake, but he would never admit his mistake of not getting all the necessary information to build the spring correctly for me. I'm not the spring professional, he is, and I was never asked to get the rear axle weight or side-to-side weight, even though I specifically told him it was a motorhome. And the vehicle was already weighed (5,980 lbs will a full tank of gas & full water tank). I requested the springs be built for 7,000 lbs, because the vehicle will always be close to that weight after gear & people are loaded in.
Either way, I didn't call Alcan first, so they won't fix the brand new springs for me, unless I pay them $300 to fix them.
I must chime in about Alcan Springs...
I ordered a custom 4" lift set of springs for my 74 FJ40. I asked for the springs to be made to support an additional 500 pounds due to my custom rear bumper. The cost was just over $1000. Long story short, the rear springs sagged, without the spare tire(33's) or jerry cans (see photo). After months of argumentative emails, Alcan finally paid to have the sagging springs shipped back to them for an "investigation".
A few weeks went by and I received another set of rear springs, which are WAY too short. They measure 38.5", center to center, see photo.
After a month of emails (most not answered) and phone calls, Alcan has finally agreed to send me another rear set of springs (as of 15 minutes ago). I'll report back when they arrive. I truly hope the news will be good!
The front Alcans springs are awesome! However, Alcans customer service sucks! I've owned a small business, providing custom ironwork for over 20 years... I fully understand mistakes are made. There's no profit in mistakes, communication is crucial!
There's my 2 cents...
I ordered a custom 4" lift set of springs for my 74 FJ40. I asked for the springs to be made to support an additional 500 pounds due to my custom rear bumper. The cost was just over $1000. Long story short, the rear springs sagged, without the spare tire(33's) or jerry cans (see photo). After months of argumentative emails, Alcan finally paid to have the sagging springs shipped back to them for an "investigation".
A few weeks went by and I received another set of rear springs, which are WAY too short. They measure 38.5", center to center, see photo.
After a month of emails (most not answered) and phone calls, Alcan has finally agreed to send me another rear set of springs (as of 15 minutes ago). I'll report back when they arrive. I truly hope the news will be good!
The front Alcans springs are awesome! However, Alcans customer service sucks! I've owned a small business, providing custom ironwork for over 20 years... I fully understand mistakes are made. There's no profit in mistakes, communication is crucial!
There's my 2 cents...
now there's a qualitative report. good luck.
from the photos of the motorhome it appears to me alcan very likely screwed up.
however, accidents happen and the true measure of a shop is whether they stand behind and fix their problems.
the op gave alcan a get out of jail free card by denying them a reasonable chance to fix the problem and just returning them immediately and claiming a refund. that is completely unreasonable when dealing with a custom made product like this. alcan was within its rights to deny a refund.
we really have no way of knowing how they would have handled this if given a fair chance.
it is a nice looking motorhome though.
however, accidents happen and the true measure of a shop is whether they stand behind and fix their problems.
the op gave alcan a get out of jail free card by denying them a reasonable chance to fix the problem and just returning them immediately and claiming a refund. that is completely unreasonable when dealing with a custom made product like this. alcan was within its rights to deny a refund.
we really have no way of knowing how they would have handled this if given a fair chance.
it is a nice looking motorhome though.