Stay AWAY from ALCAN SPRING!!!!!!

[Jetboy]

^^^^^ And then he would have sent them back.

You guys make it sound like only a genius would make a phone call as soon as an issue was realized, rather than send them back and contact them two days later.

By just sending them back, Alcan has NO PROOF that the springs were wrong. For all we know, the pics the OP posted are with the s***ty old springs that were on the rig when he bought it.

I've never said he shouldn't have called. I merely said that they would be going back either way, so to use the no-call as an excuse for not fixing improperly made springs is a bull s*** justification to avoid having to fix the problem.

ALCAN has the the springs. They have a tool to test spring compression rates. This isn't rocket science. All Alcan needs to do is actually test their springs and see if they are proper for the application. Simple. This story has been told about Alcan a number of times. This isn't the first, it won't be the last.

 

[titanpat57]

That's a cop out. Just plain and simple.

fine...

then what the hell does Alcan owe someone who purposely joins two separate forums that make up part of their customer base, and his first two post he trashes THEM, and then admits HE screwed up?!? It'd be a cold day in hell, he'd get any help, period. The only thing I might send him is some ketchup to make those springs a little tastier.

and I do agree Alcan has no responsibility here to respond...let AlaskaCraker live with the mess he created.

 

[bogus one]

From my thread in the 55 section:


[URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif"][/URL] 01-29-09, 04:32 PM #52 [URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/star/ss.gif"][URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/star/ss.gif"][/URL]bogus one[/URL]
High Desert Hillbilly



[URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/avatars/avatar22125_23.gif"][URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/avatars/avatar22125_23.gif"][/URL][/URL]

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Knee deep in meteor sh**
Posts: 1,180


Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloCruise [URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif"][URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif"][/URL][/URL]
Can you help me understand what errors were committed by who?

I am somewhat interested in Alcans, but don't want to go through what you are going through...


I think it was a lack of questions on both sides.

Obviously more research needed on my end, and a lack of "what about this" questions on his end.

I'm not bad-mouthing by any means. Jason seems to be a really good guy, the springs are obviously top quality, and I don't regret a thing.

__________________
'78 Pig with some gadgets, less rust & rock rash.
'65 FJ-40 - Father/Son project in boxes.
'79 Pig - Parted-out years ago (WHY??!!)
TLCA #4778

Are you pickin' up what I'm throwin' down?

All I need is my s***ty old Landcruiser. And this lamp.
[URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif"][/URL] [URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/buttons/report.gif"][URL="http://forumcdn.ih8mud.com/images/buttons/report.gif"][/URL]



And the results:



[/URL]

 

[Jetboy]

fine...

then what the hell does Alcan owe someone who purposely joins two separate forums that make up part of their customer base, and his first two post he trashes THEM, and then admits HE screwed up?!? It'd be a cold day in hell, he'd get any help, period. The only thing I might send him is some ketchup to make those springs a little tastier.

and I do agree Alcan has no responsibility here to respond...let AlaskaCraker live with the mess he created.

ALCAN owes him some properly made springs. How hard is this to figure out. ALCAN knows about this forum and this thread. The failure to respond speaks volumes.

 

[shoupe89]

How??

I'll say it again........

I had issues with my springs. Partly my fault, partly theirs. We both admitted our mistakes, and came to a mutually agreed upon solution.

NOT THAT DIFFICULT

Tossing away an issue over..."man this dude didn't call me before he sent these back" "I didn't see these springs installed on te rig in person since its in comifornia and not Colorado" "dude just sent pics of how they didn't work"

Finding a way out of a customers issue isn't the right approach...that's me as a vendor talking, not me as a customer. It's a poor business practice to just blow a customer off because they pissed you off or upset you. You're the vendor, you rise above it and try to resolve the issue. You made the product wrong, you remedy it.

Solution:
"Hey man, we expect a phone call or a heads up when there is an issue with our products...that way we can address the issue and find a solution."
"gee thanks guy, I know I should have called but I'm obviously immature and stressed and in a time crisis with poor time management skills. If you could fix them to spec and ship them back
to me that would be tremendous"

Even if the customer is a complete ass-hat...you've got a product to stand behind even if the customer is a tool box. That didn't happen here that I can see.

 

[shoupe89]

fine...

then what the hell does Alcan owe someone who purposely joins two separate forums that make up part of their customer base, and his first two post he trashes THEM, and then admits HE screwed up?!? It'd be a cold day in hell, he'd get any help, period. The only thing I might send him is some ketchup to make those springs a little tastier.

and I do agree Alcan has no responsibility here to respond...let AlaskaCraker live with the mess he created.

Prides a powerful thing...if its worth it to have pride in a dispute where you have some fault then by all means. Would impulse say..."f this guy, he's an ass hat" heck yeah it would..."but as a vendor...I can't say that...

That point has been overlooked. I still don't think Alcan owes a reply to this thread...

 

[trucruiser]

Shoupe I totally agree with you. But it seems there are too many emotionally involved (name calling and personal attacks) at this point to have any objective debate, you would think there is some spooning going on here.

I have said my .02cents.
Im out

 

[shoupe89]

Shoupe I totally agree with you. But it seems there are too many emotionally involved (name calling and personal attacks) at this point to have any objective debate, you would think there is some spooning going on here.

I have said my .02cents.
Im out

Who doesn't love a good spoon session...

I have a tendency to see both sides...it's a personal thing I need to work on...

 

[titanpat57]

ALCAN owes him some properly made springs. How hard is this to figure out. ALCAN knows about this forum and this thread. The failure to respond speaks volumes.

Honestly, I don't understand you..you keep insisting Alcan owes him springs, but HE got springs based on what he ordered.....Does Alcan owe him springs until Timmy finally gets his s*** together and orders them right??? How many sets is the cut off to make you happy...2-3-4-5?


I can only summize, but my money is when the alleged problem (and I'm going to say "alleged" because we only have one side of the story) presented itself, Timmy blew a gasket and said God only knows what to Alcan, but based on the fact he rushed on here and on ExPo to immediately trash them, I think Alcan smartened up and figured that out early on.

Is it possible that Alcan should do something?..maybe, maybe not....to me their silence puts the onus on one guy here.

 

[crushers]

no Jetgoof, where did i say Alcan was not at fault? reread my posts and you will see those that have had problems with alcan are just an anomaly
sadly, it seems, if he would have ordered the spring properly in the first case (or if Alcan would have asked for corner to corner weights) the original packs would have been more expensive by .. wait for it ... $300 (as per Alcan's email back to AC).
it is one of those pay me now or pay me later situations.
depending on the attitude of the purchaser a company might want to split the difference or they might not. Alcan decided not to.
so
for $300 to upgrade the springs and $350 for shipping AC could have the springs.

why does Alcan have to step into a poop flinging thread? they don't. i highly doubt that the Land Cruiser community keeps the doors open at that company. i don't think that Alcan would want to lose the business but 3 bad experiences isn't going to keep the LC community from purchasing.

you, my little land cruiser buddy, need to pick your fights better.

So you place no blame on Alcan? Even though it appears the springs were not suited to the application? Simply because he sent them back (which he would have had to anyway) without calling first? And Alcan has a history of s***ty customer service some history of saggy springs. (this isn't the first "Alcan springs were built wrong and they won't fix them" thread on Mud)

I can't see any reason why Alcan would need to defend themselves. What was I thinking?

 

[crushers]

no, the springs would not have had to be sent back. as posted earlier, an addition spring would be added to the pack. the shop could have done the install in Cali.
how do you think they would modify the pack even if they were sent back?

^^^^^ And then he would have sent them back.

You guys make it sound like only a genius would make a phone call as soon as an issue was realized, rather than send them back and contact them two days later.

By just sending them back, Alcan has NO PROOF that the springs were wrong. For all we know, the pics the OP posted are with the s***ty old springs that were on the rig when he bought it.

 

[crushers]

Alcan did offer to modify the springs ... for an additional $300.
the failure to respond speaks nothing

ALCAN owes him some properly made springs. How hard is this to figure out. ALCAN knows about this forum and this thread. The failure to respond speaks volumes.

 

[bogus one]

no, the springs would not have had to be sent back. as posted earlier, an addition spring would be added to the pack. the shop could have done the install in Cali.
how do you think they would modify the pack even if they were sent back?

You're right. My point was, once again, that the OP should have discussed the issue with them while the springs were on the truck, so they could get a better understanding of the situation and rectified accordingly.

 

[crushers]

Alcan didn't toss the issue away, they offered to fix it but the OP is too cheap to pay for the mod.
till we know the first part of the conversation we don't know what was said between Alcan and AC, AC should post up the rest of the email exchange...

Tossing away an issue over..."man this dude didn't call me before he sent these back" "I didn't see these springs installed on te rig in person since its in comifornia and not Colorado" "dude just sent pics of how they didn't work"

Finding a way out of a customers issue isn't the right approach...that's me as a vendor talking, not me as a customer. It's a poor business practice to just blow a customer off because they pissed you off or upset you. You're the vendor, you rise above it and try to resolve the issue. You made the product wrong, you remedy it.

Solution:
"Hey man, we expect a phone call or a heads up when there is an issue with our products...that way we can address the issue and find a solution."
"gee thanks guy, I know I should have called but I'm obviously immature and stressed and in a time crisis with poor time management skills. If you could fix them to spec and ship them back
to me that would be tremendous"

Even if the customer is a complete ass-hat...you've got a product to stand behind even if the customer is a tool box. That didn't happen here that I can see.

 

[re_guderian]

Great, three new guys to a four-month-old fight...

 

[shoupe89]

Alcan didn't toss the issue away, they offered to fix it but the OP is too cheap to pay for the mod.
till we know the first part of the conversation we don't know what was said between Alcan and AC, AC should post up the rest of the email exchange...

There is obviously missing pieces to this situation...
$300 seems reasonable but charging to fix an error is meh in my view. Charging freight is a given for return of the springs.

All in all the transaction didn't need to be posted openly as it was. I've done te same thing in te past as a warning to customers, far different situation than this one...and that company ended up folding due to spending customers money to keep the doors open and not on parts/labor on customers vehicles...mismanagement.

I dont expect this to impact Alcan significantly and I hope it doesn't.

-Nick-

 

[Jetboy]

Honestly, I don't understand you..you keep insisting Alcan owes him springs, but HE got springs based on what he ordered.....Does Alcan owe him springs until Timmy finally gets his s*** together and orders them right??? How many sets is the cut off to make you happy...2-3-4-5?


I can only summize, but my money is when the alleged problem (and I'm going to say "alleged" because we only have one side of the story) presented itself, Timmy blew a gasket and said God only knows what to Alcan, but based on the fact he rushed on here and on ExPo to immediately trash them, I think Alcan smartened up and figured that out early on.

Is it possible that Alcan should do something?..maybe, maybe not....to me their silence puts the onus on one guy here.

Their silence puts the onus on the guy here? The guy here has laid out a pretty solid case that Alcan sucks at making custom springs. A quick google search turning up a number of other past similar occurrences with Alcan lends to the credibility of the OP.

You say he got the springs he ordered. That appears to be something you've created entirely from your imagination. Nothing provided here supports that. It certainly appears that he DID NOT get springs that he ordered.

He called a professional spring maker to build a custom set. A professional in such a field should be knowledgeable about his products. He should know what to ask, what information is needed to make the proper springs, and how to do so. I have seen nothing to indicate that any question asked was answered incorrectly. If the springs are the ones on the vehicle are the ones Alcan sent, they are WAY off the mark.

Is it possible that Alcan built the springs to the specs he wanted, and the information was wrong? Sure. It's possible. If that's the case, Alcan can simply say:" He provided information indicating he needed x. We provided x. Here's a picture of them on a scale showing where they will sit with 2,000lbs on each leaf, his vehicle is heavier than he said." And that would end the discussion.

Based on the information provided, Alcan provided the wrong springs for the application. Alcan has the opportunity to correct any misinformation. They are choosing not to.

 

[Jetboy]

no, the springs would not have had to be sent back. as posted earlier, an addition spring would be added to the pack. the shop could have done the install in Cali.
how do you think they would modify the pack even if they were sent back?

Just like he did with the poster's landcruiser springs that didn't fit x2?

Sure, stick with the add a leaf fix if you'd like. Alcan probably could have just shipped a couple lift blocks and some long u-bolts right? A hack job is clearly not what the OP ordered.

 

[semlin]

so we have to decide whether to agree with jetboy or crushers?

why do i hear south park theme music?

 

[Rookie2]

I'd have to go with Jetboy on this one. Hinging this entire defense on the fact the OP sent the springs back before calling is quite ludicrous. So Alcan could have diagnosed the problem from 1000 miles away and magically fixed the spring? Or the OP is suppose to pay another shop to then fix the spring? You talk about Alcan taking no responsibility, wait until after another shop has messed with the spring. The ONLY way this is not Alcan's problem is if the springs can handle the load the OP specified. They should be able to check that pretty easily.