Spindle design - why are these different? (1 Viewer)

[Clint0511]

So, I'm in the process of a front axle rebuild. One of my spindles has a bushing with just grease grooves, the other has grease grooves and a needle roller bearing. I assume the non-bearing design is standard? Can I buy just the grease groove bushing?

Also, just a grievance against previous owner using rtv to seal driver's side during a rebuild... I think that spindle is the replacement. And a thanks to cruiser outfitters for getting the front axle rebuild kit out to me so quickly,

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

You now get needle bearing with all new spindles.

 

[shibubba]

As Phil said the one with the needle bearing is now standard. You can fit the updated needle bearing and brass bushing in the old style I believe. But cost, at least for me was too high almost cheaper to buy a whole spindle

 

[Clint0511]

Shibubba,

I agree. The spindle still looks good, as does the bushing. I'll probably just keep it as is for now. Pack it with all the grease and go...

I just wanted to make sure I didn't have some knockoff on one side. I see it's about 75 bucks for just the bushing on Norwalk Toyota's site.

 

[scrowley]

I prefer all brass. Nothing to break catastrophically. There is a company out there that sells the new brass bushings I believe.

 

[LandCruisinMy93]

As of a couple years ago you could still get new brass bushings from Toyota for the older style. I upgraded to new bushings and needle bearings as of a couple years ago and it didn't cost all that much.

 

[ajax1]

Cruiser outfitters sells the bushing I believe

 

[bloc]

P/N for the old bushing is 90381-33001 and doesn't seem to be superceded yet.. so maybe still available from toyota?

 

[OGBeno]

Yes still available from Toyota.

 

[sunrk]

Make sure you get the right length spindle's. 8/92 up ones with the ABS ring are 8 mm longer in the splined shaft that earlier non-ABS ones. I run longer ones (HDK brand) with Aisin hubs as that's all I could get a few yrs ago when I was doing my front axle and swivel hub rebuild. Had to cut a new c-clip groove in each but otherwise no problem. And they *do* fit inside Aisin hubs with no spacer required, providing the c-clip groove is made in the right place. However there are supposed to be Aisin hub spacers out there in the ether, but I've never found a supplier in Australia stocking them, or the protection rings that some people fit to their front driveline to protect their Aisin hubs from impact damage when off-road.

The needle roller bearing + brass bush spindle design is the better one but the bush-only design would be less troublesome out in the elements.

 

[greentruck]

You can fit the updated needle bearing and brass bushing in the old style I believe.

Would like to know if this is so. Been working on the truck and itshad some issue over the years. The DS spindle - I think - had something that fell into "the vat" -- at least I hope so, otherwise it ran without a bushing of any sort for the last decade or so at least since before we bought it - or maybe not, but I digress. Anyway, the new needle bearing and short bushing I have fit right in easily. That's why I think the old stuff went in "the vat" whether full bushing or the newer combo of bushing/bearng.

Took the PS apart, the one that's had issues. It's got a full brass bushing. It fit tightly but came out once cleaned up enough to get some traction it slipped out. When I went to drop the needle bearing in this spindle, oops!

So I thought that the two bushing designs were interchangeable, too, whether from reading it here or in other messages. Kind of wandering if this is an emery cloth exercise or what. The spindle is clean, bearing fresh out of the pack. Cheap micrometer showed about .015 difference, bearing being bigger because that's the problem. Maybe just misboxed part? That's a lots of emery cloth I'm thinking...

The take-out bushing looks OK. Thought I had a spare, but I don't know, it's been a long time ago right after we bought the truck and I had t stock up with stuff to straighten out the issues we had with our original reliance on someone else to service the vehicle. So maybe that's the new one I thought we had in there. Gonna put it back in I guess, just wondering what is going on...?

Same spindle or not between the needle bearing design and the older plain bushing?
Or just some weird part issue?

Like to figure this out so I can standardize on the same one on both sides I've read bth ways, don't worry about it too much until I ran into this issue and would eventually like to get the truck s it's predictable when I tear it down.

 

[Clint0511]

I didn't pull the bushings. I blasted it clean with mineral spirits, repacked, and installed. I did swap birfield from one side to the other. 15k miles and still running great...

 

[Tools R Us]

I prefer all brass. Nothing to break catastrophically. There is a company out there that sells the new brass bushings I believe.

Agree 100%. IIRC, Cruiser Outfitters can supply new spindle with a bushing.

 

[greentruck]

Umm, yeah, I'd just like to figure out what parts I need to buy in the future. From what I've read, even though I;ve got a 97 it may have an earlier spiindle on the PS that won't fit the needle bearing. Maybe that's what I want in the DS, too,, so I might be looking for a spindle to match the "wrong" one and just use bushings, old school.

 

[LINUS]

I prefer all brass. Nothing to break catastrophically. There is a company out there that sells the new brass bushings I believe.

+1

No moving parts is a huge benefit IMO.
Like how just keeping your fan clutch healthy saves having a full electric/thermostat fan setup.

KISS ftw.

 

[scottryana]

Yeah I don't know, it appears to have been made as part of the improvements of the 105. I don't think Toyota would have started adding needle roller bearings arbitrarily. I am sure they are more expensive than plain bushings.

+1

No moving parts is a huge benefit IMO.
Like how just keeping your fan clutch healthy saves having a full electric/thermostat fan setup.

KISS ftw.

 

[nukegoat]

Yeah I don't know, it appears to have been made as part of the improvements of the 105. I don't think Toyota would have started adding needle roller bearings arbitrarily. I am sure they are more expensive than plain bushings.

I find it amusing that some people sell uhmw bushings as an upgrade to replace the dana 60 spindle needle bearings.

 

[Tools R Us]

Yeah I don't know, it appears to have been made as part of the improvements of the 105. I don't think Toyota would have started adding needle roller bearings arbitrarily. I am sure they are more expensive than plain bushings.

Likely more expensive, that means nothing to me. Don't know why they changed it, maybe a bit quieter? Don't care about most of the stuff in newer Toyotas, the Prius is way tech, don't want any of it in my Cruiser. This setup is similar to the IFS rigs, possibly it was done for consistency among models, less parts to stock?

The application is slow speed, has no need for precision, perfect for a bushing and well proven by almost 50yrs of use. A needle bearing can never be as bomb proof as a simple bushing, even with pretty extreme abuse a bushing will still work, are unlikely to strand, disable the rig.

The bearing setup is relatively new, but we have seen two fail on Cruisers, both the mini bushing coming apart. Worked on an IFS one, (IIRC 4Runner) RF noise and random lockup. The needle bearing was dry, come apart, ruined the spindle, almost cut the CV shaft in half. Not what I want on the Cruiser, especially when I don't see any conceivable advantage. Maybe it's how I use the rig, but will take bomb proof over tech every time.

This bushing was run totally bone dry, 300mi non stop at highway speed, and more at around town speed and was still drivable, likely could reuse it. My guess, a needle bearing would not have ended as well, don't recommend running dry, but things happen and i will take the durability.

 

[LINUS]

Yeah I don't know, it appears to have been made as part of the improvements of the 105. I don't think Toyota would have started adding needle roller bearings arbitrarily. I am sure they are more expensive than plain bushings.

At least we each know who NOT to PM if either of us torches a bushing.

Neither of us is going to hoard bushings the other wants, so win - win.

 

[greentruck]

Well, OK, folks do like to talk about their bushings. I'm personally leaning towards going with the solid bushing over the needle bearing. Can't do that until I figure what hub I need to replace the needle bearing one.

Same as the one apparently refitted onto the PS already? In other words, the part I have isn't misboxed or anything, I just don't have the spindle that it matches on that side (althdugh I do on the other side.)

Fits just the same otherwise?

Part #? (or at least which years the different spindle was used, so I know what to ask for since I can't just ask for the part by VIN/build date.)

I suspect we finally answered the original question here. Yes, it seems like there are different spindles used on the 80.