No start - weird electrical problem (3 Viewers)

[canman]

So, removed the battery isolator from the vehicle electrical system. Wired everything up as per factory setup with just the main/starter battery. Still have same issue. Turn key to POS #3, and nada. All electrical dies. I guess next is checking, pulling, testing the starter.

 

[canman]

Have the starter a few taps, did a “reset” (disconnect battery momentarily) and tried starting. Same result. Will pull starter after lunch.

 

[canman]

Pulled the starter. Reconnected the main battery, and turned key to POS #3. No issues. Electrics remain alive! So, I’m guessing it’s the starter at this point, or at least something exclusive to that circuit. Going to test the starter after I have a bite to eat. I think, back in the day, I may have bought the rebuild kit. Will check tomorrow.

 

[canman]

Tested starter and it works fine, so it must be something else unless maybe it was stuck/shorted. Going to jerry-rig it up to the factory wires without installing it to see if I have same issue.

 

[canman]

Success!!!

Jerry-rigged starter to the factory connectors. Starter works and no dead electrics! Although, a couple times I could hear it click and not spin, but it could just be my jerry-rigged wiring. Will disassemble starter tomorrow and just do an inspection and checking. Holy hell! What an odyssey!

 

[doc_random]

I don't see the heavy gauge ground cable that should attach to the engine block. I only see the light gauge wire going to the left front quarter panel. The heavy cable should come through the hole in the battery enclosure right behind the negative terminal. This will give you a large resistance to ground from the starter. The click is the solenoid engaging which would then try to dump 50amps through the starter and back to ground but it can't flow.
Out of the vehicle you have a large gauge jumper cable providing ground.

 

[canman]

I don't see the heavy gauge ground cable that should attach to the engine block. I only see the light gauge wire going to the left front quarter panel. The heavy cable should come through the hole in the battery enclosure right behind the negative terminal. This will give you a large resistance to ground from the starter. The click is the solenoid engaging which would then try to dump 50amps through the starter and back to ground but it can't flow.
Out of the vehicle you have a large gauge jumper cable providing ground.
View attachment 3393570

Maybe. I’ve had this system installed I think since 2010/11. IIRC I mimicked the gauge coming from the original wire, but will double check and maybe replace as you suggested as I have lots of larger gauge wire lying around.

 

[ToyotaDon]

I don't see the heavy gauge ground cable that should attach to the engine block. I only see the light gauge wire going to the left front quarter panel. The heavy cable should come through the hole in the battery enclosure right behind the negative terminal. This will give you a large resistance to ground from the starter. The click is the solenoid engaging which would then try to dump 50amps through the starter and back to ground but it can't flow.
Out of the vehicle you have a large gauge jumper cable providing ground.
View attachment 3393570

This could definitely be your problem. It would actually be much more than 50 amps, and could be as much as 300 amps or more.

The only other thing to check (and hopefully not the problem), is whether the engine can even turn over. You should take a breaker bar and socket to the crank pulley bolt and make sure.

 

[ToyotaDon]

Maybe. I’ve had this system installed I think since 2010/11. IIRC I mimicked the gauge coming from the original wire, but will double check and maybe replace as you suggested as I have lots of larger gauge wire lying around.

It's not going to be replacing that wire, but will be finding the wire which should be connected to the engine block.

 

[doc_random]

This is the stock negative terminal. Ignore the blue arrow. The large wire drops down past the charcoal cannister and ends up below the oil filter. It bolts to the block forward of the starter.

Maybe you had a ground to the block=starter through the 2nd battery setup and now it is not there?

 

[canman]

I was pretty anal about the whole dual battery setup. I’m sure I have the proper ground from the engine to the frame/ chassis but will check all wires since it has been a while.

 

[canman]

Not looking good. Might have some new contacts lying around.

 

[canman]

No new contacts but found the old ones and the old plunger.

 

[canman]

Cleaned up the copper ring surface on the plunger using a cordless drill and file.

 

[canman]

The old contacts aren’t too bad. Purchased them in 2010! Lol!
Watched a YT vid from a guy in SA, and he says the smaller contact always wears out more/faster than the larger which makes sense. He added a thin spacer (0.5 mm) to push the contact closer to the centreline to get a bit more contact area. Not really going to make a huge difference IMHO just based on the shear size difference of the two contacts. Will file them down to get them even.

 

[canman]

These two actually look fairly even with wear after degreasing them a bit. Not bad after 13 yrs of use!

 

[mudgudgeon]

These two actually look fairly even with wear after degreasing them a bit. Not bad after 13 yrs of use!

View attachment 3394453

They look OK, still serviceable IMHO. I've previously taken them out and found them eroded to almost nothing

 

[canman]

Well, after cleaning/filing flat both contacts nothing now works. Tested the starter as before jerry-rigged to the vehicle. Would work several times, but then noticed the solenoid didn’t engage a few times. Decided to check the contacts again. One was a bit crooked. Straightened it out. Reassembled, and still no solenoid action. Checked continuity as well when manually pushing in the solenoid between the two contacts. Had continuity. When just hooked up to another spare battery I have, solenoid still won’t engage. If I pull it out with my hand it will stay out/engaged, but doesn’t have sufficient power to do it on its own. The spare battery is down to 12.7V, and the starter battery is down to 12.5V. Will charge both back up overnight, but I think I will order a new starter tormorrow.

 

[canman]

Checked things out again this morning and noticed I had forgotten to install the two Philips screws that secure the brush cage to the end cap. D’oh! The brush cage wasn’t aligned with the thru holes in the end cap. Reassembled everything, and it works as it should on the spare battery. Noticed as well the starter must have been rebuilt at one point as it is painted black. I might have gotten it rebuilt sometime after 2010.

 

[canman]

This just gets weirder. When the starter is jerry-rigged to the vehicle, solenoid engages, but motor doesn’t spin. Checked starter battery voltage in vehicle after letting it charge overnight, and it reads 13.1V. Put starter back on spare battery, and both solenoid and motor work.