New Here and have a Question about Clutches and Slave Cylinders (1 Viewer)

[Bucketdog827]

Hey yall,
I am going to start this off by saying I am not a mechanic and most of what I do know is based of looking stuff up on the internet to try and figure things out. I have a manual 91 toyota pickup with a 22re engine thats got a recurring problem: my stick keeps getting stuck while im driving to the point where I have to pull over turn the truck off and shift gears then turn it back on. it gets more frustrating because this happens only sometimes. I can be driving it when its doing that, then park the truck and come back later and it drives fine for a good while. The clutch pedal goes all the way in but the stick wont go into gear, particularly 1st 2nd and reverse (makes a horrible noise when I try to put it in reverse). I have taken it to a mechanic that Ive been going to for a couple years, and he put new slave cylinders on it and said to put brake fluid in it. Doing this didnt really fix the problem and the brake fluid doesnt seem to be leaking or running out fast so that seemed like kind of a pointless solution. I really dont want to ruin my clutch or my shifter (put a new clutch in within the past year), but when I drive it and all of a sudden it starts getting stuck I can feel it grinding around if I try to force it into gear. Id like to take it back to this mechanic guy but I don't want to go in blind and not having any idea what might be wrong. If anyone has ever had this happen or has any suggestions on resources/videos/ anything please let me know and I really really appreciate it : )
-K

 

[muddpigg]

Could be in hydraulics or clutch assemble. Something is preventing the clutch from fully disengaging to allow synchros in tranny to match gears so they can shift smoothly. Will cause damage to tranny if not fixed.

 

[KLF]

When he installed the new slave cylinder, did he do a full bleed? Seems odd that he would ask you to add brake fluid, this should be part of the installation. He would also need to bench bleed the master cylinder.

 

[corax]

As has been said already, sounds like your clutch isn't disengaging. Could be as simple as bleeding air out of the clutch hydraulic system, but that wouldn't explain why it only happens some times.
I had a similar problem when the springs in my clutch disc broke and were intermittently keeping the clutch from actually disengaging.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

My thoughts in order: Air in the lines, worn out master cylinder, mechanical problem with the clutch itself.

Next time it does not want to shift, pump the clutch pedal 3 or 4 times in a row and then try. If it shifts then, then my money would be on a bad master cylinder.

Welcome to Mud!

 

[Mudder]

It could be the rubber hose as well.

 

[Bucketdog827]

thank you so much for all the info! Ive been feeling kindof alone with this problem and I brought it back to the guy this morning. He asked me all he same questions ("did you check the brake fluid" "notice any leaking" etc...) and I just don't know what to think... I get the vibe like he's irritated to have to go back over his work again, but its just not right and I know theres something else going on. Is it possible to have put on two bad rounds of slave/master cylinders in a row? I was doing a little digging and does anyone think it could be a cracked clutch bracket? When I mentioned this to him and asked if that could be a possibility he got really defensive and swore up and down that it had nothing to do with that, but its just grinding so much. About two years ago the same guy put a new clutch in along with a new engine altogether (it was either buy a crappy car i hated with other mystery problems or drop another engine into the truck I love) Im just hoping its something simple to replace. He was describing that fluid could be getting past some valve and possibly causing the problem but i didnt really understand what he was saying. I like learning about this stuff and figuring it out, ive got a long way to go before i can do it myself though lol.

 

[Bucketdog827]

Could be in hydraulics or clutch assemble. Something is preventing the clutch from fully disengaging to allow synchros in tranny to match gears so they can shift smoothly. Will cause damage to tranny if not fixed.

that would not be good, trying to figure it out this morning, the mechanic said hes going to look it all over but he seemed really averse to agreeing it could be something to do with the actual clutch. im worried about damage thats already been done, because this has been going on and off for about a month

 

[Bucketdog827]

My thoughts in order: Air in the lines, worn out master cylinder, mechanical problem with the clutch itself.

Next time it does not want to shift, pump the clutch pedal 3 or 4 times in a row and then try. If it shifts then, then my money would be on a bad master cylinder.

Welcome to Mud!

what would your money be on if i did that and it didnt shift? i did try that and it still wouldnt shift easily : (

 

[Bucketdog827]

As has been said already, sounds like your clutch isn't disengaging. Could be as simple as bleeding air out of the clutch hydraulic system, but that wouldn't explain why it only happens some times.
I had a similar problem when the springs in my clutch disc broke and were intermittently keeping the clutch from actually disengaging.

is the clutch disc the same as the clutch bracket? (i know this might be a dumb question but when i was trying to research a bit thats something that came up as a possibility to explain why it only happens sometimes)

 

[Bucketdog827]

When he installed the new slave cylinder, did he do a full bleed? Seems odd that he would ask you to add brake fluid, this should be part of the installation. He would also need to bench bleed the master cylinder.

i can only hope and assume he did, i thought it was a little wierd/janky that he would suggest i do that to combat a problem too. I am a woman and I don't claim to know a lot about cars but I'm not a total idiot... I had to really press the guy to convince him something was still wrong after he fixed it the firs time, and now here we are, two master/slave cylinders later. When I brought it back to him today he suggested it was two bad parts in a row and I got a wierd feeling about it but what do i friggin know? haha

 

[muddpigg]

As a father of three daughters it pisses me off the flak females get. Makes my old knuckle dragging habits come out.

If you were in my area i’d Offer to look at it for you but not many old yotas in upstate NY. Might be time to find a new mechanic. I even have an extra tranny sitting on the floor of my garage.

I’ll caution you in regular parts store clutches. Even if you don’t Offroad it is worth extra cash to buy Aisin kit.

This could even he an adjustment issue with the master cylinder push rod. Which if you have simple tools and a set of fingers I can walk you through it. With FaceTime/WhatsApp/..... I can show you on my truck and you can do work. I do this with a buddy for my VW. Just pm number.

 

[pappy]

Even if you don’t Offroad it is worth extra cash to buy Aisin kit.

This same advice goes for clutch masters and slaves.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Two bad parts in a row is getting a little long in the odds.....

A master cylinder is just a tube full of fluid that is being pushed by a piston. Imagine a syringe if it helps. The piston goes down and the fluid comes out the hole at the end. If the seals around the piston are leaking, the fluid can move around the piston and the piston is not moving as much fluid as it should. If you pump the clutch pedal a few times this will sometimes help the seals to "grab" a little more fluid and disengage the clutch a little more to make shifting easier. That was my meaning behind that.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

There are a few GA clubs listed in the clubhouse section here. Maybe you could find a local Toyotaholic to take a look? There are a lot of great people in the Toyota world. As some of these guys have said; if you were near by I'd stop and take a look for you as well!

North American Clubhouses - East Region | IH8MUD Forum

As far as the broken bracket goes, just take a look up under the dash with a flashlight and see where the clutch pedal mounts to the bracket. If it's broken it should be pretty obvious as you move the pedal back and forth.

 

[jgranthevagrant]

Yes, I have seen the bracket cause these symptoms. Worth a look.

 

[Dedtruk]

Start with the simple/easy stuff (don't let your imagination run amok) and the last stuff/part/system that was worked on. That's usually where the trouble is, the last stuff that was worked on.

In my experience, if your slave goes, your master cylinder isn't far behind. Try a little observation/diagnosis first: Look at the firewall in the engine compartment, below the master cylinder. Feel around the bottom of the master cylinder for leaking fluid. If you find anything but aren't sure you have an active leak, clean it up and go for a drive. If you have a leak, it will reveal itself.

Next, look on the firewall on the inside of the truck, in the cab, up behind the pedals. You may see fluid leaking there. If so, replace the master, and be sure to bleed the system completely afterward. And clean up all that brake fluid ASAP, it eats paint! If you do have to replace parts, use Toy OEM parts where possible, and replace both master and slave at once. Use vendors here on Mud to source your parts or Toyota Parts Deal online. Since the slave was already replaced, it could be that it overwhelmed a tired master cylinder and now the master needs to be replaced. Don't bother rebuilding them, it isn't worth it. AS someone else suggested, look at the rubber line by the slave cylinder. If yours is ancient, cracked, funky, replace it. Bottom line: You have to eliminate leaks or weak "links" in the system one-by-one.

More likely, since your mechanic told you to add brake fluid, he probably didn't get all the air out of the system or neglected to adjust linkage (rarely necessary, but ...). If he did adjust, make sure your mech adjusted linkage per the Factory Service Manual (FSM). Check Craigslist, people occasionally sell FSMs! Yes, I know your truck is a '91, the pics below are just examples. And the principles haven't changed between 1985 and 1991.

If you don't see anything leaking, then start here. Re-bleed the entire system, starting with the master, bench bleeding it if necessary (although it often isn't - the brake system works on the same principles and isn't so forgiving, there, you bench bleed!). Move on the adjusting linkage. Shifting still funky?

OK, if you've eliminated the master, the slave, all the metal and rubber lines, and no leaks, and your clutch pedal linkage is adjusted correctly ... How many miles do you have on this truck/transmission? You said you had the clutch replaced about a year ago and the truck drove fine after that? It could be your shifter handle (where it goes into the transmission) is worn to the point were it is giving you hard shifting, but you mention grinding gears, which points more to the clutch not engaging/disengaging, which points to the master/slave/linkage bit above. If that's not it, and the synchros in the trans aren't worn out (possible if you have a gazillion miles on the truck) then it's time to start thinking worn out pilot bearing (whoever did the clutch should have replaced the pilot bearing!) or possibly a funky throw-out bearing hub ... I have to pull the trans out of my '88 PU because like an idiot, I saw it was worn but didn't replace it when I did the trans ... Now it has to come out all over again ... Fun.

Again, look to simple stuff before you imagine all kinds of horrible disasters like a disintegrating clutch plate, defective pressure plate, bad trans synchros, and other bigger jobs. Bleed the whole system. Oh, be sure you have the correct grade and quantity of gear oil in your trans. Yes, I've seen that cause the symptoms you describe. Adjust linkage. Be systematic, eliminate one thing at a time. Get an FSM or a Haynes manual. Avoid Chilton's. They're crapola. Haynes is surprisingly good. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

 

[PAToyota]

This is the clutch fork and pivot ball off my NV4500. The ball on the left is the old one compared to a new one on the right. I experienced a lot of questionable shift action before the pivot ball finally fully punched through the fork.

Drop the transmission and take a look at the internals.

 

[Dedtruk]

What PAToyota said. I'm replacing the clutch fork and fork support ball (and boot and anything else that even looks suspicious cuz this isn't a fun job) on my '88 mini when I go in to replace the throwout bearing hub. But before you go to all the trouble of dropping the trans and TC (a lot of work), eliminate the easy stuff. If the easy stuff doesn't solve your problem, then at least you have narrowed the issues.

 

[PAToyota]

You should be able to get some view of the fork through the boot opening or you can get one of these USB borescopes to stick in there and take a look.