- Thread starter
- #101
Oh wow those shots are fantastic!
Build Keeping another on the road- My Blue 1986 FJ60 Build
- Thread starter Willard
- Start date
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Dave, if you ever get the chance you should google Green Lakes Trail Head. It's just north of Pinedale and has great camping areas. If you have the opportunity then you can pack in from the trail head to a multitude of locations. Square Top Mountain is one we've been to many times. Great expedition as well if you get the opportunity to go up there. The shot of my son fishing.(at the trail head)...you'll see Squaretop in the center just past the lake. The other picture is my son on top of Square top. I'm telling you...Absolutely an awesome place that not too many people ever see. Not sure why the pics duplicated so many times. Apologize about that. My tech skills are kinda low and i'm actually on my laptop right now. Generally do MUD via my cell phone. thanks again. Jim
Hojack
♠️Project Snowball❄️
How could anyone live in a location without mountains... they are so awesome.
Even desert mountains will do just fine, especially with snow blanketing them. These are the Organ Mountains in Southern New Mexico:
A good friend and I climbed the peak on the very far right, although not in snow. It's known as The Wedge.
Hojack
♠️Project Snowball❄️
Very cool. Ever in Oregon and want to climb let me know.
And here's another New Mexico gem, the Brazos Cliffs in Northern New Mexico. The large formation on the right is also known as The Wedge. I also climbed it (one of the ridges on the right face of The Wedge). I especially like the name of that climbing route - Wicked Ridge of the Wedge. We climbed it in mid-September when all the aspens had turned to a brilliant gold.
There are a lot of nice routes on the main cliffs on the left side of the photo. My friend and I climbed one of those routes, my favorite, at 14 full pitches. It also has an interesting name - Resignation Ridge. The climbers who first established the route in August 1974 had climbed it, but hadn't named the route by the time they got home, when they learned President Nixon had resigned from office, hence the name.
There are a lot of nice routes on the main cliffs on the left side of the photo. My friend and I climbed one of those routes, my favorite, at 14 full pitches. It also has an interesting name - Resignation Ridge. The climbers who first established the route in August 1974 had climbed it, but hadn't named the route by the time they got home, when they learned President Nixon had resigned from office, hence the name.
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- Thread starter
- #107
All fantastic. We have mountains (well hills) here in Virginia and West Virginia, But they are just not the same as the Rockies/ west coast mountain ranges.
I think a trip out west is now in order. This will be a big trip (3 weeks at least) so I will have a lot of time as well I hit 50 next year so it has 2 meanings for me.
Labrador is cool but the pictures here and seeing the areas around Pinedale here and in other pictures have solidified the trip.
Now is the task of designing the route with my ultimate destination being close to the west coast of BC. So far I am showing 97 hours of just driving. So I will have to make some changes and look at the route to see what I can remove or adjust.
Driving from VA to WY is the longest part. If I ad anywhere in CO in there (and I will) it will add about 10 hours and well worth it in my opinion.
I may have to cut parts of BC out but Coldstream is a must as I am going to visit family.
I think a trip out west is now in order. This will be a big trip (3 weeks at least) so I will have a lot of time as well I hit 50 next year so it has 2 meanings for me.
Labrador is cool but the pictures here and seeing the areas around Pinedale here and in other pictures have solidified the trip.
Now is the task of designing the route with my ultimate destination being close to the west coast of BC. So far I am showing 97 hours of just driving. So I will have to make some changes and look at the route to see what I can remove or adjust.
Driving from VA to WY is the longest part. If I ad anywhere in CO in there (and I will) it will add about 10 hours and well worth it in my opinion.
I may have to cut parts of BC out but Coldstream is a must as I am going to visit family.
- Thread starter
- #108
So one of the worse things I have done on this project was keep a running tab of the cost for parts on the 60.
If I include the price I paid for the 60, I have hit the 20K mark actually it is closer to 22K. At this point, paint has not been done as well some minor things. None of this includes the spares, or other items I decided not to install.
I am at a point where I need to decide on what to do. 22K is a chunk of change for sure.
Let’s put this into perspective.
The price of the 60 was decent. I basically got a fairly good shell with a decent frame (could use the C-channels, but I have the repair kit for them) a rebuilt long block, new radiator, new clutch, rebuilt front axle (not 3rd), including new disk, and calipers.
Since then,
I have completely replaced the AC with the exception of the lines
Had the rear 3rd rebuilt
Rebuilt and installed a Full floater rear axle
Rebuilt the rear drive shaft
Replaced the complete suspension
Redid the seats covers
New Carpet
iValult Center Console
Installed OEM Toyota shoulder belts
Fix the rust in the rear quarters with patch panels from Trail-Tailor
Redid the entire cooling system, replacing all hoses, thermostat, water pump, fan clutch, etc
Replaced the rear upper tailgate with a non-rusted one
Installed a radio
Installed the ARB up front
Installed the Dobinson rear bumper
Installed a Long Range Automotive 38 gallon tank
New fuel sender
5x 32” new tires and non us wheels
New fuel pump
New starter
Mean Green 150 amp alt (have the OEM one and all brackets still)
Rebuilt carb by Jim C
Installing a H55f
Rebuilt the front drive shaft
New rear brakes including wheels cylinders, drums and springs.
New GM charcoal canister.
Installed stainless long brake lines
New Odyssey battery
New Tire rod ends (555)
New Tie rod and drag link
New power steering pump
Rebuilt PS gearbox
New wiper linkage
4-Runner wiper upgrade
New Apron seals
New Catalytic converter
New Man-A-Fre cat back 2.5” exhaust
Now let’s compare this to a 1970 Chevelle I rebuilt.
The Chevelle I bought for about the same dollar amount. It had a crate motor and a new intake and carb.
It needed rust repair, which was done
Replaced the 4 wheel drums with new disks
Replaced the exhaust
Had the Trans rebuilt
Installed AC
New dash pad
New lower dash (converted from single sweep gauge to muti gauge)
Installed a set of Steward Warner custom gauges and wiring.
Redid the head liner
Redid the seats
Redid the carpet
Changed the shifter
Redid the trunk and liner
Por 15 all floors
Redid placed the hood, fenders and front valance
New radio
New Antenna
New mirror
New door cards
New kick panels
New rear view mirror
New gas tank
Replaced the door
New Stainless exhaust and ceramic long tube headers
Rebuilt rear end
Rebuilt front end
New shocks
Plus more I am sure I am forgetting
Plus a damn good paint job.
All in all I was in this for 14K and it was painted. I sold it for close to 20K, something I will never see from my 60.
Looking back at this sheet and now what I have spent on the 60 I am getting to the point where I may just cut my loss and say goodbye. I still have paint, a new windshield and all window seals to do (have the seals) Plus I am sure some other smaller things.
The 22K was a shock and hard to swallow. I really like my 60 and I am figuring it will go on one last trip with me but after that it will be looking for a new home. I just cannot justify spending one more dollar on a vehicle that I am so upside down on. Hell I can buy another Chevelle or a GTO for a touch more that is restored.
If I include the price I paid for the 60, I have hit the 20K mark actually it is closer to 22K. At this point, paint has not been done as well some minor things. None of this includes the spares, or other items I decided not to install.
I am at a point where I need to decide on what to do. 22K is a chunk of change for sure.
Let’s put this into perspective.
The price of the 60 was decent. I basically got a fairly good shell with a decent frame (could use the C-channels, but I have the repair kit for them) a rebuilt long block, new radiator, new clutch, rebuilt front axle (not 3rd), including new disk, and calipers.
Since then,
I have completely replaced the AC with the exception of the lines
Had the rear 3rd rebuilt
Rebuilt and installed a Full floater rear axle
Rebuilt the rear drive shaft
Replaced the complete suspension
Redid the seats covers
New Carpet
iValult Center Console
Installed OEM Toyota shoulder belts
Fix the rust in the rear quarters with patch panels from Trail-Tailor
Redid the entire cooling system, replacing all hoses, thermostat, water pump, fan clutch, etc
Replaced the rear upper tailgate with a non-rusted one
Installed a radio
Installed the ARB up front
Installed the Dobinson rear bumper
Installed a Long Range Automotive 38 gallon tank
New fuel sender
5x 32” new tires and non us wheels
New fuel pump
New starter
Mean Green 150 amp alt (have the OEM one and all brackets still)
Rebuilt carb by Jim C
Installing a H55f
Rebuilt the front drive shaft
New rear brakes including wheels cylinders, drums and springs.
New GM charcoal canister.
Installed stainless long brake lines
New Odyssey battery
New Tire rod ends (555)
New Tie rod and drag link
New power steering pump
Rebuilt PS gearbox
New wiper linkage
4-Runner wiper upgrade
New Apron seals
New Catalytic converter
New Man-A-Fre cat back 2.5” exhaust
Now let’s compare this to a 1970 Chevelle I rebuilt.
The Chevelle I bought for about the same dollar amount. It had a crate motor and a new intake and carb.
It needed rust repair, which was done
Replaced the 4 wheel drums with new disks
Replaced the exhaust
Had the Trans rebuilt
Installed AC
New dash pad
New lower dash (converted from single sweep gauge to muti gauge)
Installed a set of Steward Warner custom gauges and wiring.
Redid the head liner
Redid the seats
Redid the carpet
Changed the shifter
Redid the trunk and liner
Por 15 all floors
Redid placed the hood, fenders and front valance
New radio
New Antenna
New mirror
New door cards
New kick panels
New rear view mirror
New gas tank
Replaced the door
New Stainless exhaust and ceramic long tube headers
Rebuilt rear end
Rebuilt front end
New shocks
Plus more I am sure I am forgetting
Plus a damn good paint job.
All in all I was in this for 14K and it was painted. I sold it for close to 20K, something I will never see from my 60.
Looking back at this sheet and now what I have spent on the 60 I am getting to the point where I may just cut my loss and say goodbye. I still have paint, a new windshield and all window seals to do (have the seals) Plus I am sure some other smaller things.
The 22K was a shock and hard to swallow. I really like my 60 and I am figuring it will go on one last trip with me but after that it will be looking for a new home. I just cannot justify spending one more dollar on a vehicle that I am so upside down on. Hell I can buy another Chevelle or a GTO for a touch more that is restored.
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Don’t feel bad....22k isn’t bad at all.... I’m into mine for like 36k
Once you realize what you want to do with the truck it’s all relative. For me I plan to keep my truck forever and pass it down to my kids. I wanted a truck that would be safe, comfortable, problem free, and look fantastic for years to come.
If you plan to keep your truck for a very long time don’t feel bad about putting money into your investment. It doesn’t always have to be about resale but do what makes you happy. At the end of the day it’s about having fun and enjoying these trucks and the community that comes with it.
On a side note I’ve owned several GTOs and a restored GTO will cost you way more than 22k. I had a matching numbers 69 GTO Judge that was frame ON restored and I paid about 55k for it
I vote keep your 60. You will miss it!!! They are steadily climbing in value and will be worth a lot More as time goes on. Just my .02
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- Thread starter
- #110
This is exactly what I am struggling with. I like my 60 and built it exactly how I wanted, but I am having trouble with what I have spent. My wife is tolerant of it due to what the 60 means to me. However while my kids like it a lot and my oldest wants to drive it one day, my wife may not take it.
I do not want to put any blame on her. I am happy with the 60 and when I drive it, even happier. Just not the value of the rig, vs what I have spent. The Chevelle was not about restore and sell, that was a 40th birthday gift from my wife and it was sold due to other reasons that we both agreed on.
The 60, I have even said it that it is not about what it cost. However when you have hit double what you could reasonably sell it for or even where it's value may be in 5-10 years, I need to look at it more closely if it is even worth keeping at this point. I do not want to invest more.
At the end of the day it’s your choice. There are more factors than just resale value though. Think of memories, trips with family, your kids driving the truck like you mentioned, etc. Keep in mind you usually never get back what you put into vehicles especially with modifications. It’s more of the journey than the destination in my opinion.
These vehicles ARE climbing in value and may not ever be worth what a fully restored 1970 GTO or Chevelle will be worth but they are different in many ways. I remember looking in 2012-2013 for FJ60s and remember seeing one that was super clean, low mileage, etc. Sold for like 12 Grand. Today that same truck would probably be a 20-25k truck easily.
- Thread starter
- #112
I agree they are climbing but not that much. A perfect example is one I sold years ago, it was a clean truck with a V8 conversion. It sold and if it sold for the asking price, then it was 3 K more than I sold it for in 2011.
So far my memories have been building this damn thing. I am still on the fence, but falling off fast. I need to plan a few trips in it in the next month or so. Maybe this will sway me.
Part of the reason I bought this was for a 4 door version of my BJ42. Realizing I live in the US, I knew the stock diesel was not possible (Toyota that is and no swaps) Blue was purchased as that was the color of my first one. I wanted something for myself and to carry my kids and crap.
I am hanging on to that.
I know that I will never see the $$ back, I have built enough rigs to know that. But then I never did a cost sheet, I should have not done one now.
My main problem is I will be around 30K into this 60, once paint and a few other small things are done. It is hard to swallow for sure. So I think paint will not get done at all. I have enough mixed paint to paint the hood myself which I wlll do to lose the black. I will also touch up the roof where I saw the paint was a little thin from the roof rack that was up there (fortunately the roof is not rusted at all).
Then we will see, for now the build has ended and now it is just cleanup and decisions. It will be a hard decision either way and only one I can make.
The biggest thing that is keeping me from just selling it is not the loss I will take. IT is the fact that I built that 60 exactly how I wanted. In some cases, exactly how it should have arrived on the US shores. I had a vision for it and I have yet to falter...... until now.
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Look at it this way, if you bought a brand new 4WD vehicle (which you'll be close to having), how much would you pay? And how much would you get out of it if you sold it "x" years later?
Case in point, the last vehicle I bought in 2009 was north of $50,000, even with a steep discount. I'll drive it until I'm too old to drive, but don't expect it'll be worth much by then.
Case in point, the last vehicle I bought in 2009 was north of $50,000, even with a steep discount. I'll drive it until I'm too old to drive, but don't expect it'll be worth much by then.
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It’s an off-road truck, not an investment, go wheel it, put some dents in it, enjoy it. Forget about the paint.
I swear all this talk about values and investments is turning this forum super lame.
I swear all this talk about values and investments is turning this forum super lame.
- Thread starter
- #115
This is a good point
My F150's current value is worth like 7k from the 30k I paid for it. It is not gaining in value.
It is one of the pro's for sure.
- Thread starter
- #116
I did not buy the 60 as an investment, but when you spend as much as I have and then compare it to what I put into my Chevelle it is starting to double.
Remember this is is not over 10 years here, it is less than 3.
Still as mentioned at this point just about everything is either new or rebuilt......
- Thread starter
- #117
So the decision has been made and I will be keeping the cruiser at least until I take my 3 week summer trip in 2019.
I have built this 60 for exactly that type of travel and to be reliable along the way. I would be a shame to not at least use it once for it's intended purpose.
That said, there will be no more investments in the 60. So while I will paint the hood and the whole roof after I reseal the drip rails. fix the last of the body rust and repaint with bedliner (to match the rest of the truck and protect it from the gravel roads). The only thing I will invest is the 2nd battery since I have 90% of the parts and have the battery.
The trip is still up in the air, but Newfoundland and Labrador are winning the decision. Mainly because it brings me back to my home country.
I have built this 60 for exactly that type of travel and to be reliable along the way. I would be a shame to not at least use it once for it's intended purpose.
That said, there will be no more investments in the 60. So while I will paint the hood and the whole roof after I reseal the drip rails. fix the last of the body rust and repaint with bedliner (to match the rest of the truck and protect it from the gravel roads). The only thing I will invest is the 2nd battery since I have 90% of the parts and have the battery.
The trip is still up in the air, but Newfoundland and Labrador are winning the decision. Mainly because it brings me back to my home country.
There are multiple ways of looking at cost/value. Many mention the ridiculous cost of a new 4 wheel drive and the astounding amount of money people lose in depreciation over the first couple of years. Very relevant but also a little remote in some sense. One of the ways I look at it is this. About five and a half years ago we were trying to buy a house and I needed a car for work. I didn't want to use any liquid we had accumulated or jack up my credit. So buying something I really wanted was out of the the question. Ended up with a safe and cheap lease on a VW. Cost me about 300 a month plus of course the super expensive insurance and a small deposit. Over the three years of that lease I figure I spent roughly 12.5k or call it 4k per year for easy math. When it was done I drove it to the dealer paid them another $350 turn in fee and walked away with nothing. It served its purpose and it was the right choice at the time.
I figure if i spend 4k or less per year on my 62 and my 62 isn't really depreciating in value then I am still better off in the long run. Now if 6x series values keep rising maybe I am even better off down the road. However I do suppose my own fuzzy math only works if its a daily driver which mine isn't (but may be soon).
I think the cost/value thing is very individual and as @cruisermatt points out may be the wrong perspective.
Whatever purpose you bought it for in the first place make sure you are using it for that and ultimately it will put a smile on your face and the money spent will make a lot more sense
I figure if i spend 4k or less per year on my 62 and my 62 isn't really depreciating in value then I am still better off in the long run. Now if 6x series values keep rising maybe I am even better off down the road. However I do suppose my own fuzzy math only works if its a daily driver which mine isn't (but may be soon).
I think the cost/value thing is very individual and as @cruisermatt points out may be the wrong perspective.
Whatever purpose you bought it for in the first place make sure you are using it for that and ultimately it will put a smile on your face and the money spent will make a lot more sense
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- Thread starter
- #119
This is very good and thank you for taking the time to post this. The intended purpose was a solo expedition vehicle that was simple to repair and would not leave me stranded somewhere because of a sensor (been there done that). It was also to be my daily driver.
The second purpose of this was something I could use to take my kids camping, fishing etc (hence installing proper Toyota rear shoulder belts).
I have spent a better part of the weekend and last week thinking about it, and like I said it has been one of the hardest decisions to make.
It tells you how much time and really thought I have put into this. Much more than any other vehicle I have ever had and probably more than I ever will in a vehicle.
All in all I may end up keeping it if all goes well next summer, who knows. It will be off the road for the winter while I fix the last few things it needs.
Other thing to remember is that you are comparing a "classic 4x4" which is a very niche market to a "classic muscle car" which is not. These are two very different markets, both volatile in their own manner however the main difference that I have seen, is that with muscle cars every Tom, Dick and Harry knows what a Chevelle, Mustang, Charger/Challenger, etc. from the muscle car eras looks like. These are then considered "vintage" and "cool" things to own regardless of their usage.
If the purpose of the 60 was simply to enjoy it then that is your ROI and ratings base. If you no longer get those "smiles per gallon" then it is time to invest in something else and let her go. However, if those "smiles per gallon" are still present then the contemplation of ditching her should be something that is much, MUCH more highly evaluated. This is more about a relationship, it seems to be, based on what you have stated and the "heart" you have put into your truck, that the relationship between you and your 60 is much stronger than that of the Chevelle. That is something else to consider.
If the purpose of the 60 was simply to enjoy it then that is your ROI and ratings base. If you no longer get those "smiles per gallon" then it is time to invest in something else and let her go. However, if those "smiles per gallon" are still present then the contemplation of ditching her should be something that is much, MUCH more highly evaluated. This is more about a relationship, it seems to be, based on what you have stated and the "heart" you have put into your truck, that the relationship between you and your 60 is much stronger than that of the Chevelle. That is something else to consider.