Fj60 FlyWheel grinding on the block

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Jan 5, 2015
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243
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Dallas TX
 
I have a 1984 fj60 with a 2FE conversion with H55f. I replaced the clutch and flywheel a while back ago and when i removed the old flywheel it had groves worn in on the engine side of it that the new one didnt have. And where you press in the rear main seal the metal on the block is flat, shiney and sharp, thus cutting the seal on its sides when i tried to install it, leaving me with a permanent oil leak.

When the new fly wheel was installed and i depressed the clutch with the engine running it made a horrible metal on metal grinding noise. With my fj60 being my only transportation i had to deal with it (knowing it was the flywheel grinding.) After a while the grinding stopped and im assuming beacuse it had new grooves carved into it from the block.

Now when i open the clutch access plate i can move the flywheel front and back atleast half an inch, a crazy ammount to where i assume should not move at all.

Yes its ran out of oil before.
It holds near perfect vaccum.
It has 310k miles on the block
Head rebuilt about 40k miles ago.
The last compression test i did measured as such
1. 176psi
2. 160psi
3. 168psi
4. 168psi
5. 170psi
6. 178psi
Never seen any metal in the oil from an oil change.

My question is. With the block being grinded down where the rear main seal is. Can my engine be saved or rebuilt? Or am i gonna have to find a new block. Before anyone says it... under any circumstances i will NOT put a CHEVY engine in a TOYOTA truck.
 

morganism

SunkCostFallacy
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It may also be the throwout bearing adding to the problem, some turned w shaft, some run free.

What does the dampner out front of engine look like, is it leaking at that seal?
 
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Dallas TX
 
Its not grinding anymore and im 110% sure its not a throwout bearing. Its brand new oem spins free. and no oil leaks out of the front, just the rear at the rear main seal
 

3_puppies

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movement of the flywheel is not good, it needs to come apart and figure out what is wrong.
 
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When you are moving the flywheel back and forth does the crank pulley on the front of the engine also move in and out?

If yes, thats thrust bearing or thrust crank surface problems. I know there was (still is?) rebuild issues with setting up thrust with some bearings - but it sounds like your lower end has never been apart?

You could tear it apart, but if you truly have in excess of 1/2” of crank walk, I really question what in your lower end is salvageable at this point. I’d watch for a used 2f you can drop your rebuild head on.
 
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When you are moving the flywheel back and forth does the crank pulley on the front of the engine also move in and out?

If yes, thats thrust bearing or thrust crank surface problems. I know there was (still is?) rebuild issues with setting up thrust with some bearings - but it sounds like your lower end has never been apart?

You could tear it apart, but if you truly have in excess of 1/2” of crank walk, I really question what in your lower end is salvageable at this point. I’d watch for a used 2f you can drop your rebuild head on.
I only can test for movment on to rear via the access hatch, everything else is fine in the block, i was hoping i could just give it to a shop and they could fix the play issue
 
Joined
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Boulder, Co
Does your crank pulley have any play in it? Look on the back side of it and check the rubber. If it's dry rotted it could be causing vibrations that have lead to slack in the bearings. Strange, though, that the flywheel is the only thing with abnormal movement. I would suspect something's up with the crank shaft and/or bearings.
 
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Calhoun, Ga.
 
 
 
As far as I can figure the flywheel should have no play in it at all its bolted directly to the Crank.
If it has play in it as you've described you have lost or sheared bolts and the fly wheel is being held in
place by clutch and throw out bearing pressure. This has disaster written all over it. Pull the transmission and
bell housing and figure out what's going on.
 

g-man

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I imagine if it were worn bearing that the OP would have oil pressure problems, burnt oil etc. If the engine is good then I'd suspect loose flywheel bolts.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
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Location
Dallas TX
 
Does your crank pulley have any play in it? Look on the back side of it and check the rubber. If it's dry rotted it could be causing vibrations that have lead to slack in the bearings. Strange, though, that the flywheel is the only thing with abnormal movement. I would suspect something's up with the crank shaft and/or bearings.
Sorry if i misunderstood, the front pulley and the flywheel both have the same play, they both move front and back significantly. Which makes sence as theyre connected and just confirms it even more that somthing not right
 
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Dallas TX
 
how in the hell does a crank move 1/2 inch axially?

View attachment 1788519
Hell if i know, the clutch dosent always grab when the blocks really warm, it hasent done it since the new clutch but before id have to force it into gear, im assuming because the fork is pushing the flywheel in the block instead of pushing in the pressure plate. The old clutch still had life in it and the old pressure plate was still good. Which leads me to believe it just couldnt take the lack of push from the clutch?
 
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I imagine if it were worn bearing that the OP would have oil pressure problems, burnt oil etc. If the engine is good then I'd suspect loose flywheel bolts.
With the flywheel tightend and the transmission out i could feel the movment. Thats how i discoverd it was when i was torquing it down that it had significant play
 
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Next oil change i guess im going to pull the oil pan... i dont want to but im afraid thats the only way to properly diagnose this issue... my main question is. With the block grinded down where the rear main seal is could i still save it?
 

Mace

rock scientist..
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Here is a main bearing set for a 2F


See that top bearing? That is the bearing with the thrust surfaces. It is designed to stop the play you are describing. If that bearing was not installed properly or was not installed at all, your crank would be able to move quite a bit back and forth. Continued driving with that much play will destroy the motor.

Unless you like long walks home with a dead cruiser on the side of the road don't wait for the next oil change to pull the pan. This is not a small issue at all.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
243
Location
Dallas TX
 
Here is a main bearing set for a 2F


See that top bearing? That is the bearing with the thrust surfaces. It is designed to stop the play you are describing. If that bearing was not installed properly or was not installed at all, your crank would be able to move quite a bit back and forth. Continued driving with that much play will destroy the motor.

Unless you like long walks home with a dead cruiser on the side of the road don't wait for the next oil change to pull the pan. This is not a small issue at all.
Are we talking about pulling the motor? Or just unboltinng part of the crank to replace these bearings
 
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Boulder, Co
how in the hell does a crank move 1/2 inch axially?

View attachment 1788519
The same grinding could be happening on the journals too.
If there are shavings in the oil that would be an indicator. Sounds like a problem that wasn't addressed for a long time and is presenting itself as this issue. I.e. Worn harmonic balancer allowing vibrations in the block. Kinda like what Felicity was dealing with recently. Perhaps the oil pressure gauge isn't functioning properly and didn't indicate a problem... which has evolved into this problem. If a PO didn't know what signs to look out for and neglected the issue... the universe is a crazy place and unbelievable things happen all the time. I think Jim has a tread on awful rebuilds that he's had to fix.
 
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Messages
243
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Dallas TX
 
Ive had the cruiser for 20 years and its ran without issue. The old flywheel worn in so slow over time that i heard no grinding. The only grinding ive ever known of was the new flywheel breaking in, lets assume a worst case scenario. Is this just a machine job with new bearings? I'll make a video of the play today
 
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Boulder, Co
It will be interesting to see if the crank wore as well as the block, journals, main caps, and bearings. I suspect all to a certain degree.
Yeah with that much play you can only assume. We hope for the best case scenario! But maybe a new block is in order?
 
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