Delta VS Radius Arms

[vwluv10338]

@Delta VS

You mentioned Heim joints earlier in this thread but I never saw them mentioned again. Would replacing the frame end bushing with a Heim joint give more flex?

 

[Delta VS]

@Delta VS

You mentioned Heim joints earlier in this thread but I never saw them mentioned again. Would replacing the frame end bushing with a Heim joint give more flex?

Potentially? But the gains would be very minimal. It would also increase cost a bit and increase noise. Any movement/vibration in the arm would be transferred to the chassis and heard/felt a bit more. We decided to just stick with OEMs all the way around for these reasons.

 

[Dirty Koala]

Heim joints also have a shorter lifespan than oem rubber

 

[vwluv10338]

Potentially? But the gains would be very minimal. It would also increase cost a bit and increase noise. Any movement/vibration in the arm would be transferred to the chassis and heard/felt a bit more. We decided to just stick with OEMs all the way around for these reasons.

What about Johnny Joints like this?

My issue is my friends budget built XJ just outflexed me on a ATI ramp last weekend so I need to get the most amount of flex I can without going linked. Im running 4” lift with caster plates on my HDJ81

 

[Dirty Koala]

What about Johnny Joints like this?

My issue is my friends budget built XJ just outflexed me on a ATI ramp last weekend so I need to get the lost amount of flex I can without going linked. Im running 4” lift with caster plates on my HDJ81

View attachment 2126661

Is your only goal here to out flex your buddies Jeep? If it were me, I would invite my buddy to go on a nice long remote trip over rough terrain, and then see who is complaining by the end of the 2nd or 3rd day of hard driving...my guess is you will take home the win there.

 

[vwluv10338]

Is your only goal here to out flex your buddies Jeep? If it were me, I would invite my buddy to go on a nice long remote trip over rough terrain, and then see who is complaining by the end of the 2nd or 3rd day of hard driving...my guess is you will take home the win there.

I wouldn’t say it’s my only goal but I was a bit disappointed in my flex. I have been slowly correcting the lift from the previous owner in Japan. It was 6” all show, no go. They had 4” springs with 2” spacers and no castor correction. I removed the spacers but that leaves such long shocks that my droop was awesome but the springs came unsettled. I replaced the springs with Dobinson flexi coils which fixed that but I still want to get new shocks. After castor correction the front driveshaft made noise so I had a DC shaft built. These Delta arms seem to be the ticket for me based on the pics of their flex. They brought up the heim joints earlier so that is why I asked. I wasn’t sure if maybe they tried them and realized it wasn’t worth it over bushings. My buddy is having good luck with his Johnny joints so I figured maybe the articulation would be better without the bushings fighting you.

 

[Dirty Koala]

I wouldn’t say it’s my only goal but I was a bit disappointed in my flex. I have been slowly correcting the lift from the previous owner in Japan. It was 6” all show, no go. They had 4” springs with 2” spacers and no castor correction. I removed the spacers but that leaves such long shocks that my droop was awesome but the springs came unsettled. I replaced the springs with Dobinson flexi coils which fixed that but I still want to get new shocks. After castor correction the front driveshaft made noise so I had a DC shaft built. These Delta arms seem to be the ticket for me based on the pics of their flex. They brought up the heim joints earlier so that is why I asked. I wasn’t sure if maybe they tried them and realized it wasn’t worth it over bushings. My buddy is having good luck with his Johnny joints so I figured maybe the articulation would be better without the bushings fighting you.

I am running a slinky suspension paired with delta arms and the articulation of that setup is really nice. I do beleive the delta arms allow for more movement before binding than the stock arms due to the narrower profile. Checkout @Box Rocket threads or his instagram for a ton of pics of how these trucks can flex when setup right.

 

[Delta VS]

I wouldn’t say it’s my only goal but I was a bit disappointed in my flex. I have been slowly correcting the lift from the previous owner in Japan. It was 6” all show, no go. They had 4” springs with 2” spacers and no castor correction. I removed the spacers but that leaves such long shocks that my droop was awesome but the springs came unsettled. I replaced the springs with Dobinson flexi coils which fixed that but I still want to get new shocks. After castor correction the front driveshaft made noise so I had a DC shaft built. These Delta arms seem to be the ticket for me based on the pics of their flex. They brought up the heim joints earlier so that is why I asked. I wasn’t sure if maybe they tried them and realized it wasn’t worth it over bushings. My buddy is having good luck with his Johnny joints so I figured maybe the articulation would be better without the bushings fighting you.

Long story short is we looked into it and decided against it. We can do custom setups, but those start out at least double the cost.

Pretty confident the arms themselves and the bushings are NOT the limiting factor, more the radius arms style suspension itself that creates the flex issues. You just can’t make 4 fixed points of contact in close proximity to one another move that much. Using a forklift on the front tire and holding rear tire down, have flexed the ever loving he’ll out of a rig and basically taken bushings to zero thickness of rubber on the axle side. Chassis side looks totally fine in that situation.

 

[Box Rocket]

I wouldn’t say it’s my only goal but I was a bit disappointed in my flex. I have been slowly correcting the lift from the previous owner in Japan. It was 6” all show, no go. They had 4” springs with 2” spacers and no castor correction. I removed the spacers but that leaves such long shocks that my droop was awesome but the springs came unsettled. I replaced the springs with Dobinson flexi coils which fixed that but I still want to get new shocks. After castor correction the front driveshaft made noise so I had a DC shaft built. These Delta arms seem to be the ticket for me based on the pics of their flex. They brought up the heim joints earlier so that is why I asked. I wasn’t sure if maybe they tried them and realized it wasn’t worth it over bushings. My buddy is having good luck with his Johnny joints so I figured maybe the articulation would be better without the bushings fighting you.

Just remember ramp scores are for posers and won't always indicate how it will work in the real world. Ramps are good for checking clearances and getting measurements for shocks and driveshafts. Don't put too much stock in them beyond that.

I think @mryanangel and @Delta VS have both given a good answer for you. The radius arm set up isn't the most ideal for getting BIG flex, but the 80 can still flex well with radius arms. The Delta arms are a nice upgrade in this case not only for the built in caster correction but because the eyes are narrowing and will not bind in the axle brackets as soon as a stock radius arm will. With certain setups removing or disconnecting the front swaybar will gain some additional flex. Personally I've found very little difference in flex with my 3" Slinky suspension when the swaybar is connected or not. But I've seen the disconnected swaybar make a noticeable improvement in flex with other setups.

I have used Trail Tailor rear control arms with Johnny Joints. They are very nice arms and the joints eliminate any binding that may occur when flexed. From my experience rear flex is limited by just a few things if you keep the stock link locations. Poly bushings just won't flex like OEM rubber or something like a Johnny Joint. If you have poly bushings in the rear, ditch em. I am now using Blackhawk rear control arms that use OEM Rubber bushings and they flex equally as well as the TT arms with Johnny Joints did, and the ride is a bit smoother with the rubber bushings. Shock length can limit rear flex too. Tires contacting the body along with bumpstop setup is the other limiter. Trimming fenders to eliminate tires rubbing and setting bumpstops to use the maximum compression and extension of what the shocks will allow should be the target. Proper length shocks will help maximize the potential. Of course all of this only applies if you are keeping the radius arm and stock rear link setup. If you want to go full custom linked suspension, then the principles still apply but the execution changes.

Like Morgan said, take your Jeep buddy out on a long distance offroad trip with high speeds in rough terrain and see how he keeps up. He'll run himself and the Jeep ragged trying to keep up with you. And even if he gets a bit farther up an RTI ramp, you will still be able to tackle any of the rock crawling obstacles he will be and not be slowed down by a small amount of flex difference between the rigs.

This is with stock front radius arms, blackhawk rear arms and both swaybars still attached. There are some guys on here with 3-link fronts that get more droop, but for a stock radius arm setup I'm completely satisfied. My front end is currently limited by the radius arm eyes binding on the axle brackets. It would flex a bit more with narrower eyes on the arms like the Delta arms would provide.
IMG_0630 by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

 

[jonheld]

I'm going to jump in here amongst all the back-and-forth banter and just say that I am very impressed with the fit and finish of the Delta radius arms that I just installed.

I went with the 4" high clearance arms with OEM bushings and new OEM hardware.
Installation was very straight forward in my driveway with a couple of jack stands and a floor jack. The most difficult part was getting them into position to get 1 bolt started. They weigh a freaking ton and when 1 comes down on your thumb, well let's just say that the neighbor's kids picked up some new words

This truck has always flexed well in the rocks, so I'm anxious to see if there is any improvement in the front. That will have to wait until the snow stops flying around here.

The additional caster really changed the way she handles now, and I was able to zero out the toe and still maintain excellent road manners. That gave me a minuscule tick up in MPG. For a daily driver, every little bit helps.
The OEM bushings quiet down and smooth out the ride quite a bit. I'm very pleased.

I think these are an excellent product and the craftsmanship appears to be top notch.

 

[Delta VS]

I'm going to jump in here amongst all the back-and-forth banter and just say that I am very impressed with the fit and finish of the Delta radius arms that I just installed.

I went with the 4" high clearance arms with OEM bushings and new OEM hardware.
Installation was very straight forward in my driveway with a couple of jack stands and a floor jack. The most difficult part was getting them into position to get 1 bolt started. They weigh a freaking ton and when 1 comes down on your thumb, well let's just say that the neighbor's kids picked up some new words

This truck has always flexed well in the rocks, so I'm anxious to see if there is any improvement in the front. That will have to wait until the snow stops flying around here.

The additional caster really changed the way she handles now, and I was able to zero out the toe and still maintain excellent road manners. That gave me a minuscule tick up in MPG. For a daily driver, every little bit helps.
The OEM bushings quiet down and smooth out the ride quite a bit. I'm very pleased.

I think these are an excellent product and the craftsmanship appears to be top notch.

Thanks for the kind words Jon, glad you are happy with them.

 

[Azca]

Just installed the 4" radius arms on my rig with about a 3" overall lift that I ordered back in November. WOW! If you are thinking about buying these, stop thinking and just do it! HUGE difference in road manners. The way she drives now exceeded my expectations. No more darting about, just stays where I point it. I had to pay attention with irregular pavement, changes in camber on the road, or other pavement changes before but, not now. I ordered with the new bushes and hardware as well and could not be happier. (I already had their panhard bracket which did provide noticeable improvement at the time it was installed)

I had the OME castor correction bushes in the stock radius arms before. They are still in decent condition, unexpectedly, so their condition did not play into the equation.

I worked with Dave and Patrick on deciding which would be best for me. I may push the lift a tad higher with different springs and did not want to order the 2" only to have to change them in the future. Patrick felt they would work fine but also hinted that it would be a bit more difficult to steer, meaning input effort, at low speed. I am happy to say that I don't notice the increased effort.

Thank you Delta, you have great products and a great team!

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

Everyone,
Thanks for the write up and feedback on these.

I'll also report back on my impression and experience with the Delta equipment and dobinson suspension components.

I talked to Dave at Delta yesterday I'm building my first 80 series and it looks like I'm going with the dobinson 3-inch lift. However, I've quickly learned there's more to it than just some suspension and tires.

so far to get this right I have spoken to George valley hybrids, Dave Delta, Dave at dobinson, and Joey wits end.

After all my reading and research just a lift and tires with caster correction bushings or plates isn't enough. These radius arms look like an absolute must along with the Delta rear High clearance panhard bracket.

So lifted properly it looks like I'll need
*Delta 4 inch radius arms with bushings and hardware
*Delta high-clearance panhard bracket
*Delta rear bump stops
*Delta sway bar drop kit
*Dobinson 3 inch lift with LSPV bracket
*Joey's Wits End extended stainless steel braided brake lines

I saw dobinson also offers sway bar drop anyone have any input here?

Did I miss anything?

Buy once cry once

 

[Bludozer]

Everyone,
Thanks for the write up and feedback on these.

I'll also report back on my impression and experience with the Delta equipment and dobinson suspension components.

I talked to Dave at Delta yesterday I'm building my first 80 series and it looks like I'm going with the dobinson 3-inch lift. However, I've quickly learned there's more to it than just some suspension and tires.

so far to get this right I have spoken to George valley hybrids, Dave Delta, Dave at dobinson, and Joey wits end.

After all my reading and research just a lift and tires with caster correction bushings or plates isn't enough. These radius arms look like an absolute must along with the Delta rear High clearance panhard bracket.

So lifted properly it looks like I'll need
*Delta 4 inch radius arms with bushings and hardware
*Delta high-clearance panhard bracket
*Delta rear bump stops
*Delta sway bar drop kit
*Dobinson 3 inch lift with LSPV bracket
*Joey's Wits End extended stainless steel braided brake lines

I saw dobinson also offers sway bar drop anyone have any input here?

Did I miss anything?

Buy once cry once

To do it 100% the last piece of your puzzle is a rear lower control arm upgrade to fix pinion angle and realign rear driveshaft. I purchased the landtank ones from Joey which are on the way to me right now (super excited) and have a nearly identical set up to yours already on my truck albeit with different brand shocks/coils.

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

To do it 100% the last piece of your puzzle is a rear lower control arm upgrade to fix pinion angle and realign rear driveshaft. I purchased the landtank ones from Joey which are on the way to me right now (super excited) and have a nearly identical set up to yours already on my truck albeit with different brand shocks/coils.

Thanks for the input I'll have a look at it what shocks and coils did you go with?

Dobinson look sexy to me because it's all Australian made and seems to be a good quality though I've never run it myself.

 

[Bludozer]

Thanks for the input I'll have a look at it what shocks and coils did you go with?

Dobinson look sexy to me because it's all Australian made and seems to be a good quality though I've never run it myself.

I went with Icon springs and shocks. Delta does a 'full kit' that includes a lot of the items you are considering purchasing anyway with icon springs/shocks and gives it a bit of a discount if you purchase it all together. Been very happy with all of it and how it feels off and on road, though my truck is turning out to be a little heavier than originally intended (pretty common) and if I could do it again I would get the same set up but with a higher spring rate from icon.

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

I went with Icon springs and shocks. Delta does a 'full kit' that includes a lot of the items you are considering purchasing anyway with icon springs/shocks and gives it a bit of a discount if you purchase it all together. Been very happy with all of it and how it feels off and on road, though my truck is turning out to be a little heavier than originally intended (pretty common) and if I could do it again I would get the same set up but with a higher spring rate from icon.

I'll check Delta's website again I didn't see a full package thanks!

 

[Bludozer]

I'll check Delta's website again I didn't see a full package thanks!

Delta Vehicle Systems

Off-road and 4x4 performance equipment designed and manufactured in Boise, Idaho. Bumpers, lift kits, storage solutions and more premier overland equipment for your off-road vehicle.

www.deltavs.com

 

[baldilocks]

I'll check Delta's website again I didn't see a full package thanks!

Be aware that the icon springs are set for lighter rigs.

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

Be aware that the icon springs are set for lighter rigs.

That icon kit is it bit more than I think I need or would like to spend and I got about a dozen buddies that have had really bad luck with icon shocks and struts and all kinds of different vehicles.

I'm leaving dobinson unless anybody else has something to add?