'93 1fz-fe engine knock. Main bearings = toast = cracked crank

[Pin_Head]

The very first thing I tried was using the starter with a breaker lashed to the chassis rail it just stopped the motor dead, not even a hint of it working.

That is not the proper technique.

You leave the breaker bar handle dangling off the nut and free to swing and start it about 45-90 degrees away from the frame and then hit the key. Make sure there are no bystanders watching because exciting things can happen when the handle hits the frame (like the nut loosening or the bar breaking).

 

[Snowy105]

Yeah I figured that out in the end, gave it a few goes letting it swing but it didn’t quite get it. Battery went flat in the end haha. It must have helped a little cause once I chained up the pulley and gave several hard yanks on the bolt it finally came loose.

 

[baldilocks]

That is not the proper technique.

You leave the breaker bar handle dangling off the nut and free to swing and start it about 45-90 degrees away from the frame and then hit the key. Make sure there are no bystanders watching because exciting things can happen when the handle hits the frame (like the nut loosening or the bar breaking).

I’ve done it twice with the breaker bar bungied directly to the frame. Some bolts come off easier than others. I’ve read posts where guys broke a 1/2” bb and the 3/4” stalled the engine. There seems to be little consistency.

 

[DivByZero]

Hey @mudgudgeon, with where you're at, have you thought about just dropping in a working used motor, in any condition, to get the car back on the road quickly? It doesn't have to be anything more than a temporary filler to buy you time. With the way a rebuild can balloon out in terms of cost and time, it creates problems. These cars don't like to sit. It's also easy to lose motivation.

Personally, what I'd do if I was in your position is drop in another motor ASAP. Don't fuss around with doing a bunch of work on this replacement motor, just find one that runs and chuck it in. Then, you can take your time rebuilding the original motor, doing it right, saving up for parts, waiting for machining work, while you're still getting use out of your 80 and it's not deteriorating. Then when you're done, you can swap in your nicely rebuilt engine, and keep the temp motor as spare or onsell it for probably similar to what you got it for. And in the event the rebuild doesn't go as planned, you still have a working 80, and you can always put your engine parts on ice or sell them to recoup some costs.

 

[Pin_Head]

I’ve done it twice with the breaker bar bungied directly to the frame.

If they come off with your wrench tied to the frame, they will for sure come off with a little more impact in your "impact" wrench.

I won a $100 bet with my service manager who was trying to get the crank pulley off of a Buick. He broke the tool that was supposed to keep the flywheel from turning and I bet him that I could get the nut off with one arm behind my back. I put the wrench on the nut, lowered the car on the lift, put one arm behind my back and reached in the window and hit the ignition switch. Bzzt-Bam! and the nut was off. He was pissed but he paid up.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Hey @mudgudgeon, with where you're at, have you thought about just dropping in a working used motor, in any condition, to get the car back on the road quickly? It doesn't have to be anything more than a temporary filler to buy you time. With the way a rebuild can balloon out in terms of cost and time, it creates problems. These cars don't like to sit. It's also easy to lose motivation.

Personally, what I'd do if I was in your position is drop in another motor ASAP. Don't fuss around with doing a bunch of work on this replacement motor, just find one that runs and chuck it in. Then, you can take your time rebuilding the original motor, doing it right, saving up for parts, waiting for machining work, while you're still getting use out of your 80 and it's not deteriorating. Then when you're done, you can swap in your nicely rebuilt engine, and keep the temp motor as spare or onsell it for probably similar to what you got it for. And in the event the rebuild doesn't go as planned, you still have a working 80, and you can always put your engine parts on ice or sell them to recoup some costs.

Yeah, have thought about it, creates a different set of headaches, but may be the way to go.
If I were gonna drop another engine in, I'd like to use a 105 series 1fz-fe, but that's another set of problems again

 

[brettk]

Yeah, have thought about it, creates a different set of headaches, but may be the way to go.
If I were gonna drop another engine in, I'd like to use a 105 series 1fz-fe, but that's another set of problems again

Coupled with the crazy lockdowns down under, I’d say you have a harder time than most getting anything done right now .I know the intake is a little different and it has coils instead of a distributor, what else would be problematic?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Coupled with the crazy lockdowns down under, I’d say you have a harder time than most getting anything done right now .I know the intake is a little different and it has coils instead of a distributor, what else would be problematic?

Not sure how it goes in terms of compatibility with dash instruments, sensors, ECU etc etc
Would require some home work, and I'm already juggling a bunch of stuff ATM

More suited to turbo in the future

 

[Snowy105]

Yeah the lockdowns are making things rather hard indeed to progress with this sort of thing that usually require travel to machine shops etc.

if it makes you feel any better @mudgudgeon I’ve just popped the bottom part of the sump off today in preparation for lifting out my engine and discovered the tiniest bit of fresh green coolant in the bottom

so now it’s not just bottom end bearings and big end bearings it potentially the head gasket at a minimum and I’d be willing to bet if I sent the head off to be decked they’ll say I need a new head roughly $2k AUD

so I’m now on the hunt for a second hand 1FZ-FE and I’ll probably sell mine off cheap to suit rebuild.

you can see the green dots on the shelf of the oil drain pan along with some of the flakes of bearing I assume.

This white goo was also sitting in the bottom of the sump.

And I was having this kind of moisture? build up on the inside of the oil filler cap regularly when the car was being driven.

All points to head gasket I would think. Which is exactly what I didn’t want

 

[DivByZero]

See, this is why you guys need a 1HZ. I drove my HZJ80 at freeway speeds 20km each way, 5 days a week, for 8 months, while the head was cracked in four places. I had to top it up with coolant every second day, and keep my drivers window closed to avoid the trail of green that'd come out the overflow once the temperature got up there. Needed to drive it and couldn't afford to fix it. The entire time it ran solid, kept on ticking along not a care in the world. Oh, and my injector pump was worn out too, and there was a constant drip of diesel from the pump seals. And I drove this thing on 3000km round trips to Sydney and back in this state four times too. Just needed to stop every now and then to add some coolant. Eventually got an aftermarket head on there and got the pump rebuilt.... and it drives exactly the same now as it did for those 8 months, just a bit less white smoke and less coolant and diesel dribbles.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yeah the lockdowns are making things rather hard indeed to progress with this sort of thing that usually require travel to machine shops etc.

if it makes you feel any better @mudgudgeon I’ve just popped the bottom part of the sump off today in preparation for lifting out my engine and discovered the tiniest bit of fresh green coolant in the bottom

so now it’s not just bottom end bearings and big end bearings it potentially the head gasket at a minimum and I’d be willing to bet if I sent the head off to be decked they’ll say I need a new head roughly $2k AUD

so I’m now on the hunt for a second hand 1FZ-FE and I’ll probably sell mine off cheap to suit rebuild.

View attachment 2770185
you can see the green dots on the shelf of the oil drain pan along with some of the flakes of bearing I assume.

View attachment 2770186
This white goo was also sitting in the bottom of the sump.

View attachment 2770187
And I was having this kind of moisture? build up on the inside of the oil filler cap regularly when the car was being driven.

All points to head gasket I would think. Which is exactly what I didn’t want

That sucks snowy
Definitely looking like a head gasket issue there.

We need s two for one deal on engines hey!

 

[mudgudgeon]

See, this is why you guys need a 1HZ. I drove my HZJ80 at freeway speeds 20km each way, 5 days a week, for 8 months, while the head was cracked in four places. I had to top it up with coolant every second day, and keep my drivers window closed to avoid the trail of green that'd come out the overflow once the temperature got up there. Needed to drive it and couldn't afford to fix it. The entire time it ran solid, kept on ticking along not a care in the world. Oh, and my injector pump was worn out too, and there was a constant drip of diesel from the pump seals. And I drove this thing on 3000km round trips to Sydney and back in this state four times too. Just needed to stop every now and then to add some coolant. Eventually got an aftermarket head on there and got the pump rebuilt.... and it drives exactly the same now as it did for those 8 months, just a bit less white smoke and less coolant and diesel dribbles.

Been there done that too.
I had a 1HZ with a cracked head that I ran like that for months. It's now fixed and sitting in my shed with a turbo bolted up, and also a 3' stainless exhaust to suit 105 series.
Very tempting to throw that in the 80 too!!

 

[GeoffBart]

Another quick tip on breaking the balancer crankshaft bolt. Hi, I too am pulling my 1FZ-FE out or my 1997 80 series this weekend due to a few issues (burnt/broken valves Cyl 5 & 6 with unknown knocking noise form bottom end). Have done values and head gasket once before and with 350,000km now on the clock thought the old girl deserved a full rebuild this time around including new clutch and refresh of gearbox and transfer. Have dropped out the transfer already and hoping to pull engine and 5 speed box out in one go. Have removed radiator, A/C condenser and front support panel from the front and have a big kick-ar$e engine crane so I'll find out just how big a PITA this job is over the weekend. Its one mother of an engine..........have done a 2F and gearbox/transfer "in and out" all in one go in a 40 series a long time back but this monster of an engine is another challenge altogether.

Anyway reason I'm writing is that I had a similar ordeal breaking the balancer bolt (which I did before dropping the drive shafts). Had a 1/2' breaker bar with a 4 foot extension and was swinging on it like I was on the monkey bars back in the day and still wouldn't budge. My son mentioned to me that he had to do a similar job on his Mondeo diesel (take off the balancer pulley) and the secret was to apply some heat to the bolt while keeping tension on it or hitting with a suitable rattle gun. So gave it a go...........pointed a heat gun (used for burning off paint) at the centre of the bolt for 5 minutes or so then had someone keep it aimed at the bolt from around 4 inches away while I got back to swinging on the breaker bar. Nothing for a minute or two then an almighty crack and bolt let go. Could do the same with a gas bottle flame but would need to be more careful not to over do it and damage the damping rubber in the centre of the balancer. The heat gun is a lot less severe and still manages to get the bolt up to a very high temp in a controlled way without getting the balancer body all that hot. Worth a try and a bit more reserved than the "starter motor method" !!

 

[DivByZero]

Yeah, I did something similar in the past. In my case the bolt was really stuck on there too. I do suspect if I had the torque wrench I have now with over 1000Nm of torque it would have made short work of it. That said, when I didn't have that, what worked for me in the end was alternating heating and cooling. I'd use a propane torch to heat, then I'd use a can of compressed air upside down to freeze. Or was it the reverse? Can't remember. The idea was thermal shock. I targeted the washer area in front of the bolt too. This was on a 3L engine from a Hilux, not an 80. Enough heat/cool cycles, going at it with a breaker bar in between, and it eventually gave in.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Whooo hooh.
Shiny OEM goodness inbound!!

 

[BILT4ME]

Whooo hooh.
Shiny OEM goodness inbound!!

View attachment 2782326

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You really couldn't get a short block there in AUS?

I would think by the time you're done doing this, you'll have more money and especially more time into the rebuild than a short block.

 

[SNLC]

Never had an issue getting a harmonic balancer bolt off the crank. 3/4” breaker bar about five feet long or a 800ftlbs impact. Done 1PZ, 1HZ, 1HDT, FT, FTE and 1FZFE’s. Some, extremely cursty rusty.

Cheers

 

[Snowy105]

Whooo hooh.
Shiny OEM goodness inbound!!

Awesome looks the goods!

Last update in here on my discoveries was that the head gasket had gone in addition to something? in the bottom end.

After getting the crankshaft out I discovered that the 6th cylinder big end bearing was missing about 1/4 of the bearing
So that's where my knocking and glitter in the oil came from and just an obvious result from sudden lack of oil pressure at 100+ km/h

All the big end bearings were damaged.
The main bearings were all rather new-looking except for number 4 which had the slightest of marks in it.

I'll put up some pictures of what I found in another post.

So I sent my head and crankshaft off to the machine shop a week ago and I got good news back!

The crankshaft polished and measured up ok, no cracks or grinding needed.
The head had a couple of leaky valves up at Cylinder 1 but other than that was ok.

So I've given them the go-ahead to recondition the whole head and all up should cost me about $1000 to get those back in working order.

I'll order a bunch of new gaskets and seals and bearings and fingers crossed I should be able to reassemble it all and have it running again soon!
I'll also be doing my power steering pump while the engine is out because it was leaking and I don't want to do it later when it's back in the car.

Question about the Head bolts.......
The FSM gives measurements and instructions on checking these for re-use, is this actually a wise thing to do or should I just order some fresh ones?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Question about the Head bolts.......
The FSM gives measurements and instructions on checking these for re-use, is this actually a wise thing to do or should I just order some fresh ones?

Best to replace them. Unless you're on a super tight budget.
Partsouq had them when I did my head. I replaced what didn’t measure up in spec, plus ordered a couple extras. I had a couple of in spec reused head bolts yeild when torquing so I replaced them too.

 

[DivByZero]

Yeah, as a rule I'd never re-use head bolts. When you torque them to spec, the bolts actually stretch to the absolute limit they can before they start to deform. That means any extra stress of any kind can push them past that point, after which they won't clamp as well even if you torque them to spec. Since you usually only take a head off when something's gone wrong, I'd consider them suspect and replace them always. If you don't, and one or more a dodgy, you put yourself at risk of premature head gasket failure and/or head warping, and probably some other stuff I haven't thought of.