Builds dougbert's future 350 swap: How much torque is too much? (5 Viewers)

[norsk]

I think AA needs to re-write some of their instructions and references on their on web site and make it clear to 2nd tier vendors to incorporate the same.

I'm debating what my next path is...(GM auto trans, NV4500, or ranger). I'm interested in seeing how noisy the ranger is at road speed. I'm low geared at 4.88. If I decide to replace the marks setup....the ranger is a good alternative apparently, that should not require too much modification on my part.

I am looking at the Ranger mostly as an "adapter" to keep the drivelines and engine in a good spot. Then secondly as an Overdrive.

Sometime in the future I plan to get the H55 and replace the 4-sp as it will fail someday. I have 4.11s.

So you have the marks coupled to the 4-sp now then?

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

O righty now, will send this to AA support for info for them and will call tomorrow.
John, just how hard was it to R&R the REAR PLATE?

Doug - not hard at all. There is a new paper gasket they send, and my new plate had the seal around the shaft already installed. Those allen head bolts come out, plate comes off, clean mating surface, install gasket, install new plate, torque to the bolt torque they tell you when you get the new plate. Those numbers look too familiar, I really think it's exactly the problem I had.

Call anytime.
John

 

[Elbert]

I am looking at the Ranger mostly as an "adapter" to keep the drivelines and engine in a good spot. Then secondly as an Overdrive.

Sometime in the future I plan to get the H55 and replace the 4-sp as it will fail someday. I have 4.11s.

So you have the marks coupled to the 4-sp now then?

dougbert

5.7 + marks adapter + h55 then down to 4.88. So with 4.88 I'm not really into hwy speeds, cruise on road is around 55mph or so.

 

[norsk]

Called AA and spoke with Rusty who was assigned my support ticket I created yesterday.

After coming up to speed (he says he is recently new) on the issue, gave me the following instructions:

1) Remove the rear plate of the Ranger
2) Package it up, ready to ship
3) Call him back to get a RMA number, valid on that ship date. Write it on the package
4) ship it on to him
5) Wait for correct one

I also suggested some improvements to the document, and he was receptive to getting some.
Mainly I suggested improving steps 16, 17, and 18 of the document and add the possibility of TWO sizes of rear plates.

Gotta get the rear plate off tonight and ship tomorrow

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Got a response back indicating that AA is seriously looking at increasing the clarity of the Ranger Documentation on its installation.
That would be great for all.

I also noted that this thread has had over 300 more views in the past 2-4 days. That is above normal for this thread. There might be a lot of interest on how AA handles the improvements in the doc and in the Ranger in general.

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

I don't think AA has a good read on the average joe who buys some of their stuff....he may only install one of those adapters in the course of his off-road journey. If AA put some effort into the "blind reader" concept..ie (a set of instructions that assume zero knowledge, but reasonable mechanical ability)...good pictures and diagrams, they might actually increase sales. With the advent of gopro and other tools, you might be well served to make some videos and host those on your site for instructional aids. I noticed etrailer does this a lot with some of the stuff they sell.

 

[ntsqd]

Having done a little technical writing it is easy to assume something without realizing it. Really need a non-technical editor to proof-read it. And, some Engineers make decent technical writers but they're fairly rare. If AA is reading this, I'm available.

 

[norsk]

Here removing the last of the 1/4" allen bolts

Here with the rear plate off - came off really easily

and with the gray gasket off.

All boxed up now and ready to call and get the RMA # tomorrow and to ship it off

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Well the plate was delivered to AA in Calif this morning. Maybe they can turn it around today. Maybe. That would be nice.

In the meantime, I replaced the steel freeze plugs and installed brass ones on the back of the engine. Then I put the flywheel on using ARP bolts, with blue loctite and torqued it down to 85 ft-lbs as per the ARP bolt instructions. Normal torque is 60 ft-lbs, so went with the ARP instructions

(Interesting note: The flywheel was the FIRST item I had done - ie resurfaced - for $5 by Scott at Charlie;'s machine shop. It has been in the cupboard for the past 2 years and 8 months just waiting....and waiting for installation day.)

got the pilot bushing out with a few slices of bread, some water to moisten the bread and 5/8" bolt as a hammer rod. 4 minutes later after inserting more and more bread - bingo.
NOTE the ARP pressure plate bolts in the upper part of the pic. That will be up next

Bushing is now out

(Probably the 41 year) Old bushing on the left, new BEARING on the right. I love how improvements in parts has occurred during the life (and beyond) of the SBC. Really a great engine to rebuild, work on and maintain. I also love youtube for rebuilding information and instruction. Multiple viewpoints on almost everything.

BTW: I really, really like ARP bolts

 

[norsk]

Centerforce bolts the plate to a rigid cardboard backer - wow, neat.
Got 4 more bolts and nuts for my bolt collection

Pilot bearing installed and clutch disc indexed with GM-10 indexer

CFT165473s Centerforce I Clutch Pressure Plate box

Loctite and torqued bolts, all mounted to the flywheel

Next up will be the starter. This is the first time I have assembled an engine like this. I guess I can go howl at the partial moon tonight

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Hey Doug, is that the Centerforce clutch with a real short throw? The one everyone recommends?

I didn't use it, and had a hard time getting the balance between the throw out bearing not dragging and the clutch fully disengaging to work. Keep us posted on how that it goes?

 

[norsk]

Hey Doug, is that the Centerforce clutch with a real short throw? The one everyone recommends?

I didn't use it, and had a hard time getting the balance between the throw out bearing not dragging and the clutch fully disengaging to work. Keep us posted on how that it goes?

oh, oh,

more tuition coming I see.....

I am not sure on the short throw.
AA sells the Centerforce I and after speaking to them they indicated the Centerforce II would work and have more gripping ability.

pray tell, what did you go with?

UPDATE: It is now, got the short throw plate and installed.

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

what bell housing are you using?

 

[norsk]

what bell housing are you using?

got a used on off of ebay. Went searching for a picture of it in this thread and on my phone and I don't have one. Also could not find my receipt in my email box. Might have a paper receipt.... nope/

Geez I can't find any receipt for it. wow

The housing has a casting number, but it is currently out at the barn and I am at home, so I will get the casting number and a good pic of housing tomorrow.

UPDATE: On page one is my bill of materials. it lists the following for the bell housing:

$85: Chevy Bellhousing 460486 cast number, ebay

here is pic I just got off of ebay of that model:

Mine looks better than this one

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Worked on the left front brakes and locking mechanism

with 93 4Runner caliper, and the hub and lock on .... (note, I can't find my washers, nuts and cones - must have stored them somewhere safe - ordered some new ones)

rear view

pic of old fj60 caliper - looks like a red frog

pic of FJ60 caliper on top of 4Runner caliper

I ordered the caliper bolts and washerrs from Marlins, as they description says that these washers are thicker and are needed, otherwise the bolts will touch the disc.

After installing and torquing down, I looked at the space between the bolts and the disc and they are very, very close. One NEEDS those thicker washers.

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Doug,
I used a stock Chevy truck clutch. I ended up with some throw out bearing "drag" that I put up with until I wore the clutch in a little. AA has the proper clutch on their site. The reason is the Toyota slave cylinder doesn't have the long stroke like the Chevy.
John

 

[JohninFla]

I just saw your bell housing - mine is similar but with an inspection cover for most of the bottom half. Check the pivot, too, it comes in different lengths

Post 56 in my build is where I started to fight with the clutch

 

[Elbert]

guess you have your clutch fork and throw-out bearing planned for too. Is all of that going to be on the passenger side and use the FJ60 clutch slave?

 

[norsk]

guess you have your clutch fork and throw-out bearing planned for too. Is all of that going to be on the passenger side and use the FJ60 clutch slave?

the starter is on the passenger side

the clutch fork goes on the drivers side, and coupled with the AA bracket the slave attaches to that on the drivers side.
You can see that in pic 3 of the housing above.

AA has tested it all out. They have a short throw Centerforce I plate, and I made an assumption on the CF II plate. I might need to redesign my plan


dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Doug - that sounds right. Mine is drivers side too. I used the existing hard line, cut and flared a new fitting on it, and routed down there before I stuck the engine in.


Looks like you will have better luck than I did. Did you dig out the clutch slave cylinder? Mine was a lump of rust. :-(