" high speed " desert in an 80 series (1 Viewer)

[txlonghorn]

I was going to type a longer response, but @Mieser has already covered it. Any major manufacturer (Fox, King, Icon, Radflo, etc) that produces a 2.5 remote resi shock will work similarly so long as the shock tune is appropriate. Any of your 2.0 off-the-shelf shocks that cost <$150 a piece are not in the same category.

I think you should be looking at 2.5 remote resis with the understanding that you will go over your budget by a bit. If shocks are all you can afford... measure your wheel travel, buy an appropriate shock (some place like accutune who will valve them for you), trim where necessary, and set your bumps.

 

[jtwopark]

After many many hours under the chassis of the 80, 35" tires are where it is at its happiest. 33" tires will work but one will need to stop the compression as well as for 37" tires.

I was not totally happy with what I have and thus searching for another solution

Been asking around but I guess it still is an uncharted territory





Never mind the jeep, just think of the suspension aspect of it!

 

[scottryana]

I think the Jeepspeed video is a good comparison as they are regulated to 10 and 12" of travel basically what we have to work with on an 80. What you are looking for doesn't exist in a packaged format but I don't think it would be that hard to get there. Again sacrifices to other aspects will have to be made. Look at the 4 door jeep in your video, he has the exhaust exiting 1/2 way up the rear door so I imagine all of that space is useless. Not to mention, no body or glass brings the weight down. The 80's issue is luxury = weight. Start stripping stuff out and the 80 will fly like a bumblebee.

 

[jtwopark]

LAND CRUISER 80
20C001-201 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.0 DIA. STEERING STABILIZER
20AB001-101 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.0 DIA. BUMP STOPS
20AB001-102 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.0 DIA. BUMP STOPS
25001-256 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 0-2" LIFTS
25001-257 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 0-2" LIFTS
25001-351 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 3-5" LIFTS
25001-352 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 3-5" LIFTS
25001-309 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 6" LIFTS
25001-310 LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 6" LIFTS

25001-256A LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 0-2" LIFTS W/ADJUSTER
25001-257A LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 0-2" LIFTS W/ADJUSTER
25001-351A LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 3-5" LIFTS W/ADJUSTER
25001-352A LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 3-5" LIFTS W/ADJUSTER
25001-309A LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 FRONT 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 6" LIFTS W/ADJUSTER
25001-310A LAND CRUISER 80 89-97 REAR 2.5 DIA. REMOTE RESERVOIR SHOCK FOR 6" LIFTS W/ADJUSTER

I would probably be more willing to spend my money on the Kings and up my budget than running the Fox or Icon stuff. We have all King suspension on the car also.

Still wanting to know some actual part numbers and or what others have used and done.

 

[KliersLC]

We are Racing The Baja 1000 In an 80 Series Land Cruiser!!!

I don't think there is a build thread on mud, but you may be able to get some lessons learned from the folks involved or get a copy of the Toyota Trails issue for details.

 

[Mieser]

I think the Jeepspeed video is a good comparison as they are regulated to 10 and 12" of travel basically what we have to work with on an 80. What you are looking for doesn't exist in a packaged format but I don't think it would be that hard to get there. Again sacrifices to other aspects will have to be made. Look at the 4 door jeep in your video, he has the exhaust exiting 1/2 way up the rear door so I imagine all of that space is useless. Not to mention, no body or glass brings the weight down. The 80's issue is luxury = weight. Start stripping stuff out and the 80 will fly like a bumblebee.

Pretty much this, here are some other places we could learn a few things from that run solid axles with limited travel....Dodge Ram, Jeep JK, etc. Those have a lot of support in the aftermarket for go faster type suspensions.

At some point people will need to make a choice. You are not going to be able to package much more shock than a single 2.5 bypass unless you start cutting and caging. On the J80 chassis the rear frame is wide enough that you are going to have to get very creative to get much more shock on the rear suspension.

 

[Mieser]

Some stuff to think about, sorry to have to use a 'Jeep' for a reference.





This was an interesting study done by Teraflex a few years back when they where looking into 'go-faster' type suspension stuff for JK/JKU's. It was interesting to see a before and after comparison on the same section of road, stock vs modified. This is basically a suspension system that is based on the idea that having more uptravel is good vs tire size. They actually push the travel bias past 50/50. I believe they are running an 11" travel shock and have the suspension set for 8" up and 3" down. They are also running fairly long travel foam based bumpstops, limiting straps, etc. All this is based around one of the cheaper Fox 2.0 aluminum body remote resi shocks. You can see that a 2.0 shock might take the vehicle a bit further than people are thinking.....

 

[Box Rocket]

Not quite a direct comparison given that the 200 Series has IFS but Canguro Racing has been competing (and winning) their class for a few years now. The have been racing the Baja 1000 in the "Stock Full" class which requires all factory suspension links, steering etc, but allows for upgrades to shocks. The truck is running King coilovers with a secondary bypass shock in the front and rear. This truck is pushing almost 20 offroad races on the chassis. It has won the Stock Full class in the 1000 prior to being purchased by Canguro Racing (all made of up Cruiserheads that don't have limitless budgets or massive factory backed sponsors). The first year with Canguro, it took 2nd in Class behind the Toyota Factory/LongBeach Racers built TRD Pro Tundra by only a small margin.

Just this past weekend it raced the Best in the Desert Series Vegas to Reno (longest offroad race in the US) and raced in the Class 8000 Unlimited class. Basically full sized trucks/SUVs with unlimited suspension. Canguro is still racing on Toyota factory links, axles, steering but won the Unlimited class over the weekend.

Having had a bit of time co-driving in the truck and much more time chasing with the team, I believe the 80 Series can be built to compete in these classes and 50-65mph should be reasonably within reach. The Solid front axle isn't ideal, but as has been mentioned classes like JeepSpeed etc have vehicles running solid axles and they do well. The Canguro 200 Series will hit over 100mph on some sections of race course. For an 80 (or any truck for that matter) I think that keeping the truck as low as possible is important. Open up the wheel wells to allow more up travel. It's very common to have much more down travel available, even on trophy trucks. Cruisers just have a lot of heavy body that's up pretty high and stability can be compromised so keeping it low will help.

Obviously proper safety equipment is needed. Stripping out as much weight as possible is important, especially when you're adding in a bunch of weight with a full race spec'd cage. You'll definitely want stronger coil buckets/shock towers with lots of bracing. If you're serious, I personally think airbumps are worthwhile. Foam bumps may do the trick, but are not ideal.

Finish line of the 2014 Baja 1000 with the TRD Pro Tundra and Canguro Racing 200 crossing the finish line ~40 min apart after 1200 miles.








Livery change for 2016


Crossing the finish line Saturday night to win the Vegas to Reno Class 8000 Unlimited class


rear setup




If the goal is just to build a "prerunner" that is capable of good speed but still needs to have full interior/seats then the approach would be a bit different but still follow similar principles.

 

[Mieser]

If you're serious, I personally think airbumps are worthwhile. Foam bumps may do the trick, but are not ideal.

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that foam bumps are going to do what a set of $700 bumps will do.

BUT.....I don't think many people really need to spend $700 per axle for a bump package. They can spend the money how they want, but people should be realistic with what they expect for performance. You are NOT going to get race vehicle performance without spending MANY hours testing and tuning. Some of the specialty places might get you 60% there with a bolt on package, but that last 40% is basically going to be tuning that is specific to the vehicle and driver.

If you're really thinking about running 50-60mph in the dirt, we should really be talking about a cage and helmets too.

 

[CoffeeGeek]

Ultimately, Everything is about compromises. The OP wants to stay under 1k, I don't know if even the multi thousand systems allow to safely travel at the speeds he wants on KOH type desert terrain in an 80. Also at those speeds on rough terrain you may want to be fully caged.

I have read an interesting review article in the 2014 Overland Journal gear guide guide where they compared several of the "budget" shock offerings. The shocks were tested in a lab, on road, an offroad course and offroad desert run on a slightly lifted four door jeep JK. The shocks included the ARB OME, Bilstien 5100, Rancho RS9000XL, Fox 2.0 and Icon 2.0 smooth bodies. All shocks tuning were tested as supplied by manufacture and Joe Bascal did the onroad and offroad course test section. Lab tests were performed on Icons dyno and included a test that simulated heavy use condition by heating shocks to test fade.

Essentially the results of the test were quite surprising and counter to what one would think with the shock hype on the inter web forum world. The Bilstien 5100 ran hot with hard driving and had some fade but were predictable otherwise with good control. Old Man Emu had good overall damping but were harsh and probably suited more for heavy loads. Fox had very good construction Amd tested well on test bench, on vehicle testing showed that they were softer than test bench results indicated with the vehicle rolling and had slow response to steering input, they had to reduce the speed on desert section due to axle chatter and heave outs. The Icon had a harsh ride and could feel vibrations in in light terrain but performed well with hard driving giving feeling they could put the jeep where they wanted it to go. The Rancho is a twin tube adjustable compression dampening shock. They set it to middle of the range for all testing as well as ran it all the way up and fully turned down to lightest setting. In the lab it had the highest level of dampening initially but did fade considerably with heat although with all the headroom it still stayed in the firm area. Offroad desert test did not heat up the shock though as it was the coolest running of the group, they ended up being able to drive faster and push harder with this shock due to the limited heave out and body roll. They stated it cornered sports car flat.

We frequently hear that twin tubes overheat, but the results showed compared to the smooth bodies they operate at a lower temp. I think the foxes showed what we frequently hear about a smooth onroad ride and the Icons about their over firm ride. The Rancho had the firmest dyno results on slow velocity compression, high velocity compression and high velocity rebound when tested mid way on setting. At softest setting they were too soft and for,est setting more appropriate for a heavy load. They were also the most expensive of the test shocks.

it would be interesting if a group of 80 owners were able to get together and test the various off the shelf offerings on a commonly equipped 80.

When I bought my shocks (before the article) I wanted the TJM adjustables but did not end up with them as I rushed myself to make an order. I wonder how they would have fared in comparison to the regular TJM shocks I ended up with.

As always different tuning results in different performance. It will be interesting what King comes up with in the 2.0 offering. I wonder if Fox is as soft on the LC as it was found to be on the JK.

Overland journal had promised an comparison review on remote reservoir shocks. Y subscription has lapsed this year and I don't know if they have finally delivered the article.

 

[Mieser]

I don't think any out of the box shock tune is going to get you there....even in the more exotic 2.5 stuff. There are just too many variables in vehicle weights, spring rates, stance, etc.

I'd start by taking a careful look at the spring package, room for tires, uptravel, and shock length available.

Then you need to expect some time actually tuning the shocks. If you don't want to do that yourself, you need to go to a test and tune type event with a shop that provides that kind of service.

 

[jtwopark]

Treading lightly here but King is out in the desert near Barstow 2 times a week and they welcome anyone to come and talk and wrench shocks

 

[napir]

Tracking (and a shameless bump).

As of now, shocks seem relatively easy to figure out, considering all the high-end bolt-on solutions can probably be tuned/re-tuned. Get together with a shock tuner with your wants and needs and let them do their magic.

I'm wondering if more can be done on the spring side of things. I spoke with Deaver a few years back about making a custom spring for the 80, but never went through with it for a few reasons. They will do one-off springs starting at about $200 a corner for a single rate, but I'm not knowledgable enough to know what kind of spring rates (especially for a dual rate spring) I would need for my setup.

If I go with a custom tuned shock on all corners, I'm not convinced some off-the-shelf OMEs or whatever are the best thing to match them with, but I'm admittedly ignorant in this department.

 

[Mieser]

Tracking (and a shameless bump).

As of now, shocks seem relatively easy to figure out, considering all the high-end bolt-on solutions can probably be tuned/re-tuned. Get together with a shock tuner with your wants and needs and let them do their magic.

I'm wondering if more can be done on the spring side of things. I spoke with Deaver a few years back about making a custom spring for the 80, but never went through with it for a few reasons. They will do one-off springs starting at about $200 a corner for a single rate, but I'm not knowledgable enough to know what kind of spring rates (especially for a dual rate spring) I would need for my setup.

If I go with a custom tuned shock on all corners, I'm not convinced some off-the-shelf OMEs or whatever are the best thing to match them with, but I'm admittedly ignorant in this department.

There is also a place in Kansas....Coil Spring Specialties...that will custom wind springs.

Coil Spring Specialties

They have helped with a few custom Toyota 4-runner projects on a few different boards. Price is suppose to be about the same at $200 a spring or so. They are custom though, no take backs, returns, redos.

I am looking at having them make a set of rear springs for my 80-hybrid build. I suspect that the stock 150lb/in springs are going to be too stiff. I might be surprised, I can try them for free. Maybe 20 years of use lightened them up a bit....

Figuring out a linear spring rate isn't that bad. Trying to develop a dual rate is much more challenging. Personally, I would go with linear spring with a straight rate. I know that there are some battles with packaging a coil on the 80-series rear suspension. Keeping enough free length in the spring, at an acceptable rate, and without blocking the coil at full bump could be interesting.....especially at some spring rates that are common on heavy 80s.

 

[scottryana]

Oh wow, you're going to have to let me know how this goes! I would have definitely done a custom coil.

There is also a place in Kansas....Coil Spring Specialties...that will custom wind springs.

Coil Spring Specialties

They have helped with a few custom Toyota 4-runner projects on a few different boards. Price is suppose to be about the same at $200 a spring or so. They are custom though, no take backs, returns, redos.

I am looking at having them make a set of rear springs for my 80-hybrid build. I suspect that the stock 150lb/in springs are going to be too stiff. I might be surprised, I can try them for free. Maybe 20 years of use lightened them up a bit....

Figuring out a linear spring rate isn't that bad. Trying to develop a dual rate is much more challenging. Personally, I would go with linear spring with a straight rate. I know that there are some battles with packaging a coil on the 80-series rear suspension. Keeping enough free length in the spring, at an acceptable rate, and without blocking the coil at full bump could be interesting.....especially at some spring rates that are common on heavy 80s.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Forget the budget, poor man always pays twice.

12" front bypasses and coil overs.

Rear 2.5 bypasses 12" with dual rate coils.

Heavy rear sway bar.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Along with plated steering box [as per coil over pic] welded front panhard rod mount, heavy duty steering arms, 36mm sector shaft 105 06 on box and pitman arm, HD lower rear arms, and some bracing on the housings.

The best part of the bypasses we have made in the pics of previous post is built in hydro bump zone once the piston goes past the manifold.

We run these and our CDC as anyone who has ridden in "SNOWY" or #worwgn knows, this set up excels in these conditions, and we do it for days here, at 8000lb or more.

As for running 2.0's to do this, long term, poor man always pays twice.... In the old days we used to run twin 2.0s per corner for this type of running. But the ride the rest of the time was compromised.

Twin tube generics . . . lets not even entertain those in this thread

 

[scottryana]

We need a video of a coilover and bypass setup out running through the Australian desert at speed!

 

[Box Rocket]

Along with plated steering box [as per coil over pic] welded front panhard rod mount, heavy duty steering arms, 36mm sector shaft 105 06 on box and pitman arm, HD lower rear arms, and some bracing on the housings.

The best part of the bypasses we have made in the pics of previous post is built in hydro bump zone once the piston goes past the manifold.

We run these and our CDC as anyone who has ridden in "SNOWY" or #worwgn knows, this set up excels in these conditions, and we do it for days here, at 8000lb or more.

As for running 2.0's to do this, long term, poor man always pays twice.... In the old days we used to run twin 2.0s per corner for this type of running. But the ride the rest of the time was compromised.

Twin tube generics . . . lets not even entertain those in this thread

Giddyup!

 

[Mieser]

Along with plated steering box [as per coil over pic] welded front panhard rod mount, heavy duty steering arms, 36mm sector shaft 105 06 on box and pitman arm, HD lower rear arms, and some bracing on the housings.

This is some great info...

What are you doing for heavy duty steering arms on the 80 series?