Vendor - Trail Tailor

Bluetribal

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I am prepping for a trip to Moab in March and in doing so I new I was going to need some real front tow points.

At the time I was ordering a custom wood sign from the vendors section and noticed @reevesci had ordered a sign and I had been talking with him about some parts for my old 80 Series in the past. He had a website now www.trail-tailor.com and I saw he was offering a front tow hook for the 200 Series that if turned sideways would be similar to what we need on the GX.
200 Series Front Tow Mounts

Anyway FFwd just a couple of weeks and he is currently finished his design and will be getting quotes from his fab shop this week to provide pricing. Bolt kits have been ordered and will be for sale separately, options are always great! The first run will be raw steel and limited to just 15 so get in line right behind Me! If they sell well then he will probably offer the next batch with powder coat, maybe red like the 200 Series ones?

Specs:
1/2" Grade 70 Steel
Laser Cut

Bolt Kit:
Grade 10.9 Zinc plated

Rendering:
 
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TRAIL TAILOR

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Treaty Oak makes something similar as well: Treaty Oak Offroad 120 Series Recovery Point
Treaty oak also tests for failure strength and tensile rating, etc.


All of my tow point products have tensile, elongation and metallurgical certified tests papers with every batch I run. I can trace my steel elements all the way back to the mines they were excavated from. Also, all of my steel is NAFTA domestic (USA, CND and MEX), also proven by the certified reports.

From what I can tell, from internet research, all others use A36 mild steel and ARB is the only one to raise the bar to meet a US equivalent of a Grade 50. Right off the bat my steel is almost twice as strong, not to mention the eye thickness on my mount is approx. 50% thicker than others I've seen, including the one you linked above.

J
 
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All of my tow point products have tensile, elongation and metallurgical certified tests papers with every batch I run. I can trace my steel elements all the way back to the mines they were excavated from. Also, all of my steel is NAFTA domestic (USA, CND and MEX), also proven by the certified reports.

From what I can tell, from internet research, all others use A36 mild steel and ARB is the only one to raise the bar to meet a US equivalent of a Grade 50. Right off the bat my steel is almost twice as strong, not to mention the eye thickness on my mount is approx. 50% thicker than others I've seen, including the one you linked above.

J
I'm simply advising of an existing product, not arguing its superiority.

Cheers!
 

Bluetribal

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Treaty Oak makes something similar as well: Treaty Oak Offroad 120 Series Recovery Point
I haven't heard of this vendor or product. Looks like a straight copy of the Mark's 4wd recovery points out of Australia which are the only ones I knew about and you would be looking at $80 in shipping from the land of OZ.

I don't think T.T. Will cost more than Treaty Oak plus his will be stronger. So I am stoaked with this offering from Trail Tailor.
 

TRAIL TAILOR

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M,

I just sent the files off to the laser cutter for quoting. I'm looking at running 15 sets for a feeler run, bare metal only. We are in the process of finishing up all orders and moving to Redding, CA. So, time and space are getting very limited.

If they sell well, I'll make more and get some powdered as well.

Andrea is looking for a GX470 now and if she does buy one; bumpers, racks and sliders will be added to the T-T menu.

J
 
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I haven't heard of this vendor or product. Looks like a straight copy of the Mark's 4wd recovery points out of Australia which are the only ones I knew about and you would be looking at $80 in shipping from the land of OZ.

I don't think T.T. Will cost more than Treaty Oak plus his will be stronger. So I am stoaked with this offering from Trail Tailor.
I have the Treaty Oak points along with most people on GXOR. I can stand behind the fact that they are a outstanding product and are designed with the GX in mind. I'm not familiar with Trail Tailor at all but I'd be careful about stating that one product is stronger than the other without 100% confirmation of that.
 
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I have the Treaty Oak points along with most people on GXOR. I can stand behind the fact that they are a outstanding product and are designed with the GX in mind. I'm not familiar with Trail Tailor at all but I'd be careful about stating that one product is stronger than the other without 100% confirmation of that.
Ultimate strength of one particular part is also not necessarily relevant - what matters is the weakest link in the whole chain. Recovery straps, shackles, frame mounts all play a factor as well. If one mount can handle 100k lbs and another can handle 70k lbs but you're using a strap with a breaking strength of 50k lbs, who cares :p

Regardless, it's good to see more options out there!
 

Bluetribal

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I have the Treaty Oak points along with most people on GXOR. I can stand behind the fact that they are a outstanding product and are designed with the GX in mind. I'm not familiar with Trail Tailor at all but I'd be careful about stating that one product is stronger than the other without 100% confirmation of that.
I don't blame you for having those tow hooks and saving $80 on shipping over the other offering in OZ.
But in this case if the steel is thicker and quality known and the bolts are a higher grade I am willing to go out on that limb. And I am happy to state my personal opinion that it is stronger based on the facts provided to me.
 
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I don't blame you for having those tow hooks and saving $80 on shipping over the other offering in OZ.
But in this case if the steel is thicker and quality known and the bolts are a higher grade I am willing to go out on that limb. And I am happy to state my personal opinion that it is stronger based on the facts provided to me.
That's understandable if all the facts are provided but they weren't. You implied that the Treaty Oak product was a copy so you were also doing a little bit more than stating an opinion. It was stated as well that nobody in the US but ARB had grade 50 steel which is incorrect. Treaty Oak points are grade 50 Steel. Metallurgic papers and certs are available for these points also so quality is known for BOTH products.

I'm all for vendors getting into the GX market but I just like to see the facts stated and I feel it's a stretch to go trashing another product in favor of one that doesn't seem to have made it off the drawing board yet.

In terms of hardware grade...well we can debate the purpose of that until the cows come home..
 

Bluetribal

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You are getting my post and the vendors post mixed up.
I stated that it looked like a copy. That is not a fact it is an opinion.

And my basis for stronger is based on the grade of the bolts by the two offerings.
And the fact that Trail Tailor is using what he considers superior steel to most other companies. So I am still out on that limb keep bringing the axe. :p

I am not trashing anything, I don't blame someone for just copying what is proven to work. And there is no way I could prove this unless I had both tow hooks in my hands. But I applaud those who go to the next level to improve on a design which I believe T.T. Has done. And at first glance I stand by T.O. appearing to just copy the design.
 
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I don't care about cutting your limb down. Stand out there all you want. It's not about the product of T.T as I'm sure it will be a great one. I do know where I want my failure point at though.

I will however speak my peace in that I believe the things you stated and continue to state about someone else's product are just flat wrong. You even stated that you had never seen or heard of the product yet you took it upon yourself to deem it inferior and a copy. I'm not sure how you do that without absolutely no knowledge of it other than hardware grade but to each his own.
 

TRAIL TAILOR

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I don't care about cutting your limb down. Stand out there all you want. It's not about the product of T.T as I'm sure it will be a great one. I do know where I want my failure point at though.

I will however speak my peace in that I believe the things you stated and continue to state about someone else's product are just flat wrong. You even stated that you had never seen or heard of the product yet you took it upon yourself to deem it inferior and a copy. I'm not sure how you do that without absolutely no knowledge of it other than hardware grade but to each his own.

I know for a fact that the weak link is the frame and capture nuts when it comes right down to it. Trying to make the most substantial and strongest bearing joint is the key for the design. The bolt up creates a single shear plane as well which is the weakest as well unfortunately.

Hardware... yes its up for interpretation. Here's how I qualify it to myself.

For my designs and most AISC structural designs a 1.5-2X factor for area elongation of fastener is the field rule of thumb. Most AISC/ASTM specs are based on the shape and size of hole the bolt will be used in and based on a .7 to .5 multiplier in most cases. So for a 1/2" bolt in 1/2" steel (of equal strength) with a 120ksi yield (bolt) the rule of thumb for the elongation shear value is 60ksi.

So a grade 5 or 8.8 would be sufficient, but that extra 3500# of rating is very appealing for $3.18 of extra cost for grade 10.9 fasteners to me and most others I've ever dealt with. But, more than likely the frame will fail before the bolts..

Single shear of a 1/2" grade 5 ~8.8 bolt is 14136.5#

Single shear of a 1/2" grade 8 ~10.9 bolt is 17670.6#

At the end of the day I overbuild most every thing, years of engineering review for projects and QC inspection, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

J
 
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I know for a fact that the weak link is the frame and capture nuts when it comes right down to it. Trying to make the most substantial and strongest bearing joint is the key for the design. The bolt up creates a single shear plane as well which is the weakest as well unfortunately.

Hardware... yes its up for interpretation. Here's how I qualify it to myself.

For my designs and most AISC structural designs a 1.5-2X factor for area elongation of fastener is the field rule of thumb. Most AISC/ASTM specs are based on the shape and size of hole the bolt will be used in and based on a .7 to .5 multiplier in most cases. So for a 1/2" bolt in 1/2" steel (of equal strength) with a 120ksi yield (bolt) the rule of thumb for the elongation shear value is 60ksi.

So a grade 5 or 8.8 would be sufficient, but that extra 3500# of rating is very appealing for $3.18 of extra cost for grade 10.9 fasteners to me and most others I've ever dealt with. But, more than likely the frame will fail before the bolts..

Single shear of a 1/2" grade 5 ~8.8 bolt is 14136.5#

Single shear of a 1/2" grade 8 ~10.9 bolt is 17670.6#

At the end of the day I overbuild most every thing, years of engineering review for projects and QC inspection, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

J
I understand your reasoning for wanting to design the strongest product that you can and I understand how you use a particular metal and hardware grade to do that.

I find it hard to agree with the idea though. We know that there is always and will always be a failure point. If enough force is applied something WILL fail. I think we can agree on that? As the owner of the vehicle I have the ability to choose in this instance where I would rather that failure point be. I personally would much rather see your points or your hardware fail than my frame so with that in mind it would seem that going up to grade 10.9 you are only increasing the chance that the failure point becomes the frame.

If you can convince me why it's better for my frame to fail then I'm all ears...
 
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