Build The "Red Rocket" Troopy

[theglobb]

How long did you drive with the broken bell housing? To me it looks like the bolts have been wearing for a while, likely that is part of the noise you've been hearing. Is your clutch and pressure plate Toyota or Isuzu?

Hard to tell from the photos and video, is there significant wear on the tips of the fingers on the pressure plate? How do the springs in the clutch disc look? Any looseness on the input shaft bearing? Wear on the input shaft snout?

My adapter plate related clutch failures were a bit different but the misaligned pressure plate and wallowed out bolts and dowel pin holes leads me to suspect a similar culprit. In my case the clutches I use are specced for a gas V6, so the weak point is the disc rather than the pressure plate or its bolts. I also had a bronze pilot bushing at first instead of a bearing, so my bushing wore out before it totally destroyed the input shaft, though there was some wear. My input shaft bearing was shot after the second clutch.
Clutch 1:
View attachment 4178039

View attachment 4178040

Clutch 2:
View attachment 4178041

View attachment 4178042

I drove for roughly 120 miles or so while towing a load to the scrapyard and back. At this point I had figured it was just a motor mount and figured there wasnt too much harm to be done to just get it home on a bad mount. Flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate are all isuzu, I have an adapter between the isuzu bellhousing to the toyota trans. No noticeable wear to the input shaft on the trans.

Those photos of your own carnage are pretty crazy! I'll put mine below, but I don't believe there is much carnage to be seen here. Then again I am ignorant.

Chicken or egg right?

Im just guessing, but I think it's probably and alignment issue. Those bolts look like they've work for awhile

Am I correct in only seeing 1 alignment dowell pin on the flywheel? That could allow that pressure plate to shift. If there is 2, how was the fit? Are they loose or worn? I know on mine, I have to pry it off as the dowel pins are a snug fit to hold it.

Isuzu flywheel or toyota? same for pressure plate?

So a working theory by me....missing dowel pin or loose dowel pin allows pressure plate movement. That causes noise/chatter and vibrations maybe you thought and felt were throwout bearing. Time goes on it moves more and more. Possibly the grinded spot on the bellhousing is the weak spot and starts cracking due vibrations the bang, big fracture.


Edit: Looking at this photo here.


View attachment 4178260

That looks like the only dowel, and it looks like it’s not the right size for the pressure plate. That would absolutely let that pressure plate move around. Especially if only 1 dowel.

With a new pressure plate, if that hole is too big for the dowel, you could maybe weld it shut, then grind flat and drill the right size hole for the dowel. And make sure it has 2 dowels

I went back and see you are using Isuzu flywheel and pressure plate.

Adding again, you are for sure missing a dowel pin on the top here.

View attachment 4178355


Your flywheel photo shows 2 when you sanded it.
View attachment 4178359

I can only see 1 here. Its hard to see, but I'm wondering if the dowel pin holes were too large, that allowed the pressure plate to rotate and knock the dowel pin loose which allowed it to move even more.

View attachment 4178360

Full conspiracy here....any impact marks on the inside of the bellhousing? Possible the dowel fell out, ricocheted and smacked the bellhousing? Loud rattle noises? The bell housing would show signs of it bouncing around.

Some REALLY impressive detective work here... I don't know the last time I've seen these photos or what page they would even be on of this thread. Wow!

Here's the remaining dowel

And here's one I found laying on the ground, must have fallen out when I split the bellhousings and I didn't notice. Thanks so much for the attentive eye. You are spot on. (also in this video is clutch spring noise? Don't know if that's normal or not)

I'll get a photo but there are a couple little pings here and there inside the bellhousing. Definitely from the dowel flying around. There was also a noise that started a little after the crack started (which I thought was my exhaust rubbing against something). Later, I narrowed it down to coming from inside the bellhousing. Definitely the dowel pinging around. There aren't that many marks inside the bellhousing and the dowel isn't too chewed up, I'm guessing that means the twisted pressure plate bolts and such are a recent development. the crack formed, threw everything out of balance, threw the dowel out of the flywheel, and then the pressure plate started twisting through the bolts and remaining dowel. This is also just a conspiracy, I could be totally wrong or have the series out of order. My question is regardless, why would a dowel come out? Especially if it happened before my housing split before anything was horribly wrong, thus possibly causing the housing to split?


Now another reason to support that theory is in the photo below... yes, that is a hole in the bellhousing where I ground totally through it for clearance. There was JB Weld SteelStik covering up the hole. If I could go back in time and slap Johnathan 4 years ago, I would. What an idiot I was, AND THAT'S NOT THE ONLY SPOT!

Used a die grinder to cut into the alum on both sides of the bellhosuing in prep for a first tig pass

and some preheating before aswell.

 

[theglobb]

Definitely from the dowel flying around. There was also a noise that started a little after the crack started (which I thought was my exhaust rubbing against something). Later, I narrowed it down to coming from inside the bellhousing. Definitely the dowel pinging around.

 

[Owyhee Jackass]

Are those Crocs OSHA approved for hot work? Probably since they're Red, White and Blue...Merica!

 

[FJBen]

I’d say you mostly solved it! Hopefully the welding goes good. That definitely was a dowel flying around in there . I had a few free minutes in between a meeting so I decided to test my theory by looking back in your thread.

Did you notice the noise before or after the crack? I guess it might be hard to tell which caused which with that cutout you did on the bell housing.

I would get a new pressure plate and dowels and make sure they are all snug fitting together, no slop or ability to spin when just on the dowels then you should be good to go. I think you should probably replace that clutch disc as well. I’m pretty sure those shouldn’t be “loose” making noise outside the truck like that.

Those springs absorb when the clutch starts gripping as that center hub twists from the outer portion/friction material. If those are loose, they will rattle and I’d imagine start shuddering/chattering.

I would also doublecheck all motor/transmission mounts.

 

[jblueridge]

Do you have a way to heat soak and stress relieve after welding? Will it fit in your oven?

 

[bj70bc]

just build a plywood box around it and shove the tiger torch in there... with some common sense

 

[Broski]

just build a plywood box around it and shove the tiger torch in there... with some common sense

just build a plywood box around it and shove the tiger torch in there... with some common sense

I think that bad boy cooled down yesterday

 

[theglobb]

I think that bad boy cooled down yesterday

You'd be spot on. Didn't wanna take up too much of my friend's father's time, or gas, and he only had 4 aluminum filler rods. Just got him to do a pretty hot pass around the entire outside crack. Wanted all the nasty cast contaminants to float to the top. Seemed to have done its job, check out the welds after a bit of grinding down.

Put a die grinder to the tig pass, then went to my old work and spoolgunned up the bellhousing inside and out. Not the prettiest but for cast aluminum I'm not too disappointed.

I’d say you mostly solved it! Hopefully the welding goes good. That definitely was a dowel flying around in there . I had a few free minutes in between a meeting so I decided to test my theory by looking back in your thread.

Did you notice the noise before or after the crack? I guess it might be hard to tell which caused which with that cutout you did on the bell housing.

I would get a new pressure plate and dowels and make sure they are all snug fitting together, no slop or ability to spin when just on the dowels then you should be good to go. I think you should probably replace that clutch disc as well. I’m pretty sure those shouldn’t be “loose” making noise outside the truck like that.

Those springs absorb when the clutch starts gripping as that center hub twists from the outer portion/friction material. If those are loose, they will rattle and I’d imagine start shuddering/chattering.

I would also doublecheck all motor/transmission mounts.

All motor mounts are new, I have an OEM trans mount that is 4 years old now. New pressure plate, clutch, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing should arrive tomorrow from partsouq. I dont know when the crack actually started, I noticed the noise before everything started shaking like crazy. Measured the old dowels and got some new ones from mcmastercarr. I know they are press fit... however, if one already fell out I'm wondering if I should epoxy/jbweld these new ones in? Any reason why I shouldn't do that?

marks on the bellhousing from the dowel flying around

Here it all lays now. Lots of work ahead

Do you have a way to heat soak and stress relieve after welding? Will it fit in your oven?

No oven avalible cause the women of the house didn't want car parts in them. Tale as old as time. I wrapped it up in a towel to hold the heat a little longer and called it "good"

 

[onemanarmy]

Make sure the dowels fit snug in the pressure plate holes so it won't rotate. Possible to weld up the oval'd holes and drill new holes in the current plate?

 

[Broski]

I don’t think epoxy/JB weld is up to the task Dowel pens are cheap and are sized in the thousands
Buy a few sizes and use the ones that fit tight.
It’s the affordable way to go, a new flywheel would be best but I’m guessing that’s not in the cards.

 

[FJBen]

I don’t think epoxy/JB weld is up to the task Dowel pens are cheap and are sized in the thousands
Buy a few sizes and use the ones that fit tight.
It’s the affordable way to go, a new flywheel would be best but I’m guessing that’s not in the cards.

@theglobb This is the right answer here. Make sure the size is right for a tight fit and make sure the pressure plate fits right as well. Any slop between the 2 and you will eventually be in the same boat.

 

[theglobb]

Welp my partsouq order got here: pressure plate, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing... no clutch. I looked back at my email and they sent me a notification that my order had been shipped, 30 minutes later there was another email regarding a refund. No explanation or anything. I'm assuming the part they apparently had in stock (Exedy ISD134), they didn't actually have in stock. Well there is a directly interchangeable clutch, Aisin DG-322 that says they also have plenty in stock. Why they didn't just send another email letting me know the situation and asking if I'd like to pay an extra $9 for the other clutch is beyond me. My dad has had similar situations happen, and they have just frozen his order until he says what to do. My first bad experience with partsouq, kinda upset. Mistakes happen, I hope they make it right because getting that Aisin clutch shipped by them now is $141 + $120 in shipping/tarrifs

My new throwout bearing is also off center, just exactly like my last one 4 years ago... Is this a thing bearing manufacturers do for some reasons? Or have I just hit a streak of bad luck?

Some potentially good news, I gambled and bought a pressure plate for an Isuzu 6BG1, a similar engine in many ways. 2 more cylinders and some other differences here and there. The pressure plate is almost an exact match.

There are some differences though, one of which is kinda concerning. The ID is a little different but that doesn't concern me. There is also that little spring thing on the left-hand side in the photo below, dont know what that's about. And theres also the extra metal collar around the whole thing stamped with CG-305R. Don't know why that's there, I hope it doesn't cause many issues.

Now this is what really concerns me, the difference of how far the springs sit outward. It's about 1/2 an inch shorter on the new one and I'm wondering if that will cause clutch engagement issues.

Below are some photos of where the adapter plate bolts hit the bellhousing. Thus why my ignorant past self ground into the aluminum bellhousing to start with. I may just tap some threads into the plates so I can still bolt everything together without having a nut on the back.

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Make sure the dowels fit snug in the pressure plate holes so it won't rotate. Possible to weld up the oval'd holes and drill new holes in the current plate?

I don’t think epoxy/JB weld is up to the task Dowel pens are cheap and are sized in the thousands
Buy a few sizes and use the ones that fit tight.
It’s the affordable way to go, a new flywheel would be best but I’m guessing that’s not in the cards.

@theglobb This is the right answer here. Make sure the size is right for a tight fit and make sure the pressure plate fits right as well. Any slop between the 2 and you will eventually be in the same boat.

I measured the flywheel holes and pressure plate holes, both check out to 10mm x 24mm. So I went ahead and ordered some 10x24 hardened dowels, I've never messed with dowel pins before. Do I just press/hit them in the hole? I don't really trust them to stay, especially since 1 came out, hence why I was hinting to the epoxy, or maybe some loctite to keep them in place extra well? I appreciate the forewarnings y'all have given me.

I really did not miss any of the guessing what may fit and then running into shipment issues part of the engine swap. Will be very happy once everything is sorted and ready to be installed

 

[theglobb]

Looks like Partsouq isn’t gonna make anything right I wonder if they have switched to some AI controlled automated system since the last time my dad ordered from them and there was a supply issue that then froze his order.

Not trying to come off as whiny. Just figured anyone reading this should be aware of the possible gamble when ordering from Partsouq. (It said they had 8 of these clutches in stock btw)

Before this, I used to go out of my way to order from them, especially when doing a BIG order. Going forward they won’t be getting a single dime from me unless I absolutely have to get a part from them. I know some massive company overseas doesn’t care at all about loosing me as a customer but I do have some moral pride when it comes to dealing scummy business.

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

Does @orangefj45 have clutches that you can use? Terrain tamer does have clutches as I recall.

 

[theglobb]

Didn't think to check, I know @cruiseroutfit has the clutch on their website here Clutch Disc - Fits 1HD/1HZ w/300mm Flywheel Applications (CL60322) - https://cruiserteq.com/clutch-disc-fits-1hd-1hz-w-300mm-flywheel-applications-cl60322/?searchid=0&search_query=CL60322 I sent them an email, and they said they had no idea when it would be back in stock. Can't seem to find it anywhere else here in the states atleast with an online search. I've sent multiple Isuzu dealers the Isuzu part number for the same clutch, no luck. Seems like partsouq is the only place to have the clutch in stock that's easily available online... and with my mind where it is right now regarding them, I'm throwing in my old clutch way before I give them $240 dollars for a $130 clutch.

Update: I broke down and used AI to do parts # cross-referencing. It found an Exedy ISD136U which seems to be the exact same dimensions as the Exedy ISD134. Didn't have much luck finding anything here in the states for sale BUT then I found this ebay listing in Canda. CHEAP! and should be here in 4 days or so. I'm a big hater of AI and almost feel guilty for using it, but that was pretty dang helpful. It just scares me when it's in the wrong people's hands to be used for evil (which it already is)

 

[FJBen]

I remember deep diving into clutches when I was looking for mine. I remember that 4cyl diesel clutches are built differently than 6cyl to handle the torque pulses and vibrations.

Now I didn’t get super far down that hole and bjowett gave me a good deal on a 1KD clutch that worked great.

It appears that Exedy ISD136U is for 4cyl Elf trucks, so I would jump all over that.

 

[jblueridge]

I had similar BS with a mini truck parts supplier. My order sat stalled for weeks since they did not think to program their automated system to send me an email. In the end I was sent things like brackets and screws but the main item was not available. Money wasted.

 

[theglobb]

Instead of drilling and tapping the plasma-cut adapter plates, I figured I'd try angle grinding the nuts in half for the appropriate clearance. Worked well! They just barely fit.

Bolts on all good now

Then I was stuck fighting the dowel pin that was chewed in half by the pressure plate. This photo was of nut #12 that I had welded on cranked all the way up to 160amps with my stick welder. Each time it would just snap the nut off.

Welded some broken pliers onto the welded nut eventually to have something to hit outward with a hammer... no luck. Broke the nut off.

After 1 hour of fighting the dowel, I accepted temporary defeat and went onto other things. Soaked it in a ton of Kroil overnight. Came back this morning and just out of curiosity, grabbed the vice grips and started twisting. It immediately moved and a minute later I had it out. New and old for comparison below.

Installed a new OEM rear main seal

I guess my exhaust was rubbing against my starter pretty good... Nothing some JB weld can't fix She's done pretty good for a 12v starter being fed 24v all the time

Got to use one of my favorite hydraulic materials to remove a bearing.

And last but not least. The closest automotive machine shop near me is about an hour and a half away from me. Well worth the drive to have them resurface the head on that 1FZ 80 series but for a flywheel, no I'm not doing that. Plus I've always wanted to try this.


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I remember deep diving into clutches when I was looking for mine. I remember that 4cyl diesel clutches are built differently than 6cyl to handle the torque pulses and vibrations.

Now I didn’t get super far down that hole and bjowett gave me a good deal on a 1KD clutch that worked great.

It appears that Exedy ISD136U is for 4cyl Elf trucks, so I would jump all over that.

Never knew that! Good to know. I did jump all over that deal. I offered them $130 for 2 Japanese-made clutches. $65 a clutch with free shipping that will be here Monday?!?!?! Crazy, can't beat that.

I had similar BS with a mini truck parts supplier. My order sat stalled for weeks since they did not think to program their automated system to send me an email. In the end I was sent things like brackets and screws but the main item was not available. Money wasted.

Sorry to hear you had a similar story. I've always had great luck with partsouq and figured this was just a mistake... cause it was. Regardless, I was more so surpirsed that they didn't offer any sort of reimbursement or help getting the exactly interchangable part. Hopefully they will eventually update thier sh!tty automated system. No telling how many people that has and will continue to screw over.

 

[bj70bc]

Getting some serious schadenfreude here...

necessity, the original teacher

The schadencruiser rides again

 

[bj70bc]