Stranded 1991 FJ80 named Vera - transmission stopped working (1 Viewer)

[roostabunny]

No dice. Additional kick-down adjustment had no effect.

Going to study up the detailed A440F rebuild threads and my FSM, talk to my transmission guru friend about timing and logistics, and start researching parts. There's a lot in the main FSM, do I also need to find an A440F manual?

To be continued...

 

[Eicca]

No dice. Additional kick-down adjustment had no effect.

Going to study up the detailed A440F rebuild threads and my FSM, talk to my transmission guru friend about timing and logistics, and start researching parts. There's a lot in the main FSM, do I also need to find an A440F manual?

To be continued...

You'll want the A440F manual for sure.

 

[roostabunny]

You'll want the A440F manual for sure.

Found a PDF from a link in another thread.

A440F, A440L Repair Manual Download

I may still look around for a paper copy, but this is a good scan and very readable.

 

[roostabunny]

Side note, the first post in the definitive A440F DIY Rebuild thread paraphrases Transmission guru Rodney (of the flush) as follows: "3rd clutch also controls reverse operations". So, with reverse freewheeling, it seems likely that 3rd would have been where the forward problems kicked in, had I actually tried to drive it.

And in case anyone wonders, yes, I'm reading Part 2 of that DIY rebuild as well, but main lesson seems to be... being at nearly 250K miles, I should replace the Torque Converter during the trans rebuild.

 

[Alleycats]

Wait, have you tried the 'party trick'?

 

[Eicca]

You gotta at least try and drive it, see what happens. A rebuild is already on the table so why not!

 

[roostabunny]

Test drive results: no 3rd.

1st & 2nd work without any drama that I can feel, but on shifting to third I think it's slipping, as rpms race with no apparent push to the wheels.

Putting the shifter in 2 allowed me to cruise along at 40, but I didn't try to get up to 60 in 2nd and try the party trick. I think slipping 3rd and reverse points to clutches and not valve body anyway, right?

 

[Eicca]

Test drive results: no 3rd.

1st & 2nd work without any drama that I can feel, but on shifting to third I think it's slipping, as rpms race with no apparent push to the wheels.

Putting the shifter in 2 allowed me to cruise along at 40, but I didn't try to get up to 60 in 2nd and try the party trick. I think slipping 3rd and reverse points to clutches and not valve body anyway, right?

Sounds like clutches to me. The valve body is applying pressure to them but they're not holding.

 

[roostabunny]

Arranged for a back-up vehicle to give me a bit of time to try to put my bike back together and arrange logistics for an A440F rebuild. I know my friend who offered to help with a rebuild (more like offered to let me help him) has a crap-ton of knowledge and experience rebuilding engines, transmissions, whole cars and bikes, you name it... but I'm not sure how/where he'll want to help... my shop, his shop, his club shop. We've just exchanged texts, I'll talk to him sometime this next week and get a read on logistics and how long he thinks it'll take with two of us who both work full-time during the week (and only one of us who truly knows what we're doing).

Meantime, I'm researching rebuild kits.

Seems like a "master" kit generally includes soft parts, steels, and friction plates.
An overhaul kit leaves out the plates.
And sometimes a middle kit includes the friction plates but not the steels.

My instinct is to play it safe, and get a master kit and a torque converter.

Most kits seem to say 'includes transfer case', which I assume means that there's also some soft bits for the transfer case?

Here are a couple of Master Kit examples...

Transmission Parts by Makco: Master kit, A440F(85- 1/1990) with Transfer Parts

Toyota A440F Master Rebuild Kit Automatic Transmission Overhaul Land Cruiser 1986-92

Transmission Kit,Toyota Landcruiser A440F HJ60, Automatic Transmission Rebuild Kits


This site had the clearest layout of all kit types as well as a great selection of related parts...

A440F , A442F Toyota-Volvo

...including this torque converter:
Transmission Parts by Makco: Torque converter, A440F, A442F (Lock-Up)

...where the TC description for this TC-TO34 model says:
***************************************************************
Diameter - 11.75", Pilot - 1.375", Mount - 6 Pads (8mm x 1.25 Bolts), Splines - 20
Notes - 10.625" Bolt Circle
1985-92 Landcruiser, Suzuki Samurai
Codes: Codes: Some 2M, White Dot
NOTICE: Converters do not qualify for free shipping! Some Converters may require an $80.00 core charge added to order. We will contact you if core charge is required on your converter.
**************************************************************

Just using the Makco prices as a baseline, I figure about $650 shipped for parts.

Anyone have experience with these or other vendors in this arena? Anyone disagree that I should plan to replace all steels and friction plates? Thank you!

 

[roostabunny]

Random note, also cleaned the trans pan shield, which, as I'm sure you can imagine, was caked with grime. Bagged and tagged the bolts because nerd.

Edit: I'll say this, I'm not a fan of oily dirt on stuff, but it sure keeps the weather at bay. This stuff sure doesn't look its age once cleaned up.

View media item 55039

 

[ppc]

You do realize that almost the entire undercarriage and drive line was undercoated from the factory.

 

[roostabunny]

You do realize that almost the entire undercarriage and drive line was undercoated from the factory.

I didn't, but it makes sense now that you say it.

 

[roostabunny]

Found a little better deal on a master rebuild kit at Rock Auto, but they don't have any TO34 torque converters in stock.

1991 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 4.0L L6 Rebuild Kit | RockAuto

Curious if anyone's got experience buying a torque converter for a 3FE/A440F... I'm down to TO34 vs TO46 models.

The TO46 is a lot easier to come by and correspondingly cheaper. Suspiciously, Autozone seems to think that the TO46 is the correct one. I say suspiciously because, years ago when I was replacing burst heater hoses by the side of the road, Autozone's parts computer gave me the wrong hoses until I made them pull up the fiche on a 1990 FJ62. I think they struggle to understand the 3FE+FJ80 combo.

I know it's fascinating reading about parts research so... pictures!

This reman supplier's spec sheet for the TO34 only mentions the A440L. Main difference seems to be a Pilot dimension of 1.375".

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This reman supplier's spec sheet for the TO46 mentions both the A440L (not what I think have) and the A440F (What I think I have) and shows a pilot dim of 1.650".
View media item 55097


Year ranges on this Makco page overlap on 1992, but puts my 1991 in TO34 territory...
View media item 55098
And to make up for all that, here's a kitten showing how perplexed I am. Any thoughts?

View media item 55099

 

[roostabunny]

Couple more data points...

Here's the spec for torque converter install on the A440F -

View media item 55100
What I see there is that the distance is different depending what type of engine you've got. Maybe that's what's causing the year confusion... that there's two different engines that were sold with the A440F?

A440F (with F Engine) - 24.4mm (1") or greater
A440F (With H Engine) - 41.2mm (1.622") or greater
A440L - 16.5mm (.650") or greater

Don't know if this tells me anything about which torque converter is correct, I'm honestly thinking out loud at this point.

 

[roostabunny]

Last thing today - my transmission expert friend (I'll call him Kevin. Cause that's his name.) confirmed that he will help as much as I need, I just need to bring it to him at his shop. He'll work on it and talk me through however much of it I want to do myself, which I'm very excited about. He's got a machine shop that'll clean the case for $30 and any other parts as needed. He also loaned me an ancient Ford Explorer (had 217K on the clock when the ODO stopped working 3 or 4 years ago) to drive in the meantime. Good friend.

So, we're doin' this thing.

I'm going to dawdle Vera over to the coin op car wash in the sunrise hours on Saturday and get some of the grime layer off the bottom then start setting up to drop the tranny in my driveway. Then I got a super busy couple of weeks between work and playing Mister Mom while the Missus chaperones my older daughter on a class field trip, so I may not actually get it dropped and moved over to Kevin's shop till memorial weekend. But hey, my younger daughter loves working on Vera with me, maybe we'll actually make progress while Mommy's on the road.

View media item 55108

 

[Eicca]

Happy to hear good news.

Bump for requested information.

 

[roma042987]

Josh, just came across this thread. Sorry to hear about the trans. Having said that, Im SURE you'll work your way through the repair. Im just a bit curious though, have you thought of using this opportunity to maybe swap everything over to a 4spd out of an fj60? Might be cheaper if you can find the parts priced accordingly.

 

[ufg8r]

Sorry your having trouble Josh. Check this out, if you like Roma's idea there may be an H42 or two available at GSMTR. For Sale - GSMTR flea market

I'll be there and will have my Tundra so could drag it back for you if you think you want to go that route. PM me if you want talk about it.

- Chris

 

[roostabunny]

Josh, just came across this thread. Sorry to hear about the trans. Having said that, Im SURE you'll work your way through the repair. Im just a bit curious though, have you thought of using this opportunity to maybe swap everything over to a 4spd out of an fj60? Might be cheaper if you can find the parts priced accordingly.

Hey, no worries, Roma. While I wish my bike was running as a backup commuter, I'm very fortunate to have a lot of great support on this (Mud and local LC community included), so I'm thinking of it as a learning adventure. Future bragging rights, right? Like when I wrecked my racing bicycle in high school (drafting behind a bus Breaking Away style) and took the unsalvagable wheels as a chance to learn wheel building. Raced two seasons on those wheels, crashed them hard at least once (hard enough to bend the front fork), and I still have them.

OK, when I tell it that way, clearly I was better at wrenching than riding. Sheesh. Anyway...

I hadn't thought about a different transmission, only possibly gambling on a used A440F. By 4-speed, do you mean a manual? Which model trans?

 

[roostabunny]

Sorry your having trouble Josh. Check this out, if you like Roma's idea there may be an H42 or two available at GSMTR. For Sale - GSMTR flea market

I'll be there and will have my Tundra so could drag it back for you if you think you want to go that route. PM me if you want talk about it.

- Chris

Appreciate it Chris, there's already at least one H42 listed on the thread. I'll chat with Roma and consider options.