Stay AWAY from ALCAN SPRING!!!!!!

[crushers]

no, i am not posting to have someone agree with me.
what i am saying is that a leaf pack is made up of lengths of metal.
you add or take away a number of leaves to get the support you want or need.
if you look at the front pack of a 40 series and the rear pack, at least on the truck i am working on now, the front has an extra leaf.
the front and the rears are all the same thickness, same length (except main). the springs are from a well known vendor. the extra leaf up front is to allow for the engine weight.
if you look at a mine 75 and a street 75 and compare the leaves you will find the mine 75 has double the springs, exact same length exact same thickness. the mine truck vendors "add 7 leaves" to allow for the heavier box and cage.

so yes, you "add a leaf". Jetgoof doesn't see to understand how leaf suspension works.
the other option is to build a set using thicker leaves but then you end up with a rougher ride (picture the old 3 leaf Rancho FJ40 kits).

so we have to decide whether to agree with jetboy or crushers?

why do i hear south park theme music?

 

[Jetboy]

no, i am not posting to have someone agree with me.
what i am saying is that a leaf pack is made up of lengths of metal.
you add or take away a number of leaves to get the support you want or need.
if you look at the front pack of a 40 series and the rear pack, at least on the truck i am working on now, the front has an extra leaf.
the front and the rears are all the same thickness, same length (except main). the springs are from a well known vendor. the extra leaf up front is to allow for the engine weight.
if you look at a mine 75 and a street 75 and compare the leaves you will find the mine 75 has double the springs, exact same length exact same thickness. the mine truck vendors "add 7 leaves" to allow for the heavier box and cage.

so yes, you "add a leaf". Jetgoof doesn't see to understand how leaf suspension works.
the other option is to build a set using thicker leaves but then you end up with a rougher ride (picture the old 3 leaf Rancho FJ40 kits).

I agree completely! There's no way that springs could be made of different metals, thicknesses, arch, and length. All the same. Just add more. That's why it's such a waste of money to buy lift kits with new springs. The new springs are just the same as the original ones with a few extra leafs added. It's really strange that someone like Alcan doesn't know about this. They had Anvil send his back that were too flat rather than just sending more leafs - think of how wasteful that is when there's no difference. They must really be screwing over their customers. This guy could have just added leafs to his original spring pack to get the lift he wanted - and great ride quality too... which also has nothing to do with spring pack design. Alcan should have been able to just ship him one or two extra leafs for each side to go with his original packs. Clearly they can diagnose exactly how much is needed based on a phone call and some pictures - being as the leafs are all uniform. It seems like Alcan is really trying to pull one over on all of us by making us buy complete leaf spring packs when we know that they really aren't designed as a "set".

 

[jcardona1]

Finding a way out of a customers issue isn't the right approach...that's me as a vendor talking, not me as a customer. It's a poor business practice to just blow a customer off because they pissed you off or upset you. You're the vendor, you rise above it and try to resolve the issue. You made the product wrong, you remedy it.

Bingo. The only d-bags here are the ones insulting the OP and defending Alcan. I'm glad threads like these get created. IMO a company shines or fails not only by the products they build, but how they handle these difficult customer service situations. And Alcan failed here, miserably. Alcan knew they fxxxed up, and they used the first excuse they could find to bitch out of making it right. They deserve the bad rep. Alcan is one company I will never do business. That is all.

 

[desertpat]

Without having read every post in this thread, I wanna say that Alcan should have gathered sufficient information from the customer about the application and requirements in advance of doing the job. They are the experts.

Clearly in the first post, the criteria was for an extra heavy duty spring with lift, but that's not what the customer got, so it seems.
Actually, the end result was way off what was requested.

I put the onus on the manufacturer, unless the customer provided bad information.

 

[alaskacreeker]

At this point, I feel like this might all be a lost cause. I had already given up on Alcan fixing my springs, providing a partial refund, or even sending the bad ones back. I have nothing now.

Yep, I didn't call Alcan before I sent the springs back. That was my only mistake. They didn't ask the proper questions when they built the springs for me, even though I specifically told them the springs were going on a Toyota motorhome with additional weight (such as kayaks, gear boxes, bumpers, etc).

I told them I would have a 7,000 lb load once I got the rig fixed up. When I put the Alcan springs on, the rig weighed under 6,000 lbs (I hadn't added ANY modifications yet, bone-stock). The ALcans didn't even come close to holding up my motorhome.

The mechanic that installed them shook his head and said they "look like normal Toyota truck springs, way to light."

Anyway, I have nothing now, so you better believe I'm letting people know my experience with Alcan. I personally told the owner I would have a better opinion of Alcan if he at least fixed the springs, but he never even responded.

I'm not on here to bash Alcan, I'm on here to let people know I as given a bogus product by Alcan & they won't fix it.

 

[DSRTRDR]

you still haven't opened a dispute with your credit card company

[shaking head]

 

[re_guderian]

At this point, I feel like this might all be a lost cause. I had already given up on Alcan fixing my springs, providing a partial refund, or even sending the bad ones back. I have nothing now.

I think you're being just a little disingenuous. It's a lost cause, because you never needed Alcan to "fix" your springs, as you had already purchased new replacement ones and hit the road before Alcan even knew WTF was going on, right? The ONLY realistic option you left Alcan with was a refund. Seriously, if they called you while you were driving back to Alaska, and caught up with you in Portland and said, "hey man, we got your springs, what should we do, and can we ship them to you in Vacouver?" you would've said, "pound sand, I already have springs now, I'm on a budget, and don't need a second set of springs for a very, very, very limited run vehicle". And why would they send the bad ones back? They didn't ask you to send them back to them. They're your springs, not theirs, and where would they send them to? Alaska? LA? And oh yeah, this all happened back in April.

...They didn't ask the proper questions when they built the springs for me, even though I specifically told them the springs were going on a Toyota motorhome with additional weight (such as kayaks, gear boxes, bumpers, etc).

I told them I would have a 7,000 lb load once I got the rig fixed up. When I put the Alcan springs on, the rig weighed under 6,000 lbs (I hadn't added ANY modifications yet, bone-stock). The ALcans didn't even come close to holding up my motorhome...

You told us in the first post you had a "tiny" motorhome. Turns out it's one of only 6 like it in the world according to your blog, or something close to that. If I'm understanding what you are and aren't saying, you didn't actually weigh the truck yourself, rather had the previous owner weigh it, correct? or was the 7,000 number not from a scale but from a calculated or estimated weight? If from an actual weight, did you get a printed copy of the weight, or just a verbal? Was that overall wieght, or per axle? So you ordered springs for a truck you didn't have in your posession, and didn't weigh, and are surprised they didn't come out right? Did the local spring shop weigh your truck, or did you just tell them a "toyota motorhome with 7,000 lbs"? I bet either you, your mechanic, or the spring shop put each corner on a scale, no? Post up your emails you sent Alcan, and not just their responses.

Anyway, I have nothing now, so you better believe I'm letting people know my experience with Alcan. I personally told the owner I would have a better opinion of Alcan if he at least fixed the springs, but he never even responded.

You have "nothing" now because you paid to ship your springs back in a huff, and you had already purchased replacements, so you had no need for those springs. You were trying to force Alcan into giving you a refund as the only option, and you did this without contacting them first. Can you see how that mgiht seem a little fishy on the other end?

...I personally told the owner I would have a better opinion of Alcan if he at least fixed the springs, but he never even responded.

So if Alcan had "fixed" the springs immediatly after they got them, you would have done what? You already had new springs made. What would Alcan have done with the springs? Pay to ship them to you somewhere? On who's dime? Yours?

I'm not on here to bash Alcan,

really?

...I'm on here to let people know I was given a bogus product by Alcan & they won't fix it.

Still TBD as to who's error cause the "bogus-ness" of the product. Was your entire order placed over the phone, verbal communication only? If not, post up something a little more concrete like an order form you faxed in, or a confirmation e-mail, etc., because your case relies on a lot of faith in some sketchy, hard-to-believe scenarios. Not that it couldn't have gone down exactly as you are (kind of) saying (you leave out a lot of relevant details), but that it is a very unlikely scenario. Coupled with the information you are not providing, it casts a little doubt on your story, or at least makes it not be as much of a slam-dunk as you would like it to be. There are many other more plausible explanations.

Failing that, open a dispute like Claudia mentioned. Or did you not pay with a cc?

Oh, and I don't blame vendors for not getting involved in crap like this. You are insane if you think there is an upside to it.

 

[lingo]

For starters did anyone point out that the OP has ZERO posts here? Why debate anything that has no fxxxing credibility. For all we know it is a made up story and this schmuck is trying to get some of Alcan springs market share.

To the OP, You are a fxxxing idiot.

 

[semlin]

what guderian said. i'll add that an interesting detail in all this is that the op says in his quoted email to alcan that the cali install shop said they could fix the alcan springs for $350.

On that late-Thursday night when the mechanic finished putting them on, I walked up to the RV and the mechanic was shaking his head, saying "the springs aren't going to work, it's sagging too much." At that exact moment, I was really, really upset because the springs were already 1 day late (I had already bought a hotel for the night and sat in a movie theater all day waiting for them to be installed). The mechanic told me it would be about $350 to fix the springs, and I thought "that's crazy...

...I had no choice but to use all of my money to immediately buy another set of custom springs from a local California spring shop, who did a great job and got it sitting properly.

so he in fact had a choice to spend $350 to fix the springs he had but he opted to start over and spend "all his money" on new springs and also pay shipping to send the alcan springs back and ask for a refund.

that's an interesting decision for somebody to make who is broke and about to head out for alaska.

i wonder how much the calif shop charged for the replacement springs compared to the original price from alcan?

 

[Jetboy]

what guderian said. i'll add that an interesting detail in all this is that the op says in his quoted email to alcan that the cali install shop said they could fix the alcan springs for $350.



so he in fact had a choice to spend $350 to fix the springs he had but he opted to start over and spend "all his money" on new springs and also pay shipping to send the alcan springs back and ask for a refund.

that's an interesting decision for somebody to make who is broke and about to head out for alaska.

i wonder how much the calif shop charged for the replacement springs compared to the original price from alcan?

If he had them fixed locally for $350, would you then say that Alcan should cover the $350 cost to fix them?

Would your answer change if you knew that the springs were simply wrong and did not match the criteria given in the order?

And would it further change if Alcan knew that the guy needed the springs by date X because he was leaving shortly after to go to Alaska?

 

[alaskacreeker]

1) This isn't "a made up" story & I'm not some spring dealer.

2) So what if it's my first post??? How else am I supposed to warn people that maybe something could happen to them to?

3) Credit card dispute isn't an option.

4) The seller had the motorhome weighed. I estimated the "add-on" weight (overestimated it on purpose so this exact situation wouldn't happen). The springs were installed BEFORE all of the add-ons, & didn't even hold the motorhome up.

5) The reason I want the springs fixed is because the motorhome is heavy, and I will probably need a new or refurbished pair of springs 5 years down the road, which is where my "fixed" Alcan springs would come in handy... the ones I already paid to have.

6) The springs shop in California wanted $350 PER SPRING to fix the springs, $700 total... I paid less than that ($650) for their very own springs + an additional $350 to have them installed.

Don't forget, here is what I lost to Alcan...
- $680 for Alcan springs & shipping to me
-$80 return shipping
- $200 in hotel rooms (waiting for other springs to be made)
- $240 to install the Alcan springs
- $240 to take the Alcan springs back off
*** and I don't even have the bad Alcan springs to speak for***

So there, I do have a right to be pissed off. All because I didn't call before I sent them back. Alcan didn't ask me the proper questions to build my springs, they are the professionals, not me. They never asked rear axle weight or had me weigh all 4 corners of the motorhome, and they KNEW it was a motorhome. I guess this is still somehow 100% my fault. To those people personally bashing me, don't say I didn't warn you if something happens to you one day.

 

[re_guderian]

So what weight did the new spring shop come up with? How did it compare to the seller's weight? Can you not see a million plausible problems with not putting your own eyeballs on a truck sitting on a scale? How do you know the seller even weighed the truck at all? have you weighed it since? Post up a scan of the results. All of this casts doubt on the fundamental question, were the Alcan springs defective to start with? There is nothing but your word on that - and you are admittedly no expert on all things leaf-spring. No side-by-side pics of spring packs, no scan of scale readings of motorhome weight, no copy of the order form from you to Alcan, no quoting the weight the new spring shop came up with, etc. etc. all of which should be easy to produce in a normal situation. I can easily make a spring sag and arch negatively to take a picutre...

And by the way, your accomodation costs, and urgency-related costs are irrelevant until the root cause is determined, and even then a non-issue.

Enlighten us as to why a cc dispute is "not an option"?

And I'm not crying for you about not having your springs - you PAID to get rid of them.

 

[re_guderian]

...To those people personally bashing me, don't say I didn't warn you if something happens to you one day.

dude, really?

 

[lingo]

1. I personally know several people that have dealt with Alcan Springs and some have had fitment issues. If you contact them when you find the problem, they have always been right on top of remedying the situation.

2. First post should never be a rant about a known vendor. Period. You look like someone who is just google searching for forums that have mentioned a company in a good way just to drag their name through the mud.

3. Who Fxxxing Cares

4. When having something custom made you NEVER rely on someone else to take measurement accurately. The average public isn't smart enough

5. Even if they did "fix" the springs for you, you would have never been happy with them. It's a psychological thing.

6. You could of added the leaf your self with just a few tools. I have done it. It isn't easy or fun, but it is possible.

Why did you get a hotel? YOU HAD A FxxxING MOTORHOME?

You are still a fxxxing idiot

 

[Jetboy]

1. I personally know several people that have dealt with Alcan Springs and some have had fitment issues. If you contact them when you find the problem, they have always been right on top of remedying the situation.

2. First post should never be a rant about a known vendor. Period. You look like someone who is just google searching for forums that have mentioned a company in a good way just to drag their name through the mud.

3. Who Fxxxing Cares

4. When having something custom made you NEVER rely on someone else to take measurement accurately. The average public isn't smart enough

5. Even if they did "fix" the springs for you, you would have never been happy with them. It's a psychological thing.

6. You could of added the leaf your self with just a few tools. I have done it. It isn't easy or fun, but it is possible.

Why did you get a hotel? YOU HAD A FxxxING MOTORHOME?

You are still a fxxxing idiot

1. Doesn't match the posts IN THIS THREAD FROM OTHER MUD MEMBERS, but i'm sure you have a "friend of a friend" right?

2. Meh. Who cares? The facts are the facts. This is a bull**** deflection tactic. Try again.

3. Potential purchasers of Alcan springs

4. Never rely on a scale... got it. Have to build your own measuring tools and calibrate them to ensure your measurements are correct. Kinda expensive given the task, but the only way to do it.

5. Possibly true. Not sure it matters as Alcan did nothing to remedy the situation.

6. Great insight. You're a leaf spring hacker yourself? I suppose your idea of a proper lift is blocks and u-bolts? You do see the total failure of your logic right? If this were the case, no-one would ever buy custom leaf springs because it would be unnecessary AND alcan could just take the springs apart and re-stock them for other applications and refund at least part of his $. So not only is this not accurate, but it also fails to support your argument even if it were accurate.



Personal insults are childish. Grow up.

 

[bogus one]

Information Request

Did you fill out this form and then talk to them on the phone after they received it, as you're supposed to do?

Secondly, if you only paid $600 some odd for 4 sets of springs, it sounds like you cheaped out somewhere.

My set cost me about $300 a corner, IIRC.

 

[bogus one]

dude, really?

No s***

Ban this Troll

 

[alaskacreeker]

re_guardian... maybe I HAD to get a hotel room because my motorhome was in the shop with the springs off & the mechanic shop wouldn't let me sleep inside the shop, ever think of that?

A DOT certified scale was used, so the weights were as accurate as I knew I could make them. I've since had the motorhome weighed after the Alcan spring failure, and I can confirm that it weighed under 6,000 lbs w/ a full tank of gas & full water tank.

 

[bogus one]

Information Request

Did you fill out this form and then talk to them on the phone after they received it, as you're supposed to do?

Secondly, if you only paid $600 some odd for 4 sets of springs, it sounds like you cheaped out somewhere.

My set cost me about $300 a corner, IIRC.

You're still here, you gonna answer this?

 

[alaskacreeker]

yeah, sorry hillbilly. I only purchased a rear spring set from Alcan, not front springs, so it was about $300 per side. I didn't fill out an online form, I actually called Alcan and spoke directly with the owner when ordering my springs.