The rain certainly plays havoc at GMP due to the steep climbs and large boulders.
Gsmtr 2012
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How about a vote? You guys can run a poll and take the temp of the group.
Some good discussion! Now that I think more about it, it was pretty nice to hop in the truck & drive 5 min to see the rock run trucks. Or run to the track & get pictures, then back to camp for lunch. The place IS pretty convenient to activities throughout the day.
TeddyBoy
Knighted by the King of MUD himself
yep
Now where's everyone's GSMTR pics? barely seen any.
Now where's everyone's GSMTR pics? barely seen any.
CruiseOrlando
Conveniently Enhanced
Here's a compilation video from all the footage taken of my rig:
I'm still working on some of the other videos from the rest of our group.
I'm still working on some of the other videos from the rest of our group.
Couple questions from someone who has chaired GSMTR.
Can you do a rock race at Windrock? If you can does everyone have to pay to go watch it?
Can you have a blind driver event? If you can does everyone have to pay to watch it?
Are the facilities private? Meaning can you control who comes and goes? Can you rent the whole thing out?
How will you handle vendors? Is there a place where they can come and stretch out their legs? They alone are responsible with bringing a third of the participants. You want to make sure they are happy. As well as the clubs who bring a big following.
You will always have people who complain. I as well as STLCA have had those through the years. That being said I'm pretty sure you had more people who liked it than people who didn't. Yes you have some trail issues. But let's be frank. The trails shouldn't be the main reason you come to GSMTR. You could go to any trail system of your liking at any time. People come for the people. The chance to hang out with old friends and gain new ones. That is what GSMTR is about. The people.
The facilities at GMP are the best. Let's be honest. There is nothing that even comes close as far as facilities.
My last comment is on the move. Are you ready to move? You ready to throw out everything you know and learned this year to start all over? If it was my choice I'd say hell no. There would be no way I'd want to have to learn a new venue all over again. Are you and your STLCA members ready to give that much time? Your 3 years into GMP. You will be rolling the dice on getting your core participants wanting to move to another place. Especially when they have just gotten this place figured out. I do think it's a great idea to involve the people in the decision. Thank you for doing this.
What ever decision you do make I'll support it. I love the people and as long as they come I'll be there.
Can you do a rock race at Windrock? If you can does everyone have to pay to go watch it?
Can you have a blind driver event? If you can does everyone have to pay to watch it?
Are the facilities private? Meaning can you control who comes and goes? Can you rent the whole thing out?
How will you handle vendors? Is there a place where they can come and stretch out their legs? They alone are responsible with bringing a third of the participants. You want to make sure they are happy. As well as the clubs who bring a big following.
You will always have people who complain. I as well as STLCA have had those through the years. That being said I'm pretty sure you had more people who liked it than people who didn't. Yes you have some trail issues. But let's be frank. The trails shouldn't be the main reason you come to GSMTR. You could go to any trail system of your liking at any time. People come for the people. The chance to hang out with old friends and gain new ones. That is what GSMTR is about. The people.
The facilities at GMP are the best. Let's be honest. There is nothing that even comes close as far as facilities.
My last comment is on the move. Are you ready to move? You ready to throw out everything you know and learned this year to start all over? If it was my choice I'd say hell no. There would be no way I'd want to have to learn a new venue all over again. Are you and your STLCA members ready to give that much time? Your 3 years into GMP. You will be rolling the dice on getting your core participants wanting to move to another place. Especially when they have just gotten this place figured out. I do think it's a great idea to involve the people in the decision. Thank you for doing this.
What ever decision you do make I'll support it. I love the people and as long as they come I'll be there.
Yes, Yes.
Yes, Yes.
Yes, Yes.
CC has an events area that is private and separate from the main park. It sits adjacent to the camp ground. It has huge pavilion, with power and lights, and plenty of room for vendors to stretch out. Unfortunately CC charges $17 PER person PER day and it completely outrageous for non drivers.
I agree for non-wheeling activities GM was pretty cool. But ultimately isn't it a wheeling event?
I am about 50/50 on the change.
I certainly do like GMP a lot, but only when its dry. Even the short rains wreak havoc on that place. As one MUD member so eloquently put it no so long ago, "When it rains at GMP, I think it rains Astroglide". I'm in a hardcore rig but am a technical crawler, not a throttle junky or rock bouncer and the fun level goes from a high 9 when dry to about a 2 when even a little wet. If CC has stuff wheelable in the rain, that can be a huge plus. Of course I'd just rather not have rain at all, but ya gotta plan for everything. Also GMP is pretty small. The pros and cons of this have been well covered and I agree with what's been said.
I think, once its all boiled down, and after reading Trollhole's excellent comments, all we need is to have a few "trail maintenance days" up there before GSMTR next year. If we make a few more easy trails and a few more hard trails (I have some places in mind) everyone might have more fun. Of course current trail maintenance and better trail markings are just as important and probably easier to accomplish too.
Facilities as a whole are awesome but definitely need a little TLC. Maybe, like STLCA did with the playground recently, we could also have some basic building maintenance days too. Clubs could donate or fund-raise to help the cause. Maybe even start a new thread simply for GSMTR/GMP suggestions of all kinds: Port-A-Johns, new trails & bypasses, trail signage suggestions, electricity & water expansion, rock garden by track, etc. These are just some of my thoughts.
Great discussion! Keep it going. And try to keep GSMTR suggestions & comments here vice in the CC/Windrock ride thread; much easier to keep track of.
I certainly do like GMP a lot, but only when its dry. Even the short rains wreak havoc on that place. As one MUD member so eloquently put it no so long ago, "When it rains at GMP, I think it rains Astroglide". I'm in a hardcore rig but am a technical crawler, not a throttle junky or rock bouncer and the fun level goes from a high 9 when dry to about a 2 when even a little wet. If CC has stuff wheelable in the rain, that can be a huge plus. Of course I'd just rather not have rain at all, but ya gotta plan for everything. Also GMP is pretty small. The pros and cons of this have been well covered and I agree with what's been said.
I think, once its all boiled down, and after reading Trollhole's excellent comments, all we need is to have a few "trail maintenance days" up there before GSMTR next year. If we make a few more easy trails and a few more hard trails (I have some places in mind) everyone might have more fun. Of course current trail maintenance and better trail markings are just as important and probably easier to accomplish too.
Facilities as a whole are awesome but definitely need a little TLC. Maybe, like STLCA did with the playground recently, we could also have some basic building maintenance days too. Clubs could donate or fund-raise to help the cause. Maybe even start a new thread simply for GSMTR/GMP suggestions of all kinds: Port-A-Johns, new trails & bypasses, trail signage suggestions, electricity & water expansion, rock garden by track, etc. These are just some of my thoughts.
Great discussion! Keep it going. And try to keep GSMTR suggestions & comments here vice in the CC/Windrock ride thread; much easier to keep track of.
If you're asking about Windrock, you can go anytime as its a big operation up there and there always wheelers. More ATV's & bikes than trucks, but always something. Prices are the $17 per person per day plus camping or cabin costs. It does get pricey real quick, even for just a weekend run. There is talk of a run up there sometime soon other than this one that just popped up as a GSMTR test run. It'll pop up in the GA forum if it happens.Lowe Toyota said:
That's what I was asking. It's a fairly big cost and time endeavor for me anyway considering the 5 1/2 hr drive and the Tundra clocking about 11-12 mpg with the truck and trailer. I have some work to do on the truck just to be able to turn the key over, let alone wheel anyway. That's why I wouldn't be able to make the run in a couple weeks. If the GA crew is making another run sometime after (prob will be mid-July at least for me to be ready) I'd def be interested.
Concur with the open discussion. Having attended every GSMTR since '97, I may qualify as an addict and complete supporter of the event and the Cruiser community it draws together. A few of my perspectives are
A) Rock race and blind fold driver game - Are these artifacts of the limited trails at GM? If GM had an adequate trail system for the event and the interest of the participants, would everyone be enjoying the trails on Saturday morning rather that eager for an alternate activity. This was certainly the case at Tellico. Everyone was on the trails enjoying and appreciating them right up when the BBQ was served.
B) Comparison of Facilities & Trail Systems - I have not experienced Coal Creek yet so I can not offer a perspective on it yet. However, I have been to GM, Royal Blue and Rausch Creek (& Tellico, but it is closed). I personally find GM lacking and actually expensive for what the area has to offer. Of these three, I consider Rausch Creek to be the best value (great trails and exceptional facilities). Reports I have heard lead me to understand that Coal Creek compares favorably to Rausch and Coal Creek is actively improving its facilties (rather declining/decaying facilities GM). Consequently, I am viewing the potential move to Coal Creek as a positive that may signal continued growth and improvement to future GSMTR's.
A possible aid in seeing what Coal Creek is building to and has to offer may be attending Coal Miner Cruiser Classic in July. It will be held at Rausch Creek and it would offer an opportunity to experience a similar trail system and the best facilities I have ever seen for an event (off-road or just basic family camping for that matter). I have already registered for CMCC'12 and this will be the 5th that I have attended.
I have been to quite a few events over the years and what I have seen that worked is having guided trails for stock/new wheelers. I think gmp is a great park minus winchton churchhill wtf. As much as we have wheeled we are still finding new red trails we haven't ran.
CruiseOrlando
Conveniently Enhanced
What do you mean about Winchton Churchhill?
Off of #42. I think it's trail #43 and it's called Winchin Churchhill IIRC.
CruiseOrlando
Conveniently Enhanced
Yeah, I remember - but what do you mean "WTF?" Are you talking about why is it called that? If so, I guess you didn't get out and look around - there's another path that you could take (maybe it's closed? Although there were signs of at least one rig being up there recently), and it was a rocky mess that you would have probably had to winch up if you'd made it that far 
It's actually not numbered. 43 is a cross hill off 42 that's not on the map but Winchin Church Hill is another obstacle altogether.
Kinda like Crackhead. Another trail that's not on the map or even numbered yet, but it's there if you know where to look.
CruiseOrlando
Conveniently Enhanced
Oh, now I see what you're saying!
yeah, I ran 43 "backwards". Got a little worried about one rock that seemed to want to eat my sidewall but otherwise it was fun. I saw the signs at the top of #42, I thought you were referring to "WTF" is that all about because it wasn't hard to get there via #42.
yeah, I ran 43 "backwards". Got a little worried about one rock that seemed to want to eat my sidewall but otherwise it was fun. I saw the signs at the top of #42, I thought you were referring to "WTF" is that all about because it wasn't hard to get there via #42.
This thread should be re-titled as GSMTR 2013 Location Debate. 
