Coil over inquiries... toytek's specifically (for starters, but plz expand) (1 Viewer)

[DRANGED]

I'm starting to look into coil overs and landed at Toytek.

I hear the coil over kit with 5100s is a great functional entry-level setup for functional lift while maintaining good ride quality on road.

What are the differences between these offerings?

Front adjustable coil over kit with Bilstein 5100's
Front adjustable coil over kit with Bilstein 5100's

Toytec Ultimate Coilovers: These are the same coilovers in our Ultimate kit
Toytec Ultimate Coilovers

ToyTec BOSS Coilovers
ToyTec BOSS Coilovers


How does the kit's spring rate compare to stock and how does it change ride quality in the different height settings?
I assume the Boss is different as you can chose between two different springs (based on base vehicle weight, ergo expo built, v's less heavily laiden configuration), and a beefier shock to round out that kit.


I'm mostly curious about the differences b/t the 5100 kit and the "ultimate" kit...

 

[GXO]

I know a few people with boss in their gxes and they love them.

 

[joabmc]

I’ve known a few folks that have ran the Ultimate and Boss systems on the FJCs. The ultimate have the Toytec branded 2.0 shock. Everyone has good reviews for everyday driving but I’ve personally seen several failures on the trail. Or as the result of off-road use. Most upgraded to the 2.5s BOSS with better results. Good thing is that Toytec has great customer service and have always stood by the product. A friend had 2 separate failures on the 2.0 and they replaced both times no questions asked. They upgraded to the 2.5

 

[Bluetribal]

I would recommend just waiting a bit longer to save up and pony up for the 2.5’s. You will not regret it and trust my it is not fun installing your suspension a second time!

It will ride like sport mode pretty much depending on your tires. I noticed this week my ride got a little harder with the new heavier duty Cooper Tires compared to the Yokohama’s I have been running for two years.

ToyTec BOSS 2.5 Series Adjustable Front coil over shocks

 

[BlackCat]

Absolutely go with a 2.5 shock as others have said.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into your list (or maybe you already dismissed this option), but there's the Bilstein 6112 kit #47-260153 ($643 on Amazon) for a 2003-2009 V8 4Runner that fits the GX470. It has the thicker shock 60mm piston (aka 2.5") and a 600 lb coil from the research that I've done.

Anyways, here are some key considerations and comments for the front coilovers:

1. Diameter of the shock at 2" or 2.5". The thicker the shock, the more fluid is in it which leads to increased dampening and less fade. Essentially, a better shock for washboard roads when exploring offroad.

2. Spring load. I believe that for a stock GX470, you are looking at a minimum 600 lb spring. If you are going to add weight in the front like a front bumper or a winch, then increase the spring load to either 650 lbs or 700 lbs.

3. Lift adjustability. Some coilovers have different adjustment levels to get a lift ranging from 1" to 3" or something like that.

4. Strength of the mounting rod. For off-road use, consider a thicker and stronger mounting rod on the shock. It’s what I call a beefier shock overall.

Again, I bought my GX470 already lifted, so I don't have any experience with anything else except my setup. Just to put into perspective my comments compared to the "real" experts on this board who have run multiple setups.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@DRANGED Are you looking for a level stance? Or want to keep the rear a little higher than the front?

If you are looking for a level stance, then you might be able to raise the front 1.5" and leave the rear stock. This way you don't need to change anything in the rear yet.

When you are ready to lift the entire truck, then re-adjust the front coilovers to a higher lift say 2.5" and upgrade the rear suspension to match.

 

[Burner01]

As both Blackcat and Bluetribal said, go with 2.5's. Do it right the first time and you'll be happy.
I found out the hard/expensive way that the 5100's are not adequate and possibly unsafe for the GX.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@Burner01 what spring load did you use on the front coilovers with your 5100s?

It’s not just the diameter of the shock that makes a difference, but also the springs.

So, when you recommend 2.5” diameter shocks, what spring load are you recommending?

Or do these thing come in kits and nobody can tell the spring load?

I’m just pointing out spring load also matters, so don’t just focus on the shock diameter.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Ah never mind, I saw in your other post that you used stock oem front springs when u put the new 5100s in the front.

Im not a proponent of 5100s for the gx470, but really was just trying to understand why the 5100s were so bad for you in the front.

did you use new stock front springs or re-used the old oem springs when you put the 5100s in the front? If new stock Springs, do you remember the spring load?

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Found some data on spring rates, but it's missing the OEM GX470 information. It would be great to have it for comparison purposes...

Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum - View Single Post - Coil Rates: OEM 4runner, OEM FJ, Moog, & Others

 

[Bluetribal]

I am sure I will get people upset who will defend the Bilstein's but personally I feel that these are good for a street lifts. The guys who want the lifted truck but will never see dirt. And if that was my thing I would gladly buy Bilsteins.

I believe the rods are generally thicker on 2.5 shocks compared to 2.0's as well. So not just additional fluid, additional strength.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@Bluetribal I know you have strong negative feelings about the bilsteins, but are your comments specifically on the 2” 5100s or are you also throwing in the 2.5” 6112s which also have the beefier shaft? You seem to throw the entire brand under the bus.

Anyways, you do make a good point to also consider the stronger and beefier shafts on shocks for off-road purposes. I just don’t know how many brands make beefier shafts on both the 2.5” and 2” shocks.

I just find it interesting that the recommendations here on these few threads have narrowed on the 2.5” shocks as the best solution for all intents and purposes, when the gx470 came with 2” shocks and probably 580 lb springs.

Moreover, the op @DRANGED nevered asked about off-road. He wanted on-road good ride quality compared stock oem and wanted specific information on the coil overs he was looking at.

I guess when the advice is free, you get a lot more than you paid for. Lol

I think some really good points were brought up in terms of what to look in front shocks and springs.

 

[DRANGED]

@DRANGED Are you looking for a level stance? Or want to keep the rear a little higher than the front?

If you are looking for a level stance, then you might be able to raise the front 1.5" and leave the rear stock. This way you don't need to change anything in the rear yet.

When you are ready to lift the entire truck, then re-adjust the front coilovers to a higher lift say 2.5" and upgrade the rear suspension to match.

At this step in the game I'm just tertiary gathering info to set a direction for later. Right now stock is fine but a scosh more front clearance without sacrificing ride quality and KDSS stock articulation is the goal. level stance by 1.5" front height gain, and intact airbags can accommodate for weight. My airbags are good and while 10 years old, the springs seem fine, they probably sag a scosh just by their age but I know now any different as this '07 is my only experience/exposure.

The 5100 seemed the standard intro ride and lift option for the 120 platform (runners typically) but a growing consensus suggests the GX 120 platform is too heavy (@ 300# heavier than the runner cousin), especially when loaded for a trip. Clearly an aftermarket spring/preloadable tension (e.g. coil over) is preferred to stock/old springs and 5100 shock upgrade. I assume the 5100 is longer and affords more travel, thus pairing with a setable spring... but now I'm reading the 2.5" shock (as you posted the Amazon 6112 setup) should be considered a base-level upgrade for a GX vs the 5100 @ 2" (which I guess is basically an improved stock upgrade). I could stand to nerd out a bit more on what's in the stock rig and compare those specs to different offerings.

I'm on the fence with the minimal co$t of a spacer and it's overcomeable negatives to gain clearance AND stepping the bump stop to maintain shock travel and preserve the shocks by keeping the function of a bump stop. I get the 'save your money and get a real set-up' argument completely, and honestly right now and for a pocket-disposable $50 (1.5" lift) or ironically $37 (for a 2" lift spacer) a spacer seems a reasonable way to go especially since my stock bits are fine. So I'm gathering info for when the airbags DO fail, and when I'm more freed to mod this truck. Right now it's the road trip, family hauler, and weekend play, car camping rig.... but I live in Moab so weekend play and car camping can be Bobby's hole, the Maze and Beef Basin, so it can be a little different level of capability need for a basic stock rig.

 

[DRANGED]

I second this. I think the bilstein 5100 is the runner stock lift/levelling kit on the sport. I think the TRD pro might get a better upgrade, maybe to the 6112? (I have a buddy who's nerding out on the runners right now...)

Copy that @HomersCanyonero. I suppose I could've been a bit more specific on intent and direction for and from my inquiery (but I also wanted it a bit objective from differeing perspectives here-street, dirt, snow, trails, expo, etc). I live in Moab and as a stock rig the GX is VERY capable (KDSS too). I'm not on board with overlanding (although that is unclearly defined in the States) this car or making is a kane creek or pritchet crawler. I'm content with some higher moderate trails, and want confidence for a multi-day in the maze and similar remote but challenging points in these parts. Right now it's stock save 70 series BFGs and no running boards. It's opened my eyes (coming from my lifted subaru with dual range FT AWD, that pulled off lockhart), especially with a bit of coaching from the NPS off-road driving instructor. However, this rig could use a little leveling (ergo front lift to get that skid plate away from the ground a little bit).

For me now (kids are 6&8) moderate trails and technicality (Fins, sevenmile, lockhart, etc) are fine. I'd like to check out poison spider and top of the world but for now my next mods will be selectively choosing skids, maybe sliders (partly as steps) after that. Here, I'm gathering info for when the airbags fail which direction I'll go for a little clearance with functionally purposed articulation, without sacrificing or compromising KDSS/ I don't intend to do a 3" or greater lift. Maybe 2" all told when I go springs in the rear, but that's down the road. Right now road comfort (multi-week family camping road trips) maintained by the ride quality dial while having off road capability (it is a prado after all, a quiet powerful one

) via KDSS, good tires and just its base awesomeness is fine. And I know I need to do a bit of searching for extant threads that may already address my current and unknown questions.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

OMG, you live in Moab? You will be hitting the trails in no time. So, you should just assume that you are going to need good front shocks and springs.

Right now you just want to spend up to $50 to get spacers to lift the front about 1". Do that for now and see how it works.

When you are ready to replace the fronts, I think you better go with beefier 2.5" front shocks and at least 600 lb coils. This is just because you live in Moab and will be hitting more trails. I would not recommend that you re-use your old worn out OEM front springs. Just get new ones to go with the new shocks. Set them in a low position, so you only get like 1.5" of lift in the front and it will balance with your stock rear OEM airbags.

Unfortunately, I don't have experience with any of the other coilovers other than the ones I'm running, so I cannot tell you which one will give you a ride close to stock with a little lift. Needless to say, the option to upgrade to new 2.5" shocks with a minimum new 600 lb spring will run you between $650 to $1500 depending if you go with the entry-level Bilstein/OME, mid-level ICONs, or the premium-level KINGs.

By the way, you will lose the "electronic control" on ALL 4 shocks when you replace your front OEM electronic shocks with non-electronic shocks. It's an all or nothing deal with the electronic shocks. The good thing is that this has no bearing on your rear air bags.

Just keep the air bags in the rear for now. I'm probably one of the very few on this board that likes the rear air bags. I've found them useful to level the truck in a campground with an incline, so I can sleep inside more level. I've raised the airbags to hi on the way back up a hill to clear a rock that hit my gas tank skid plate on the way down the same hill.

If you the airbag trick, then you could raise the rear about 1" and the front 2" to give it more of a level stance. I'm lifted 2.5" in the front and 2" in the back with the airbag trick, so I don't have a level stance. It's more of the stock stance at 2" higher.

 

[joabmc]

@HomersCanyonero Thought you might like this. Just came across the complete TTUE kit for sale by Toyota for $573. Pretty reasonable actually. Although there were some front coil failures reported from the TTUE folks. It’s a beefy kit and sits about an 1” higher than normal stock w/ the 6112s and 5160s

PTR1335140 - Suspension Kit. TRD, PSuspension, Chassis - Genuine Toyota Accessory

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@joabmc Thanks for the link, but I couldn't tell the specs on was included for $573. I already have Bilstein shocks (2.5") 24-227261 and Bilstein coils E4-FD1-Y005829 (600 lbs) up front. I bought my GX470 with that setup already installed. Maybe you meant to tell @DRANGED who started this thread.

I also have the spring conversion kit from MT, Toyota isolators, OME rear springs 2895e, and OME 60004 shocks in the garage. However, I've been thinking about possibly getting progressive springs for the back. I'm just not ready to actually do the spring conversion since I'm an air bag aficionado.

 

[joabmc]

@HomersCanyonero apologies, more of a general statement on my part. You mentioned the partial 6112 kit in an earlier post and I was just adding to that if someone or @DRANGED wanted to go with the complete setup.
The kit is a complete front and rear for a good price.

I’m in the process of doing a complete swap from my FJC to the GX. 885s up front w/ swaybar relocate and Discos, MT progressive in rear with OME 60071L for extended travel. Bought the GX for a bargain because of airbag failures so figured why not.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

You get all that for $573? That's a steal! Are you sure? The Bilstein 6112 kit with just the front shocks and front springs is $643 on Amazon.

What's the model and specs on the rear shocks? All you need is rear springs and the conversion kit to get that done and those two other things are like $400 if you get basic stuff.

Damn! that's a great price. YOu can get a whole suspension upgrade and coil conversion for under $1000! Yikes.