Again: Check your Knuckle-Nuts ;-)

[Saito]

IMO the other three had to be lose for that gap to be there.

Oh, they definitely were. Funny that the nut was still “hugged” and hadn’t turned but the stud backed off. One stud sheared(the missing one) partly off. I’m just glad I check them often and caught it before it was a big deal.

 

[sjpitts]

Are the "nut huggers" supposed to go over the regular washers, or in place of the washers?

 

[Broski]

Oh, they definitely were. Funny that the nut was still “hugged” and hadn’t turned but the stud backed off. One stud sheared(the missing one) partly off. I’m just glad I check them often and caught it before it was a big deal.

Rick nailed it @landtank post #157

 

[Inukshuk]

Are the "nut huggers" supposed to go over the regular washers, or in place of the washers?

In place of.

 

[smorkington]

In place of.

And thus you dont achieve the desired torque. Also think twice about installing products made by someone who exit scammed this community out of 100000$

 

[cruiseroutfit]

And thus you dont achieve the desired torque. Also think twice about installing products made by someone who exit scammed this community out of 100000$

Interestingly, long before these were offered as an aftermarket, there were OE Toyota solutions on 20 Series Land Cruiser axles. I’ll share some pics of the samples we have at the Land Cruiser Heritage Museum.

There is this offering that just slips down over the nuts themselves and keeps them from rotating, I’ll post some pics when I find em

 

[sjpitts]

And thus you dont achieve the desired torque. Also think twice about installing products made by someone who exit scammed this community out of 100000$

Versions of these products are now made by both @DeltaVS and @TRAIL TAILOR -- so you can't just dismiss the product because of Wit's End's inglorious end.

So please clarify what you mean by "don't achieve the desired torque"

Personally, I am leaning towards using both nut huggers and @landtank 's custom studs -- why use a belt or suspender when you can use both?

 

[landtank]

I’m not aware of anyone having a problem with my studs backing out when installing them as designed. I don’t recommend altering how my product is installed.

Adding another item to the stack is akin to stacking washers. It’s widely considered something you don’t want to do as it promotes movement in the stack which tends to lead to a loosening of the fasteners.

And it was movement in the original stack that lead to the loosening of the studs and them falling out.

 

[Broski]

And thus you dont achieve the desired torque. Also think twice about installing products made by someone who exit scammed this community out of 100000$

^^^^^^ This !!!

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Im running original stud with fatory hardware at ~260K. I do reset the studs durring a knuckel rebuild. I check torque with the a nut wrench with ever oil change. Never an issue

 

[Broski]

Im running original stud with fatory hardware at ~260K. I do reset the studs durring a knuckel rebuild. I check torque with the a nut wrench with ever oil change. Never an issue

View attachment 4071544View attachment 4071545

Must be that Arizona HEAT

Agreed biggest thing is regular torque checks

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Sized to provide the correct torque with my current arm strength in the morning after coffee, 18” total length.

 

[Broski]

Sized to provide the correct torque with my current arm strength in the morning after coffee, 18” total length.

View attachment 4071931

Great minds think alike

 

[bhsdriller]

Here's a good option as well I keep in the tool kit for us that can't make one

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KRHJ3LP?tag=ihco-20

 

[sjpitts]

Adding another item to the stack is akin to stacking washers. It’s widely considered something you don’t want to do as it promotes movement in the stack which tends to lead to a loosening of the fasteners.

So again, I was under the impression that the nut huggers took the place of the original washers-- not that they were stacked with the original washers. Which is why I asked when I saw @Saito 's picture above. It looked like he stacked them.

And I just checked DeltaVS's website, and in the instructions they definitely say that is the case-- Here are their instructions from their website:

Delta Vehicle Systems - 80 Series Nut Huggers - https://www.deltavs.com/all-products/80-series-nut-huggers

1. Completely clean and de-grease the mounting surface of the steering arm and knuckle.
2. Use a sanding block or file to ensure both the knuckle and steering arm surfaces are flat and smooth.
3. Ensure the knuckle studs are tight in the knuckle itself; the shoulder will prevent the stud from going too far.
4. Place the steering arm in position with the cone washers.
5. Pre-bend each ear about 30 degrees to facilitate locking tabs after installation.
6. Install the Nut Hugger plates in place of the OEM washers (do not use OEM washers).
7. Hand tighten the nut with the flat edge toward the knuckle.
8. Torque the nuts to 71 ft-lb.
9. Do not bend the tabs yet.
10. Drive 500 miles, then re-check the torque and verify it remains at 71 ft-lb.
11. Use a screwdriver to bend the tabs up, then use a brass drift and hammer to secure all tabs into the knuckle nut, locking it in place.

 

[sjpitts]

The thread pitch on the knuckle is 1.5 while on the nut side it’s 1.25.

So if the stud loosened just the smallest bit it would then loosen totally as the stud will back out of the knuckle at a faster rate than it would screw into the captured nut.

There is a possibility of the stud falling out even though the nut was captured.

This is a very good explanation of the problem.

 

[Broski]

This is a very good explanation of the problem.

Post #159 IMO is proof of this and that they did not do the job. Poster even stated the other three were loose.

 

[sjpitts]

Sized to provide the correct torque with my current arm strength in the morning after coffee, 18” total length.

View attachment 4071931

Quality wrench, even better quality labeling.

I really need to start labeling stuff like this if I am going to fight off the early stages of late stage dementia.

Jared

 

[Saito]

So again, I was under the impression that the nut huggers took the place of the original washers-- not that they were stacked with the original washers. Which is why I asked when I saw @Saito 's picture above. It looked like he stacked them.

And I just checked DeltaVS's website, and in the instructions they definitely say that is the case-- Here are their instructions from their website:

Delta Vehicle Systems - 80 Series Nut Huggers - https://www.deltavs.com/all-products/80-series-nut-huggers

Nope. Not stacked. Just the nut hugger and nuts. Might try some nord-lock washers on the inside nuts. ARP hardware and higher torque might happen too. All good in the meantime.

 

[smorkington]

Versions of these products are now made by both @DeltaVS and @TRAIL TAILOR -- so you can't just dismiss the product because of Wit's End's inglorious end.

So please clarify what you mean by "don't achieve the desired torque"

Personally, I am leaning towards using both nut huggers and @landtank 's custom studs -- why use a belt or suspender when you can use both?

Here is an ai generated explanation although any engineer would concur

Torque specs only work if the washer/nut can rotate freely, because a torque wrench measures rotational resistance, not actual clamp load; if the washer binds due to rust, paint, galling, or wrong hardware, much of the torque is wasted on friction and the joint ends up under-clamped even though the wrench clicks. Free-spinning washers ensure torque translates into proper preload, which is why cleaning surfaces and using the correct washer matters more than gimmicky locking features. Exceptions exist (serrated or lock washers), but their torque specs already assume added friction—mixing parts breaks the math.

TLDR: Just get em tight and check occasionally or use loc tite if you are paranoid

(also you can preform a knuckle job without removing the steering arms)