60 Series RePower

[thewarwagon]

Looking to eventually Re power my 60. Seems the most common are LS V8s or Cummins R2.8s. I’m wondering why I don’t hear of using more modern six cylinder’s like the Toyota 3400. The Jap made version in early 2000’s tacomas was an excellent motor. US version not so much. Another choice might be a 5 liter Ford. I’m guessing there are reasons for not using these. Somebody care to expand?

 

[3_puppies]

WAG would be lack of adaptors for trans or transfer
also how does the curb weight compare between rigs,

 

[thewarwagon]

WAG would be lack of adaptors for trans or transfer
also how does the curb weight compare between rigs,

R2.8 has adaptors available for direct bolt up to H55 five speed transmission. A lot of LS swaps go with a GM transmission but that requires driveline changes etc. Simple is also a consideration for me.

WAG would be lack of adaptors for trans or transfer
also how does the curb weight compare between rigs,

comparable. I like the 500ish pound weight of the R2.8.

 

[toy_tek]

Looking to eventually Re power my 60. Seems the most common are LS V8s or Cummins R2.8s. I’m wondering why I don’t hear of using more modern six cylinder’s like the Toyota 3400. The Jap made version in early 2000’s tacomas was an excellent motor. US version not so much. Another choice might be a 5 liter Ford. I’m guessing there are reasons for not using these. Somebody care to expand?

I had a 97 4Runner with the 3.4. Great engine, bought it with 50k, sold it at 280k and never a hiccup. Wouldn't want it in a 60 though, it definitely struggled with the 4R when loaded.

 

[GRpufnstuf]

I bought my truck already swapped to a Ford 302/5.0 1991 Mustang engine. Drives great but i don’t see a lot of swap parts for this in the age of the LS. I would be looking at the GM LL8/4200 straight 6 (2006-2009 versions) if i was prepping for a swap today.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

R2.8 has adaptors available for direct bolt up to H55 five speed transmission. A lot of LS swaps go with a GM transmission but that requires driveline changes etc. Simple is also a consideration for me.

comparable. I like the 500ish pound weight of the R2.8.

The 2.8 isn't enough for all the time and money no replacement for displacement

 

[3_puppies]

R2.8 has adaptors available for direct bolt up to H55 five speed transmission. A lot of LS swaps go with a GM transmission but that requires driveline changes etc. Simple is also a consideration for me.

comparable. I like the 500ish pound weight of the R2.8.

you were asking about different engine setups versus more commonly used swaps, generally adaptors are not available for them

curb weight is the vehicle weight not the engine weight, an engine that may perform well in a rig when placed in a rig that weighs 1,000lbs more will not perform the same

 

[thewarwagon]

you were asking about different engine setups versus more commonly used swaps, generally adaptors are not available for them

curb weight is the vehicle weight not the engine weight, an engine that may perform well in a rig when placed in a rig that weighs 1,000lbs more will not perform the same

Sorry misread the question. I had engine weight on my mind after reading 6.4 diesel swap threads.

 

[dbbowen]

If you HAVE to go diesel....12v 6bt from a 2007 ish ram 2500 would be a relatively easy swap. Youd need to upgrade the Holset HX35 and a few things like adjustable fuel plate, injectors, and add a good intercooler. All of that will give you like over 300 hp to the wheels and like over 400-500 ft lbs of torque. The problem is that there isnt really anywhere to put FMIC on a 60 large enough to go with the power that a higher powered diesel requires. the R2.8 is barely enough to power a firstgen 4runner, and you could buy 3 6bts for one R2.8. You are doing all of this work for re power... you want it to actually have power right? The nice thing about the ram cummins is that it will come with the NV4500 with the granny gear first gear and thats great for wheeling. Useless on the street. Expect about 25ish mpg city and 28 on the highway... but diesel costs more to fill up so its all kind of a wash. The main good thing about the 12v is you can just dump your old motor oil and stuff into the gas tank and it will run it


The reason toyota diesels arent done more here in the states is that parts and support is pretty limited as those motors were never sold here. Sure you can buy parts from places like cruiser outfitters or valley hybrids, and japan or australia... but if you are ever out on the road and have problems you wont be able to go to the parts store and buy parts to fix your s***. Every autozone and diesel supply shop will have parts for the 12v as well as LS motors.


Lots of people really like the idea of a diesel, until they actually drive one. For the longest time i wanted a diesel in my 60, but cant say i want it anymore.


5vz-FE would be okay in the 60 but youd really want a re gear and its still not going to give you that feeling of "wow i just doubled my power output"

If you want to keep it toyota, you could go with the UZ line of V8s but id stay away from anything that isnt a first generation 1uz as its got significantly larger rods and is much stronger internally than all of the others. They take boost really well. Id stay far away from the 2uz as its the weakest of all the UZ motors. The UZ motor will be more expensive overall to swap over and will take up more room in your engine bay versus an LS. All upgrades will cost more too. Want to upgrade the cam to a kelford? gotta buy 4 instead of 1



Then theres the LS Swap. Its not the most original swap, but its the easiest to DIY by a large margin, there are parts literally at every parts store in the country for these, theres about a million types of variations of accessory drives and intakes you can go with for packaging. The aftermarket on them is just absurd. You can throw a cam, intake, valvesprings, pushrods, and some heads at it and make really good power NA or they take boost well also. The downside is youll only get about 12-13 mpg city and 14-15 mpg highway tops. Claims of 18-20 mpg on a LS is pure bull****. MPG aside, its also going to probably be the most reliable engine swap you can do. With the LS youll also get full obd2 monitoring of the vitals of your motor. Youll get that with the newer toyota motors but the support is better with the LS

A buddy of mine has a 12v in his 80 series and it makes just an absurd amount of torque but after driving it, i dont think i would like to go the diesel route in my 60. I like the more hp focused power delivery on the road of the LS. You can feel that the cummins has way more torque but it doesnt start making noticable horsepower until the turbo spools up. My 60 just goes and it goes fast. On the trail it has plenty of torque down low and ive not noticed it lacking at all, even with 2 wheels off the ground.


I think it all comes down to user serviceability.... are you okay with waiting a few weeks anytime your truck needs parts, or do you want to be able to just run down to the store real quick. I just drove my 60 from Tennessee to Oregon, with the cruise control set to 95 mph most of the way. Stopped in Moab to wheel for two days. Then completed the trip to Oregon. The only issue i had the entire time was my front brake line rubbing on my front driveshaft because it was too long. No chance in hell i would have made that trip without a domestic, super common motor. That would just be ill advised.

 

[gbogh]

Looking to eventually Re power my 60. Seems the most common are LS V8s or Cummins R2.8s. I’m wondering why I don’t hear of using more modern six cylinder’s like the Toyota 3400. The Jap made version in early 2000’s tacomas was an excellent motor. US version not so much. Another choice might be a 5 liter Ford. I’m guessing there are reasons for not using these. Somebody care to expand?

My two cents-

The LS is probably the most common swap option. It has the most support & is the most prevalent engine making it the easiest to install and operate/maintain.

The 5VZ is smaller and all it's power comes higher in the powerband. You're going to be spinning that engine/trans higher to see a marginal performance increase. There are superchargers available though. The native R series manual transmissions are a bit lighter-weight than the H series found in the 60. Getting to be an older engine at this point.

The 1GR powers a similar curb weight-vehicle and it's power curve works for the application. It hasn't been swapped into a ton of stuff, so you'll be spending more $ to work out the bugs. Super strong engine though. They're in a ton of 4runners/tacomas (still the engine for the 4runner), so supply is good. Manual transmissions are are out there, but not common. These also have superchargers available

The UZ family is a decent option. I don't know where @dbbowen gets it that they're unreliable. If you're running more than a few pounds of boost (in anything other than the 89-94 1UZ), you'll want to do something with the bottom-end, but they're pretty stout engines. The power/displacement is there. If you want to run a manual, you'll need to cough up for adapters/transmission. Again, superchargers available.

1HZ/1HD-T are cool engines, the support is there... overseas. Gonna heavily lean on a diesel Land Cruiser specialist in the US though.

Cummins B series engines are torquey and relatively fuel economical, but heavy and tall. Expect to go SOA/heavy suspension. The 4 cylinder variants are about the same weight as the 2f. Packaging the engine with turbos & intercooler will be more than an NA V8.

 

[dbbowen]

My two cents-

The LS is probably the most common swap option. It has the most support & is the most prevalent engine making it the easiest to install and operate/maintain.

The 5VZ is smaller and all it's power comes higher in the powerband. You're going to be spinning that engine/trans higher to see a marginal performance increase. There are superchargers available though. The native R series manual transmissions are a bit lighter-weight than the H series found in the 60. Getting to be an older engine at this point.

The 1GR powers a similar curb weight-vehicle and it's power curve works for the application. It hasn't been swapped into a ton of stuff, so you'll be spending more $ to work out the bugs. Super strong engine though. They're in a ton of 4runners/tacomas (still the engine for the 4runner), so supply is good. Manual transmissions are are out there, but not common. These also have superchargers available

The UZ family is a decent option. I don't know where @dbbowen gets it that they're unreliable. If you're running more than a few pounds of boost (in anything other than the 89-94 1UZ), you'll want to do something with the bottom-end, but they're pretty stout engines. The power/displacement is there. If you want to run a manual, you'll need to cough up for adapters/transmission. Again, superchargers available.

1HZ/1HD-T are cool engines, the support is there... overseas. Gonna heavily lean on a diesel Land Cruiser specialist in the US though.

Cummins B series engines are torquey and relatively fuel economical, but heavy and tall. Expect to go SOA/heavy suspension. The 4 cylinder variants are about the same weight as the 2f. Packaging the engine with turbos & intercooler will be more than an NA V8.

I didn’t mean to imply they are unreliable. I just meant the 2uz commonly found in the 100 series just isn’t worth it power per dollar. Even the trd supercharger for it is prohibitively expensive. They are definitely reliable in completely stock form though. Toyota discontinued the supercharger for a reason

The LS based motor has 10x the aftermarket support, has much higher tuning potential, and takes power adders much easier. It’s also much simpler (and cheaper) to operate. Especially if you go with a gen3 motor. 5.3 makes more power off the bat, and then can make even more with easy stuff like a cam and intake.

The best thing the LS has going for it is the ecm/pcm is completely open and you can run and completely tune the stock computer. You can tell it how to operate the fans, you can tell it what pressure to kick off the Ac compressor, and you can adjust the entire fuel map, without any standalone computer. Well I can’t. My tuner can though

 

[thewarwagon]

Thanks guys! That is a wealth of info. I drive a 21 Ram 2500 with a 6.7 Cummins and like it better than any truck I’ve ever owned. Just drove it from TN to New Mexico and back. So Cummins diesel was extremely interesting to me. Especially the non def version. I like LS for parts availability and support. I like R2.8 for the crate motor install aspects, including fuel petal and ecm included in the crate, along with adapter plate for the h55 tranny is available. Big concern I have is I want to do the install myself but I want to keep it simple. I am very much an amateur. I am cautious about how much fab work is required. I have concerns that if my engine choice adds too much weight I will have to replace my new front springs or add too much torque and my H55 or stock rear axle won’t stand up to the torque. I’m just trying to think of downstream consequences before I start down that path.

 

[gbogh]

I didn’t mean to imply they are unreliable. I just meant the 2uz commonly found in the 100 series just isn’t worth it power per dollar. Even the trd supercharger for it is prohibitively expensive. They are definitely reliable in completely stock form though. Toyota discontinued the supercharger for a reason

The LS based motor has 10x the aftermarket support, has much higher tuning potential, and takes power adders much easier. It’s also much simpler (and cheaper) to operate. Especially if you go with a gen3 motor. 5.3 makes more power off the bat, and then can make even more with easy stuff like a cam and intake.

The best thing the LS has going for it is the ecm/pcm is completely open and you can run and completely tune the stock computer. You can tell it how to operate the fans, you can tell it what pressure to kick off the Ac compressor, and you can adjust the entire fuel map, without any standalone computer. Well I can’t. My tuner can though

I can agree with all that

 

[Snicklephritz87]

R2.8 has adaptors available for direct bolt up to H55 five speed transmission. A lot of LS swaps go with a GM transmission but that requires driveline changes etc. Simple is also a consideration for me.

comparable. I like the 500ish pound weight of the R2.8.

The beauty of the LS is parts are on the shelf pretty much anywhere América. The same cannot be said about the R2.8. The LS gets 20MPG the R2.8 gets 27-30MPG. Fuel cost negates fuel economy in my opinion. Even though its boring and common place. i feel its the clear winner.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Thanks guys! That is a wealth of info. I drive a 21 Ram 2500 with a 6.7 Cummins and like it better than any truck I’ve ever owned. Just drove it from TN to New Mexico and back. So Cummins diesel was extremely interesting to me. Especially the non def version. I like LS for parts availability and support. I like R2.8 for the crate motor install aspects, including fuel petal and ecm included in the crate, along with adapter plate for the h55 tranny is available. Big concern I have is I want to do the install myself but I want to keep it simple. I am very much an amateur. I am cautious about how much fab work is required. I have concerns that if my engine choice adds too much weight I will have to replace my new front springs or add too much torque and my H55 or stock rear axle won’t stand up to the torque. I’m just trying to think of downstream consequences before I start down that path.

Everything you are concerned about has all been answered on this forum. Multiple swap builds and @dbbowen cookie cutter thread should answer any questions you have you just need to read the whole thread. Ls isn't going to hurt an h55 or axles. The ls engine has everything and more that the 2.8 has and right now gas is way less.
Tommy

 

[thewarwagon]

Ok sounds like LS is the most popular choice. Which LS set up do you like best? Lots of different configs. Are their ones to avoid or ones the adapters ets are not available for?

 

[White Stripe]

I would stick to the 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, or 6.2 gen 3 LS motor if your doing things yourself for first time. If you want more of a challenge a gen 4 with vvti will give some more torque at lower rpms but more difficult to wire. Usually truck LS motors with the ugly truck intake manifold are most affordable. Stay away from the 4.8.

 

[BurntToast]

Ok sounds like LS is the most popular choice. Which LS set up do you like best? Lots of different configs. Are their ones to avoid or ones the adapters ets are not available for?

Read this if you haven’t already. Cheapest I would go is a gen3 5.3 w/ 4l60e. I’m doing a gen4
6.0 w/6l80e right now in my tiny garage

How to LS Swap a FJ60 or FJ62. Quick and dirty guide for regular folks wanting to do an engine swap in their driveway.

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[dbbowen]

if you dont have emissions in your state, imo the best bang for your buck is an LQ4 with a LS6 intake and accessories and a mild cam. For trans the easiest auto will be a 4l60. If you want stronger, go 4l75e. It might be tempting to use a 4l80 but it weighs almost twice as much and is physically much larger and has issues with trans pan clearance. For manual trans you have the option of a GM NV4500, H55f, and TR4050. TR4050 being the most expensive, but best option.


This is a LQ4 with ls6 intake, stage 2 texas speed cam, valve springs, timing chain, and pushrods. Trans is a GMNV4500 that bolts directly to the motor, and Advance adapters adapter with stock transfer case

If you you get a used LQ4 with the NV4500 already attached to it, it probably came out of a fleet vehicle so expect to change the clutch/slave/pilot bearing etc immediately btw

 

[Alleuro]

Looking to eventually Re power my 60. Seems the most common are LS V8s or Cummins R2.8s. I’m wondering why I don’t hear of using more modern six cylinder’s like the Toyota 3400. The Jap made version in early 2000’s tacomas was an excellent motor. US version not so much. Another choice might be a 5 liter Ford. I’m guessing there are reasons for not using these. Somebody care to expand?

I have an Isuzu 4 cylinder turbo diesel adapted to the H55 trans. Plenty of power and I get about 23 MPG with this set up on 35" BFG tires