2006 LX470 fires but wont turn over- then it does turn and start? (wtf)

[NolaNomad]

4 hour road trip today, all highway. Stopped at post office, turned the key and its just all stater noise. Starter sounded pretty steady no screeching. Wont turn over. I tried several times, smelled some gas fumes. Let it rest, then it fired up. Drove home, tried a backup key fob. same thing: wont start then, did fire up. Smell a bit of gas fumes. Checked fuses- look ok no crack. EFI 25 fuse looks ok. EFI relay plug has a chipped plastic housing-been that way for awhile now-will replace soon.
Could this be a fuel issue like EFIor fuel filter since i smell a bit of gas fumes or is that just because the starter was working hard?
Don't think its the fuses-don't think it's key fob-starter sounded ok. Day before (yesterday) I had a safety check for a pre-roadtrip inspection-was given the green light(?)

Anyone have a no start-then weak sounding start ? What can it be?

 

[SWCruiser]

swap the EFI fuse with a new one. Some people have even swapped with a 30amp fuse. Sounds like similar issue i had and it was the fuse. I had replaced pump and filter and finally the fuse. I wasnt that upset as the truck has 315K so i figured these parts needed replacing anyway.

 

[GTV]

Stopped at post office, turned the key and it’s just all stater noise. Starter sounded pretty steady no screeching. Wont turn over.

“Turning over” means the starter is working and is turning over the engine as it should. An engine that isn’t turning over is having a starter issue (or something much more serious). An engine can turn over but not run, is that what your issue is?

 

[NolaNomad]

“Turning over” means the starter is working and is turning over the engine as it should. An engine that isn’t turning over is having a starter issue (or something much more serious). An engine can turn over but not run, is that what your issue is?

Ah ok- the starter does operate but the motor won't start- after letting it sit for 20 mins it did fire up(?)

 

[Trapper50cal]

When this dynamic happened to me, it was the fuel pump beginning its death rattles. Every once in a while, intermittent crank no start then would fire up later. It was only after replacing the entire "Engine Room Junction Block Assembly" aka Main Fuse/Relay Box under hood and that not solving it, that I moved on to fuel pump. If I had it to do over again I'd start with fuel pump as it's considerably less expensive. But definitely try the EFI sitch first.

 

[NolaNomad]

When this dynamic happened to me, it was the fuel pump beginning its death rattles. Every once in a while, intermittent crank no start then would fire up later. It was only after replacing the entire "Engine Room Junction Block Assembly" aka Main Fuse/Relay Box under hood and that not solving it, that I moved on to fuel pump. If I had it to do over again I'd start with fuel pump as it's considerably less expensive. But definitely try the EFI sitch first.

I've been looking at replacing the fuel pump- 260k miles so I figure it may be time- Whats the EFI stich?

 

[Trapper50cal]

I've been looking at replacing the fuel pump- 260k miles so I figure it may be time- Whats the EFI stich?

Sitch = Situation. The EFI fuse (Relay?) in the fuse box.

 

[NolaNomad]

Sitch = Situation. The EFI fuse (Relay?) in the fuse box.

Ah ok- I'm on the way to go find one

 

[hoser]

This is an issue most common with 06-07 years. Search for "Vapor Lock" even though it may or may not be vapor lock but that is the key word. The scenario is exactly like yours, they are driving for some time in the heat/high altitude and they turn off the engine. Then it won't start.... but wait 20 minutes and then it starts. I don't know the exact problem nor solution because I don't have a 06-07. Some suggest it is the EFI fuse issue but it's not.

Thread 'Hard starting in extreme heat conditions'

Jun 11, 2017

I have been having an issue with my 2006 100 now that the heat of summer is here in Arizona. After driving at slow speeds off-road on hot days I am getting fuel coming out of the fuel fill area causing fumes. If I turn off the engine it will crank strong, but won't start until it has cooled off for about twenty minutes. It appears for be a vapor lock type situation or fuel is boiling within the fuel lines or filter in the engine compartment due to heat. I know this is not a new issue as I have read several posts regarding a similar issue. Most of these seem to be related to fuses or other...

• KUpchu9702
• crank no start heat start issues.
• Replies: 49
• Forum: 100-Series Cruisers

K

Thread 'fuel issues 2006 LX470'

Sep 10, 2012

I have a 2006 LX470 that I purchased a little over 3 months ago. When hot out and driving quite a bit it would be hard starting, just like a vapor lock, until it cooled down then starts fine.

Also I get a fuel vapor/alcohol odor when it is hot out as well, and this odor comes from underneath the vehicle near the charcoal canister or filler tube.

Problem got to the point where the car would stall in traffic. I replaced the fuel pump as fuel pressure when hot was 32psi, and 38 when cool. New pump measured at 40psi according to my mechanic. Still get the occasional hot start issue when...

• kklaus121
• Replies: 6
• Forum: 100-Series Cruisers

 

[NolaNomad]

This is an issue most common with 06-07 years. Search for "Vapor Lock" even though it may or may not be vapor lock but that is the key word. The scenario is exactly like yours, they are driving for some time in the heat/high altitude and they turn off the engine. Then it won't start.... but wait 20 minutes and then it starts. I don't know the exact problem nor solution because I don't have a 06-07. Some suggest it is the EFI fuse issue but it's not.

Thread 'Hard starting in extreme heat conditions'

Jun 11, 2017

I have been having an issue with my 2006 100 now that the heat of summer is here in Arizona. After driving at slow speeds off-road on hot days I am getting fuel coming out of the fuel fill area causing fumes. If I turn off the engine it will crank strong, but won't start until it has cooled off for about twenty minutes. It appears for be a vapor lock type situation or fuel is boiling within the fuel lines or filter in the engine compartment due to heat. I know this is not a new issue as I have read several posts regarding a similar issue. Most of these seem to be related to fuses or other...

• KUpchu9702
• crank no start heat start issues.
• Replies: 49
• Forum: 100-Series Cruisers

K

Thread 'fuel issues 2006 LX470'

Sep 10, 2012

I have a 2006 LX470 that I purchased a little over 3 months ago. When hot out and driving quite a bit it would be hard starting, just like a vapor lock, until it cooled down then starts fine.

Also I get a fuel vapor/alcohol odor when it is hot out as well, and this odor comes from underneath the vehicle near the charcoal canister or filler tube.

Problem got to the point where the car would stall in traffic. I replaced the fuel pump as fuel pressure when hot was 32psi, and 38 when cool. New pump measured at 40psi according to my mechanic. Still get the occasional hot start issue when...

• kklaus121
• Replies: 6
• Forum: 100-Series Cruisers

View attachment 4110901

Yup this sounds like what mine is doing- Fuel Pump?

 

[Mike NXP]

Yup this sounds like what mine is doing- Fuel Pump?

Hard to say, that's just the noise of an engine "turning over" trying to start but not starting....That tells you the starter is good, just like in your situation, but the engine is struggling to get one of the important 4 things needed to run. Fuel, air, spark, compression......... it could be a bunch of things but you need to start from scratch and start troubleshooting


- I may have missed this but most importantly, once the engine cools down, does it start and run normally? Full power, no issues? If yes, we can assume compression, air and spark are OK and can focus on fuel ....

- You mentioned fuel smell, its only March but how hot is it in your area, were you working the engine hard? If the problem happens again you can open fuel cap and listen for fumes/boiling or you can pull a line from evap canister and let it vent out from there.....
>> You need to monitor engine coolant temperatures to make sure you don't have overheat issues causing fuel problem


The EFI / Immobilizer problem that some people have can be learned about here but not sure if that is your problem
>EFI Relay Bypass Kit (Immobilizer Fix) for UZJ100/LX470 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/efi-relay-bypass-kit-immobilizer-fix-for-uzj100-lx470.952811/

 

[NolaNomad]

Hard to say, that's just the noise of an engine "turning over" trying to start but not starting....That tells you the starter is good, just like in your situation, but the engine is struggling to get one of the important 4 things needed to run. Fuel, air, spark, compression......... it could be a bunch of things but you need to start from scratch and start troubleshooting


- I may have missed this but most importantly, once the engine cools down, does it start and run normally? Full power, no issues? If yes, we can assume compression, air and spark are OK and can focus on fuel ....

- You mentioned fuel smell, its only March but how hot is it in your area, were you working the engine hard? If the problem happens again you can open fuel cap and listen for fumes/boiling or you can pull a line from evap canister and let it vent out from there.....
>> You need to monitor engine coolant temperatures to make sure you don't have overheat issues causing fuel problem


The EFI / Immobilizer problem that some people have can be learned about here but not sure if that is your problem
>EFI Relay Bypass Kit (Immobilizer Fix) for UZJ100/LX470 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/efi-relay-bypass-kit-immobilizer-fix-for-uzj100-lx470.952811/

Yes- i just spoke to Jackson about the bypass- he said it's not common on my 2006- it was pretty hot in my road trip I noticed the coolant temp creep up- it was a little hot-I started it up today after replacing some fuses, efi- fuel pump- started normally but then it let off this " whoosh" sounded like a gate on a turbo- pretty cool sound but not normal- makes me think Vapor lock or charcoal canister- I noticed the smell of gas during the stall was prominent- I did order the fuel pump just to have it if needed but now thinking something to do with vapor lock due to heat, 4 hour road trip in and possible bad canister ?? I'll check spark plugs but if it started normally today - would that rule out spark?

 

[2001LC]

Yes- i just spoke to Jackson about the bypass- he said it's not common on my 2006-

Correct, not common. 03-07 fuse boxes is a redesign of the 98-02.

it was pretty hot in my road trip I noticed the coolant temp creep up-

If you're noticing ECT "creep up", on dash gauge. Then engine is running hot! As our dash water gauge (ECT) take a lot to move. Note: We do see more movement on LX water gauge than LC.
There can be a number of issues resulting in higher ECT (running hot). Number one is clogged radiator fins. See Alert

it was a little hot-I started it up today after replacing some fuses, efi- fuel pump- started normally but then it let off this " whoosh" sounded like a gate on a turbo- pretty cool sound but not normal- makes me think Vapor lock or charcoal canister- I noticed the smell of gas during the stall was prominent-

A Charcoal Canister (CC) clogged can result in stalls. We'll smell fuel. Most notable near and back gas fill area. On these, I very often find mucky looking grim, in gas fill area. This is sure sign of a bad CC. The number one cause of CC premature failing (clog). Is over filling gas tank, which 03-07 OM warns not to.

As these CC get really

I did order the fuel pump just to have it if needed but now thinking something to do with vapor lock due to heat, 4 hour road trip in and possible bad canister ?? I'll check spark plugs but if it started normally today - would that rule out spark?

The number one sign of a failing fuel pump, in the 06-07. Is: After running in higher RPM as RPM drop back, engine stall (dies)! This is especially noticeable when OAT higher (summer). In Colorado, this condition is most often reported as "vapor lock", while ascending I-70, up to Eisenhower tunnel. We're running in high RPM during the ascent. Then, as we let off gas pedal to begin the descent. RPMs drop back. The multi speed fuel pump, slows to much as it powers down to low speed. We end up with fuel starvation (lean condition), engine stall. After a few minutes, at side of road after this stall. Engine start up, like nothing was wrong.


If fuel pump failing, we don't generally get a fuel smell. One exception, may be if combined with clogged charcoal canister.

Spark plug tend to walk out (loosen) that produce a tick, as they do. Has little effect on engine starting, unless blown out. This will damage heads when plugs blows out. Which will produce a CEL. with P0300 & P030* See Alert

If in Denver area. Stop by and I'll take a look (DM me).

 

[NolaNomad]

Actually I did notice some filth on the body coming from the gas lid panel.. I ordered a fuel pump but now thinking a canister issue. I'll order one. Whats the test for a bad canister? Wonder if this is a straightforward replacement, I think the can is near the spare tire area? I'm located near Aspen/Snowmass area. I didnt notice the RPM stall issue you mentioned. My failure to start was after a road trip to Fruita in 85 degree temps- I noticed the water gauge did tick up a notch-then stopped at post office and wouldn't start- I did smell gas fumes. If its the canister, whats the way to tell? I should go to a NAPA and try to pull any codes

 

[2001LC]

Actually I did notice some filth on the body coming from the gas lid panel

Gas fill area "filth", is your biggest clue, of clogged CC. Fuel boiling, excessive fuel cap pressure are also clue

The CC in 03-07. Was moved from engine compartment, to being located above spare tire. It's location and height, in relation to fuel tank. Result in raw fuel, easily spilling into CC, when fuel tank overfilled. We find, starting in 2003 Land Cruiser/LX470 Owners Manual. Toyota added a warning: Do not add more fuel, once auto fuel pump handle shuts off.

Note: OM also warns us: Do not prolong idle.

.. I ordered a fuel pump but now thinking a canister issue. I'll order one. Whats the test for a bad canister?

In post #13 I gave you the "clues" of bad CC. The test, you'd have to be a mechanic with specialized service tools (SST). Even then, is often missed.

Only sometimes will we see a CEL, with DTC, pointing to EVAP issue. Sometimes only a pending DTC, which CEL doesn't pop on dash. Most time we don't get a CEL.

Wonder if this is a straightforward replacement, I think the can is near the spare tire area? I'm located near Aspen/Snowmass area. I didnt notice the RPM stall issue you mentioned.

Easy for me. When I R&R (remove and replace) CC in the 2006-2007. I also replace the CC pre-filter.

My failure to start was after a road trip to Fruita in 85 degree temps- I noticed the water gauge did tick up a notch-then stopped at post office and wouldn't start-

Your engine is running too hot. Which on hots days, runs hotter, along with clogged CC. Can result in erratic low RPM idle, while in gear (sitting at stop light) along with starting issues after stop a hot engine.

Above in post #13. I linked you, to an Alert. It's a thread on cleaning radiator fins. Study it. We must get engine and coolant system running at peak. Before replacing CC.

I did smell gas fumes. If its the canister, whats the way to tell?

Very likely is CC. The smell sometimes is like rancid fuel, been sitting in gas can for years. This indicates a CC that was flooded many years ago. Others CC flooding was more recent. They smell like fresh fuel only.

I should go to a NAPA and try to pull any codes

Sure. If you've a CEL (check engine light), NAPA find DTC (codes). If DTC are only pending, they may find DTC, you'll not see a dash CEL.

One other note:
In 2006- Toyota added the Secondary Air Injection system (S.A.I.). I created a modification, to correct a design flaw. (SAI filter Mod)

 

[NolaNomad]

Ah-ok this is great info! I ordered the CC ($800) and the fuel pump($500)- is this a no no to find a good used CC- I see one on eBay??

Next step is to locate the CC and the pre filter, it's part number and a replacement how to. Going to find if there is a CEL - I only see codes for my o2 sensors which I haven't dealt with for months now- i do overfill the tank and then splash in some fuel additives to help with the ethanol- I will stop doing this- other wise I'll replace the fuel filter up in the engine compartment and the PCV valve while I'm there.

 

[Trapper50cal]

I went with a used one off of ebay...they usually don't list the mileage of the truck the part came off of but this one that I bought had the mileage listed as 171K so I risked it. But as @2001LC and others have mentioned here and elsewhere, it only takes on incident of flooding the CC with an overfill of the tank to make it the same failure point as the original. I still get a little whiff on first start up, then it chills out for the rest of the day...SO, it's a dice roll to get used.

 

[NolaNomad]

Actually I did notice some filth on the body coming from the gas lid panel.. I ordered a fuel pump but now thinking a canister issue. I'll order one. Whats the test for a bad canister? Wonder if this is a straightforward replacement, I think the can is near the spare tire area? I'm located near Aspen/Snowmass area. I didnt notice the RPM stall issue you mentioned. My failure to start was after a road trip to Fruita in 85 degree temps- I noticed the water gauge did tick up a notch-then stopped at post office and wouldn't start- I did smell gas fumes. If its the canister, whats the way to tell? I should go to a NAPA and try to pull any codes

Gas fill area "filth", is your biggest clue, of clogged CC. Fuel boiling, excessive fuel cap pressure are also clue

The CC in 03-07. Was moved from engine compartment, to being located above spare tire. It's location and height, in relation to fuel tank. Result in raw fuel, easily spilling into CC, when fuel tank overfilled. We find, starting in 2003 Land Cruiser/LX470 Owners Manual. Toyota added a warning: Do not add more fuel, once auto fuel pump handle shuts off.

Note: OM also warns us: Do not prolong idle.


In post #13 I gave you the "clues" of bad CC. The test, you'd have to be a mechanic with specialized service tools (SST). Even then, is often missed.

Only sometimes will we see a CEL, with DTC, pointing to EVAP issue. Sometimes only a pending DTC, which CEL doesn't pop on dash. Most time we don't get a CEL.

Easy for me. When I R&R (remove and replace) CC in the 2006-2007. I also replace the CC pre-filter.

Your engine is running too hot. Which on hots days, runs hotter, along with clogged CC. Can result in erratic low RPM idle, while in gear (sitting at stop light) along with starting issues after stop a hot engine.

Above in post #13. I linked you, to an Alert. It's a thread on cleaning radiator fins. Study it. We must get engine and coolant system running at peak. Before replacing CC.

Very likely is CC. The smell sometimes is like rancid fuel, been sitting in gas can for years. This indicates a CC that was flooded many years ago. Others CC flooding was more recent. They smell like fresh fuel only.


Sure. If you've a CEL (check engine light), NAPA find DTC (codes). If DTC are only pending, they may find DTC, you'll not see a dash CEL.

One other note:
In 2006- Toyota added the Secondary Air Injection system (S.A.I.). I created a modification, to correct a design flaw. (SAI filter Mod)

I pulled the codes- only po420 + 430 I think this 02 sensors- a known issue I have. But nothing for the C Canister, evap ??

 

[2001LC]

Ah-ok this is great info! I ordered the CC ($800) and the fuel pump($500)- is this a no no to find a good used CC- I see one on eBay??

Next step is to locate the CC and the pre filter, it's part number and a replacement how to. Going to find if there is a CEL - I only see codes for my o2 sensors which I haven't dealt with for months now- i do overfill the tank and then splash in some fuel additives to help with the ethanol- I will stop doing this- other wise I'll replace the fuel filter up in the engine compartment and the PCV valve while I'm there.

If you can get the weight of used CC. Perhaps! But as a rule, buy new OEM if/while new available.