The birf I am looking at must be a newer birf (FJ60 or Late FJ40...). I need to find my older birf and take a look.
1983 FJ60 front axle job questions.
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The birf I am looking at must be a newer birf (FJ60 or Late FJ40...). I need to find my older birf and take a look.
I only have this picture of the new one and I dont know how they are made, from HERTH+BUSS JAKOPARTS, J2822002
mostly I stick to OEM but this seemed fine to me, and front is not often used as rear, with the front locker and 75016 tire they get stressed but never failed.
seems a standard size For: (bis=until, ab=from)
Maybe if you assemble them it will be clear: maybe only one way to assemble.
nice video how it works:
and breaks, I would think thick side out but dont know
0712or 17 Z+driveshaft And Axleshaft Joints+internal Parts Birfield Joint - Photo 9399105 - Transfer Of Power
mostly I stick to OEM but this seemed fine to me, and front is not often used as rear, with the front locker and 75016 tire they get stressed but never failed.
seems a standard size For: (bis=until, ab=from)
- FJ55
- BJ4# bis Bj. 7.80
- FJ4# ab Bj. 8.80
- FJ4# bis Bj. 7.80
- BJ4# ab Bj. 8.80
- RJ7#
- LJ7# bis Bj. 1.90
- BJ71
- BJ7#
- HJ61
- HJ60 ab Bj. 11.85
- HJ60 bis Bj. 10.85
- FJ6#
Maybe if you assemble them it will be clear: maybe only one way to assemble.
nice video how it works:
and breaks, I would think thick side out but dont know
0712or 17 Z+driveshaft And Axleshaft Joints+internal Parts Birfield Joint - Photo 9399105 - Transfer Of Power
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #104
To add to what Stump was saying, if you look at the FSM pics it seems that the cages were made with different markings that would differentiate which side of the cage faces inward toward the diff. It says that for the 40 series, you can look down on the cage holes and see that one side of the hole has a thicker band of metal than the other. In the pics for the 60 series, it says that "a=b", or rather that when you look down on the cage from above at the holes you CANNOT see a difference in width. Rather, the differentiator for 60 series cages is the width of the "chamfer".
I have a 1983 FJ60 and it is as the FSM manual shows ("a=b"). The problem for me is that there are two possible surfaces of the cage that I can see as having the chamfer such that I could be choosing either surface to face inward toward the diff depending on which chamfer I take to be the one the FSM refers to. I am trying to figure out the proper side. Kind of hard to explain in words I guess and I'm not a good drawer.
I will try to show it again by drawing, but I am an not a good artist by any means so please forgive me if it doesn't clear up my description.
OK, a simple method would be to install the star and some balls into the cage, outside the birf. You will notice that when installed one way, the protrusions on the star will extend past the cage... this is the wrong way.
- Thread starter
- #106
Stump - As far as switching axle sides for the birf, I don't have the other side disassembled and I kind of have alot of this rebuild stuff taking up space that I kind of need to clear out. Am I asking for real trouble if I don't swap sides or can I make do without it. I just don't know what the severity of not doing it is and I have to weigh space and time constraints with cost. I will do it if you say it is quite important to do the swap. Just let me know.
The birf looks good. Don't over pack the knuckle ball with grease! I's better to be a little light vs too much. I kind of mound a bunch on the back of the birf when install it then go 1/2 to 3/4's full in the knuckle.
I don't think its critical to swap sides, but it was just an opportunity if you had them both out.
I don't think its critical to swap sides, but it was just an opportunity if you had them both out.
- Thread starter
- #108
Frustratingly stymied by the circlip on the inner axle, I cant get the axle in the birf. I've tried hose clamps, wire ties and even nylon hose with a hose clamp all in an attempt to hold the circlip in the notch while I insert the axle into the birf. I hope I didnt mess up the new circlip as a few times it seemingly went in a bit on one side but couldnt get the other right. May have to get another new circlip because I am worried about it being ever so slightly stretched.
the key is to get the zip tie on there tight, with the zip part of the zip tie away from the opening in the clip, then position the axle lined up with the splines in the star I put my birf in a vice with the bell resting on the top of the vice and snuggly clamped with a rag around the nose. Then I slam it home.
- Thread starter
- #110
After cleaning the knuckle ball with brak-klean it is clear that there is some rust and other deformities on the ball. Should I worry about them or is there a recommended grinding media for getting rid of it without damaging the functionality of the ball ?
Let's see a picture of the back of the ball. The rust showing on the top of the ball is not an issue. You can use some sand paper or a greenie weenie to smooth it out.
- Thread starter
- #112
I've got some re-assembly questions after going through the FSM and searching through MUD forums. Any input is appreciated:
1) Knuckle studs
What torque should these be installed to ? Should I use loc-tite or something similar ? What about going in the opposite direction and applying oil or anti-sieze ?
The FSM gives no guidance on knuckle stud installation and there is no general consensus on MUD forums about it, it seems. Some say 50 ft-lbs while others say 30 and no more. Some say use loc-tite while others give examples of shearing off the studs because the loc-tite wouldn't give while on the road, which is scary. Some say to coat them in oil only (or anti-seize) while others point out that this would make it easier for the studs to come out, which is apparently a common thing to happen.
Any input would be appreciated.
2) Knuckle backing wipers installation
The FSM gives no guidance that I could see on the torque spec for the bolts that hold in the wiper set on the back of the knuckle. Does anyone know what this is ?
3) Adjusting nut, lock washer and locking nut
How much should I "loosen the adjusting nut" per the FSM ? The adjusting nut is the one closest to the wheel hub. Here are the directions:
1) Toque the adjusting nut to a torque value = A
2) Spin the wheel a few times.
3) Loosen the adjusting nut (this step is the source of my question).
4) Tighten the adjusting nut to a torque value = B
note : A >>>B
Can someone explain the purpose of these steps ? Should the adjusting nut, once step 4 is finished, NOT be in contact with the wheel hub ? I don't know the severity of the "loosen" step and I don't want to screw anything up which is why I ask. After the above steps are complete, the lock washer and locking nut are installed in a relatively straightforward manner with torque specs given etc.
Thanks in advance for everyone's time.
1) Knuckle studs
What torque should these be installed to ? Should I use loc-tite or something similar ? What about going in the opposite direction and applying oil or anti-sieze ?
The FSM gives no guidance on knuckle stud installation and there is no general consensus on MUD forums about it, it seems. Some say 50 ft-lbs while others say 30 and no more. Some say use loc-tite while others give examples of shearing off the studs because the loc-tite wouldn't give while on the road, which is scary. Some say to coat them in oil only (or anti-seize) while others point out that this would make it easier for the studs to come out, which is apparently a common thing to happen.
Any input would be appreciated.
2) Knuckle backing wipers installation
The FSM gives no guidance that I could see on the torque spec for the bolts that hold in the wiper set on the back of the knuckle. Does anyone know what this is ?
3) Adjusting nut, lock washer and locking nut
How much should I "loosen the adjusting nut" per the FSM ? The adjusting nut is the one closest to the wheel hub. Here are the directions:
1) Toque the adjusting nut to a torque value = A
2) Spin the wheel a few times.
3) Loosen the adjusting nut (this step is the source of my question).
4) Tighten the adjusting nut to a torque value = B
note : A >>>B
Can someone explain the purpose of these steps ? Should the adjusting nut, once step 4 is finished, NOT be in contact with the wheel hub ? I don't know the severity of the "loosen" step and I don't want to screw anything up which is why I ask. After the above steps are complete, the lock washer and locking nut are installed in a relatively straightforward manner with torque specs given etc.
Thanks in advance for everyone's time.
1) Knuckle studs
What torque should these be installed to? Loctite?
A: I used loctite... I don't know why you would want them to move. I go with "good and snug" The studs themselves do not need high torque, the nuts do. From Marlin's <-Link site, they say between 20 and 45 lb-ft. The nuts should be 71 lb-ft
2) Knuckle backing wipers installation
The FSM gives no guidance that I could see on the torque spec for the bolts that hold in the wiper set on the back of the knuckle. Does anyone know what this is ?
A: 10 lb-ft
3) Adjusting nut, lock washer and locking nut
How much should I "loosen the adjusting nut" per the FSM ? The adjusting nut is the one closest to the wheel hub. Here are the directions:
1) Toque the adjusting nut to a torque value = A
2) Spin the wheel a few times.
3) Loosen the adjusting nut (this step is the source of my question).
A: loosen it a turn or 2 away from the plate washer (basically enough to relieve the tension on the bearing
4) Tighten the adjusting nut to a torque value = B
note : A >>>B
A: This is to set preload. you don't want to disturb the hub between preloading and torqueing to final torque value. The final torque value is meant to maintain previously set preload, that is all.
Can someone explain the purpose of these steps ?
A: The purpose of the steps is to set the bearing preload. (make sure you get the hub all the way on the spindle, sometimes they can get hung up and you won't always know right away until you can't get the proper rotating torque 0f 6-12lbs on the fish scale (or whatever the FSM says).
You don't want the bearing pressed at 40 lb-ft or whatever it is. Thus the 5 lb-ft inner nut torque.
Pro tip: after final torqueing of the inner spindle nut and checking rotating pull resistance value (6-12 lb-ft), install the star lock washer, then spin on the outer nut finger tight, then bent the tab of the star washer that best lines up with a flat face of the inner spindle nut. Then torque the outer nut to about 60lb-ft or so (the locking nut will slightly affect the inner nut at times), then check the pull resistance again and, if good lock it in with a tab just like you did for the inner nut. If your rotating value is on the lowside, you can torque a bit more, if you like.
After the above steps are complete, the lock washer and locking nut are installed in a relatively straightforward manner with torque specs given etc.
What torque should these be installed to? Loctite?
A: I used loctite... I don't know why you would want them to move. I go with "good and snug" The studs themselves do not need high torque, the nuts do. From Marlin's <-Link site, they say between 20 and 45 lb-ft. The nuts should be 71 lb-ft
2) Knuckle backing wipers installation
The FSM gives no guidance that I could see on the torque spec for the bolts that hold in the wiper set on the back of the knuckle. Does anyone know what this is ?
A: 10 lb-ft
3) Adjusting nut, lock washer and locking nut
How much should I "loosen the adjusting nut" per the FSM ? The adjusting nut is the one closest to the wheel hub. Here are the directions:
1) Toque the adjusting nut to a torque value = A
2) Spin the wheel a few times.
3) Loosen the adjusting nut (this step is the source of my question).
A: loosen it a turn or 2 away from the plate washer (basically enough to relieve the tension on the bearing
4) Tighten the adjusting nut to a torque value = B
note : A >>>B
A: This is to set preload. you don't want to disturb the hub between preloading and torqueing to final torque value. The final torque value is meant to maintain previously set preload, that is all.
Can someone explain the purpose of these steps ?
A: The purpose of the steps is to set the bearing preload. (make sure you get the hub all the way on the spindle, sometimes they can get hung up and you won't always know right away until you can't get the proper rotating torque 0f 6-12lbs on the fish scale (or whatever the FSM says).
You don't want the bearing pressed at 40 lb-ft or whatever it is. Thus the 5 lb-ft inner nut torque.
Pro tip: after final torqueing of the inner spindle nut and checking rotating pull resistance value (6-12 lb-ft), install the star lock washer, then spin on the outer nut finger tight, then bent the tab of the star washer that best lines up with a flat face of the inner spindle nut. Then torque the outer nut to about 60lb-ft or so (the locking nut will slightly affect the inner nut at times), then check the pull resistance again and, if good lock it in with a tab just like you did for the inner nut. If your rotating value is on the lowside, you can torque a bit more, if you like.
After the above steps are complete, the lock washer and locking nut are installed in a relatively straightforward manner with torque specs given etc.
- Thread starter
- #114
Is it normal for the pre-load to increase once the rear wiper seals are installed on the back of the knuckle ?
With the trunion bearings, knuckle, top steering arm and bottom bearing pin and all the relevant shims installed, I have a consistent pre-load of 8 ft-lbs..
The birf, spindle etc. are NOT installed.
Now after I install the knuckle wiper set on the rear of the knuckle, I have a pre-load of about 14.
Is this to be expected ? Is this indicative of something wrong with my installation thus far ?
With the trunion bearings, knuckle, top steering arm and bottom bearing pin and all the relevant shims installed, I have a consistent pre-load of 8 ft-lbs..
The birf, spindle etc. are NOT installed.
Now after I install the knuckle wiper set on the rear of the knuckle, I have a pre-load of about 14.
Is this to be expected ? Is this indicative of something wrong with my installation thus far ?
- Thread starter
- #115
Is it normal for the pre-load to increase once the rear wiper seals are installed on the back of the knuckle ?
With the trunion bearings, knuckle, top steering arm and bottom bearing pin and all the relevant shims installed, I have a consistent pre-load of 8 ft-lbs..
The birf, spindle etc. are NOT installed.
Now after I install the knuckle wiper set on the rear of the knuckle, I have a pre-load of about 14.
Is this to be expected ? Is this indicative of something wrong with my installation thus far ?
With the trunion bearings, knuckle, top steering arm and bottom bearing pin and all the relevant shims installed, I have a consistent pre-load of 8 ft-lbs..
The birf, spindle etc. are NOT installed.
Now after I install the knuckle wiper set on the rear of the knuckle, I have a pre-load of about 14.
Is this to be expected ? Is this indicative of something wrong with my installation thus far ?
I'm currently doing the knuckles on my FJ62 and this was my experience. I am fairly certain the knuckle bearing pre-load is supposed to be measured prior to installing the wiper seal and felt. Once those are installed, the pre-load increases (I expect as the wiper/felt lubricate and wear, they will contribute less and less to pre-load). I just finished my passenger side Saturday and the knuckle bearing pre-load was about 13 lbs, but increased to 15-16 lbs once the wiper seal and felt were secured.
According to the folks at Low Range Offroad, if you are running oversized tires, you should adjust pre-load closer to 15 lbs without the wiper seal and felt. Here is the video i'm referencing:
- Thread starter
- #117
Thanks for the response, this is fantastic news (for me) haha! I didn't want to have to disassemble the knuckle again. I am running all stock so I am comfortable with the 8 lbs I had without the wipers. I've watched the "big three" knuckle rebuild video series' (by Jonesey's , Powermodz and Low Range off road) on youtube 1000 times it seems. They all offer different strengths, with the one from Low Range giving the most specific insight as to pre-load specs.
I have the FSM and, minus actually having the Toyota SST's for centering etc., the first pre-load is given with the knuckle mounted sans wipers, birf and spindle. The next pre-load given is for the wheel hub. The FSM mentions nothing about the wiper backing (no torque specs etc.) and it also doesn't have a section anywhere (i.e. not in the "front axle" or "brakes" section) for rebuilding the wheel hub. Thanks again for youtube !
I'm going to say yes, because the FSM preload is done without wipers installed and they do not specify to check preload again with wipers attached.
I have done them just like you described with no issues and I've had the same trunions in my rig since 2004.
- Thread starter
- #119
Another question regarding the wiper seals. Given the order of (closest to knuckle first to outermost closest to diff last):
1) metal ring with single slit
2) rubber ring
3) felt
4) metal retaining ring split in two
My question is, is piece # 2 supposed to fit in the same channel/groove in the back of the knuckle that part #1 fits into or is it supposed to "hang outside" if thst grrove like 3 and 4?
1) metal ring with single slit
2) rubber ring
3) felt
4) metal retaining ring split in two
My question is, is piece # 2 supposed to fit in the same channel/groove in the back of the knuckle that part #1 fits into or is it supposed to "hang outside" if thst grrove like 3 and 4?
The rubber wiper should fit inside the little ring area along with the metal ring... at least mine did (kit from Cruiser Outfitters).