Murf's Methanol injection install (2 Viewers)

[murf]

First, the 3 quart container was installed adjacent to the washer bottle and mounted to body with an aluminum strap using existing bolt holes in the fender. This allows the straight nozzle out of the bottom some room to circle back around. The Snow high volume pump is mounted at the pack of the passenger fender near the firewall. Currently I am running with the 175ML/minute nozzle with the pump set at 200 psi. This new style Snow pump is adjustable from 150psi to almost 400psi. After playing around with different nozzle sizes and pressures, this setup gives me the best balance of performance and fluid usage rate.
I have the system set up for normal day to day easy driving, so the idea is that this system will not be activated very often. I have needed to adjust the “kick-in” point. Currently it is kicking in at approximately 70% throttle. After several days of testing at 45% throttle activation and using up the juice with my foot, the usage rate is at a more reasonable level if I actively keep my foot out of it and stay with the new setting.

 

[murf]

Included in the kit is a green dash mounted LED bulb that tells you when the system is activated. The feedback is helpful on getting a “feel” for the system. There is also a red led that measures the float level in the bottle when it gets down to about 15%. This is good because when you run out, you have to re prime the pump which isn’t a big deal but better easier to just keep up on the level.
After driving aggressively and getting up to full temps, the hard acceleration had a stronger, continuous pull with the injection and the adjusted timing combination. I seem to run out of road around town here to be able to keep my foot down and see how far down the temperature will drop. I want to get on a long uphill and give it a longer dose of the methanol. So far the best long stretch on the freeway had me down to 68 degrees from 120 before I had to start slowing down.
The Benefits:
· No restriction to boosted air flow like an intercooler –but – while the intercooler has the advantage of cooling all the time, the injection cools the intake much colder when it does activate under load. I am currently seeing a 50 degree drop in intake temps under injection. The cooling has a residual affect that cools the system down and takes a little while to get back up to normal temps.
· Cools the cylinder to reduce knock / keep timing advanced
· The methanol mix acts as an increased octane boost (reportedly up to 116 octane from 91)
· Allows for some adjustments in more advanced base timing. Previously I was running at the factory spec of 3 degrees timing. Now I am running at 9 degrees timing and not getting any pre detonation with the injection at this level and feel more power throughout the full range.

 

[murf]

Methanol
Initially I opted for a couple gallons of the Snow branded “boost Juice” which is 49% methanol and 51% distilled water. Looking to keep costs reasonable, I am opting to make my own 50/50 mix with distilled water and a 5 gallon pail of Methanol from the local Fuel distributor and get my cost down per gallon of “mix” to less than half of what the premix costs.
More intake temp reduction efforts
The cooler the intake air is before the injection point the more effective the cooling of the air charge will be. So I wanted to do more >
Recognizing the massive source of heat to the engine compartment coming from the exhaust manifold and header located just under the Supercharger and adjacent to the intake system <ugh>, I tried an alternative versus getting the manifold and pipe ceramic coated. We installed a Thermo-Tec 6 cylinder exhaust manifold/header cover which was wrapped around the manifold and the pipes. We are obviously going for function over form here. The air filter housing was also covered in heat resistant material. After the install with the injection dialed off, I am seeing that it takes longer to heat up and when it tops out I am about 7-10 degrees cooler in intake temps.

I still need to clean up the wiring with some nice looms and do the final touches.

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

I predict that you're gonna want a larger meth tank before long.

I have dreamed of a large tank attached to frame rails, but filling it might prove to be problematic.

 

[inkpot]

I predict that you're gonna want a larger meth tank before long.

I have dreamed of a large tank attached to frame rails, but filling it might prove to be problematic.

Take a day cruise up to Payson and you will find plenty of opportunities to test it out on the hills and some WOT runs. Any feel for consumption rate yet? I have not had much luck with finding anyone that has hard numbers for this. John

 

[azrider]

awesome Eric, you wont ever be able to drive a cruiser like mine again.

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

Take a day cruise up to Payson and you will find plenty of opportunities to test it out on the hills and some WOT runs. Any feel for consumption rate yet? I have not had much luck with finding anyone that has hard numbers for this. John

Payson AZ or UT?

(you meant AZ)

no meth in my rig (yet) but i am installing it in my daily driver VW and have done a ton of research. I am going with the snow progressive controller, a small nozzle directly post-IC and a larger nozzle in a throttle body spacer, 'cause the throttle body on the BPY engine doesn't like getting soaked.

I am not going to bother to do a forced induction build on the 1FZ-FE, I have my heart set on a 4BD1T swap with turbo upgraded to do about 24psi, FMIC, and water/meth injection.

 

[murf]

I will have to see, but all the way up to Payson AZ with many opportunities for wot will most likely use up most of the bottle?

Ive thought of that too....

Im thinking on adding a t valve to the washer fluid line so I have a large reserve for trips like that. An additional line off the "t" would be routed into the top of the snow bottle.

Since washer fluid is methanol water anyway, Ill fill up the large factory windshield washer bottle also with the "good juice". When I am getting low, ill press the windsheild washer pump and be able to refill my snow bottle on the fly.

I iwll have to measure the fill rate so I have a feel of how long I will need to pump to refill once the red light comes on. Does anyone know how much fluid the factory 80 washer bottle holds? Its pretty big...

If I will be on dusty roads, etc once I get to the desired destination, I will flip the "t" and reroute the fluid back to the windshield washer.

At least thats the plan in my head. Im going to work on it this weekend if I have time.

 

[Funner]

Is the methanol either on or off ie flowing at 175 ml/minute or 0 ml/minute? At the 175 ml/minute the bottle will only supply about 16 minutes of fun before the juice is no mas. You might need a subtank if that flow rate is correct

 

[inkpot]

I will have to see, but all the way up to Payson AZ with many opportunities for wot will most likely use up most of the bottle?

Ive thought of that too....

Im thinking on adding a t valve to the washer fluid line so I have a large reserve for trips like that. An additional line off the "t" would be routed into the top of the snow bottle.

Since washer fluid is methanol water anyway, Ill fill up the large factory windshield washer bottle also with the "good juice". When I am getting low, ill press the windsheild washer pump and be able to refill my snow bottle on the fly.

I iwll have to measure the fill rate so I have a feel of how long I will need to pump to refill once the red light comes on. Does anyone know how much fluid the factory 80 washer bottle holds? Its pretty big...

If I will be on dusty roads, etc once I get to the desired destination, I will flip the "t" and reroute the fluid back to the windshield washer.

At least thats the plan in my head. Im going to work on it this weekend if I have time.

Should work, but it will be slow and your finger will get tired. I'm guessing that the WW bottle holds about 3 qts, aslo. I know it is less than a gallon, as it will not hold a full jug when I fill it up from empty.

I can get WWWF for under $2 per gallon, but I would be interested in mixing my own in bulk for the higher meth content. I have some nice 55 gallon drums I can use if it comes to that.


I suppose I could carry 5 gallons in one of my interior gerry cans? John

 

[Tapage]

I have a switch that override the hole system .. so I control when it's triggered or not .. on my daily basics rolling around the town I usually have it off .. but well you never know when a second of fun will show ..

 

[murf]

Is the methanol either on or off ie flowing at 175 ml/minute or 0 ml/minute? At the 175 ml/minute the bottle will only supply about 16 minutes of fun before the juice is no mas. You might need a subtank if that flow rate is correct

The flow is based of MAF voltage. For example if the start voltage is 2 volts, the flow is at 10% and will linearly adjust the pump output up to 100% at 5 volts (full setting at WOT) from the MAF signal. So the flow is not full on/off.​

Should work, but it will be slow and your finger will get tired. I'm guessing that the WW bottle holds about 3 qts, aslo. I know it is less than a gallon, as it will not hold a full jug when I fill it up from empty.

I can get WWWF for under $2 per gallon, but I would be interested in mixing my own in bulk for the higher meth content. I have some nice 55 gallon drums I can use if it comes to that.


I suppose I could carry 5 gallons in one of my interior gerry cans? John

Possibility on the tired finger? Will only know for sure once I get try that road trip on the feasibility of the ww bottle backup. Between the two, I would think the worst case would be to have this total approx 1.7 gal available on the way up and fill back up if required for the trip back.

Agreed on the washer fluid (10-20% meth) vs the benefit the 50% mix and the higher octane it brings to the engine. LIke you hint at: Higher octane = slower, better burn & no ping. If you have the 55 gal barrel, the fluid is cheap-ish. The barrel is where alot of the $$ comes from! Let me know if you do a meth set up too - maybe spilt a barrel?

I have a switch that override the hole system .. so I control when it's triggered or not .. on my daily basics rolling around the town I usually have it off .. but well you never know when a second of fun will show ..

That makes good sense. I do have that option of being able to dial the controller to either not come on at all or come on only in total wide open throttle situations. I know the challenges of fluid usage and will figure a way to make it work one way or the other. Heck, you shouldve seen the usage when I initially ran the 375 ml nozzle and had it come on at 35% pedal! <slurp!>

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

The local race shop says it can sell 5gal pails of methanol for $30-$35 depending on market fluctuations. That plus distilled water comes out to less than $4/gal - which is cheaper than a gallon of WWF spiked with a couple-three bottles of HEET.

It can be bought from janitorial and industrial chemical supply stores too. You just might have to explain why you want it.

US Plastic has a lot of good tanks at mostly reasonable prices. Trick is figuring out where to mount it.

The guys over at golfmkv are extolling the virtues of Devil's Own's check valves, which have a cracking pressure of something like 16psi and thus prevent both gravity flow and weeping due to vacuum under deceleration.

I hope to make some progress on my WMI install on the GTI this weekend. If only it weren't blistering hot out.

 

[murf]

The local race shop says it can sell 5gal pails of methanol for $30-$35 depending on market fluctuations. That plus distilled water comes out to less than $4/gal - which is cheaper than a gallon of WWF spiked with a couple-three bottles of HEET.

It can be bought from janitorial and industrial chemical supply stores too. You just might have to explain why you want it.

US Plastic has a lot of good tanks at mostly reasonable prices. Trick is figuring out where to mount it.

The guys over at golfmkv are extolling the virtues of Devil's Own's check valves, which have a cracking pressure of something like 16psi and thus prevent both gravity flow and weeping due to vacuum under deceleration.

I hope to make some progress on my WMI install on the GTI this weekend. If only it weren't blistering hot out.

What? Blistering hot in Utah?! I didnt know....

I just ordered a couple 5 gal pails and am paying $25.00 each. Hope to get at around $3.00 gal after mixing w/ distilled.

Snow Performance's previous design required a seperarate valve if the tank was above the level of the injector or if plumbed after the boost. I was glad to hear the new snow nozzle design is similar to what you mention and also has a check valve built in - I think this is much better.

What year is your GTI - maybe post up a pic?

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

I was not aware that Snow nozzles now feature a check valve. I should determine whether the nozzle i recently acquired has one.

Would beat the hell out of paying $30/valve to Devil's Own.

My GTI is an '07 in United Gray Metallic. GIAC tune, horrifying frankenstein 3" turbo-back exhaust that came with it, lame BSH 3" intake i want to get rid of, 24mm solid Whiteline sway bars front and rear. Billet end links on the RSB. Koni FSD dampers and Eibach ProKit springs (because it gets driven 400mi/wk)

Yes those wheels once belonged to a Jeep JK.

A couple weeks ago i replaced that blacked out side marker with one that blends a little better and has the same lens design as the turn signals.

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

Now, if there were just a way to mount one of these under the truck:

5 Gallon Black Low Profile Tank w/Center 2-1/4" Neck - 18.75"L x 10.87"W x 6.87"H - $23.71

On this page you will find several variations on the standard Snow tank, including the 6qt version i am installing in the back of my GTI

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

What? Blistering hot in Utah?! I didnt know....

I'm sure it's worse in az but you sound like a guy who has a garage to do this kind of thing in.

Here's what I saw when I left work an hour ago:

 

[yellowstoner]

That is hot for Utah Valley. We lived in Orem for 20 years and have been in the PHX area for two. My daughter took a similar dashboard picture in our Passat last year. But it was 13 degrees higher than yours.

 

[murf]

I measured the flow rate out of the stock washer bottle today and was pleasantly suprised. It takes 14 seconds to pump a quart (32 oz. if I remember right?).

Then drilled a 9/32nd hole on top of the cap and the now cut hose from the washer pump fit nice and snug through the top. The underside of the hood doesn't touch the loop to kink the hose (I checked first).

I put a straight through barb to reconnect the washer line back to the ww nozzles. Also put black tape over the hole while the hose wasn't hooked up.

I use this on the next big trip and see how it goes. At least I know when the red "low fluid" light comes on, I can pump just shy of 3 quarts into the snow bottle and count off 40 seconds.

or two sessions of 20 seconds and rest in between

 

[86tuning]

Murf why not use a hose to siphon the fluid from one tank to the other? Would have the same effect as having one larger tank for both systems. Shouldn't need to pump it, as long as your siphon hose stays full, which it will until one of the tanks is completely empty.