Cybertruck or 200 Series Land Cruiser? (5 Viewers)

[zafar11]

I was an early order of Cybertruck ... 1 month ago.. An email from Tesla said that I could build my Foundation series Cybertruck... See pictures below.

In the end.. 200 won... I did NOT have enough in me to sell my 200 Land Cruiser LAST V8 powered and buy a Cybertruck.

Land Cruiser WINS !!!!! Cannot and will not sell my Land Cruiser

 

[TeCKis300]

Great decision.

I'm in line for possible CT order later this year.

I also won't replace the 200-series with the CT. My hope is the CT will complement the 200-series for more plebian uses like commuting and normal road trips with its superior performance and efficiency. Adventure and off-road trips will still stay the domain of the 200-series.

I'm in between whether the CT can take over for RV towing trip/duties or if they will share that burden depending on destination. I'm not confident the CT will handle longer trips, especially with the less mature charging network, but that will also improve with time.

I'm hoping the CT will do well enough, especially in towing duties, where it will open up how aggressive I can further mod the 200-series. Would love to step to larger tires. Possibly camper conversion.

My sports car is shaking in its tires as it may get the boot to make space for the CT.

 

[zafar11]

Great thoughts TeCIK300. I debated a lot.... What I ordered was Tri motor .. 500 miles range.. Currently CT is not even 350 in real world. I might go with CT and sacrifice my Jeep Wrangler JL.. but I will keep my LC.

 

[TeCKis300]

Great thoughts TeCIK300. I debated a lot.... What I ordered was Tri motor .. 500 miles range.. Currently CT is not even 350 in real world. I might go with CT and sacrifice my Jeep Wrangler JL.. but I will keep my LC.

Yeah, I can see how it would be a hard decision now. The CT in its current trim is not quite there and the 4680 maturity is holding things back. Battery capacity is just short. There is an expected cybercell 3b chemistry upgrade later this year that should increase battery capacity by 10-15%, bringing it more inline with expectations. Along with release of the range extender pack. Cyberbeast trims seem to be on hold, probably awaiting this battery upgrade. The current trim forces AT tires, which further compromises range.

Hoping for a Cyberbeat with upgraded batt and range extender.

To be fair, the 200-series never had 350 mile range and we're now judging EVs by similar standards. With the addition of AT tires, 300 mile was hard to reach. As I use it primarily around town, mpg is dismal at 11-12 MPG. Highway is okay at best. Granted, fuel infrastructure is everywhere, so long as I am happy to feed the hippo.

 

[zafar11]

Agree

 

[Itsky]

---snip--

To be fair, the 200-series never had 350 mile range and we're now judging EVs by similar standards. With the addition of AT tires, 300 mile was hard to reach. As I use it primarily around town, mpg is dismal at 11-12 MPG. Highway is okay at best. Granted, fuel infrastructure is everywhere, so long as I am happy to feed the hippo.

My 200 series on 33" tires and a lift does get 350 range, easily.

Three best tanks out of my last 10.

-312 miles, 17.8 Gallons, 17.52 MPG
-325 miles, 20.4 Gallons. 15.96 MPG
-342 Miles, 20.2 Gallons, 16.95 MPG

24.6 Gallon tank and 350 miles is ony 14.2 MPG. In the past year, I was only below that four times, once 100% around town, once towing a boat to Tahoe, and the other two times were camping trips with 4lo.

With a stock truck I'd be able to get 400.

 

[TeCKis300]

My 200 series on 33" tires and a lift does get 350 range, easily.

Three best tanks out of my last 10.

-312 miles, 17.8 Gallons, 17.52 MPG
-325 miles, 20.4 Gallons. 15.96 MPG
-342 Miles, 20.2 Gallons, 16.95 MPG

24.6 Gallon tank and 350 miles is ony 14.2 MPG. In the past year, I was only below that four times, once 100% around town, once towing a boat to Tahoe, and the other two times were camping trips with 4lo.

With a stock truck I'd be able to get 400.

Fair point.

For ICE vehicles, highways are where they have their best efficiency and your numbers certainly reflect that. The EPA test is a combined city and highway cycle weighted together 55% to 45% respectively. I was quoting the combined numbers of 344.4 miles range for the 200-series.

LX - 344.4 / 295.20 / 393.60 EPA combined/city/highway (miles) range - EPA fuel economy, combined/city/highway (mpg) 14 / 12 / 16
LC - 344.4 / 319.80 / 418.20 EPA combined/city/highway (miles) range - EPA fuel economy, combined/city/highway (mpg) 14 / 13 / 17

EVs are opposite with their best range on local roads. So 350 miles range is with the same EPA 55/45% city/highway mix. On local, EVs can go even further than 350 miles. On the freeway only, there's no hope to reach that far. Then when you consider the std EPA test cycle maxes out at ~60mph.

The CT is running on really large 35" AT tires. Rivian has a similar big tire option and they quote a 10-15% range loss. My 35" tires certainly saw about a 10% hit all around, compared to the factory 31.5" H/Ts.

No worries, aux tank to the rescue. Smiles per mile and the 200-series delivers.

 

[rscoleman]

Zero plans to get rid of my LC for Cyberthing. We do have on order a Lexus IS500 F Sport to replace wife's Infiniti. Last of V8 4door GT cars. Hope the IS holds up a well as Infiniti has.

 

[Heckraiser]

@TeCKis300 I know you're a well-informed guy, but reading your post about road trips and road trips potentially in conjunction with your airstream does make me cringe a little. I am a long-term tesla owner, going on 100k miles and 5 years, and drove an electric chevy before that. The LAST thing I would purchase an EV for is family road trips. I'm not knocking EV's at all, they're great at lots of stuff, but that is their major weakness. I frequently go on cross-state trips to Utah or Wyoming with my group of friends in multiple vehicles and one of my buddies takes his MYLR and regularly shows up to camp 1-2 hours later than everybody else. I guess if your destination is less than 100 miles away (with camper) or less than (150 w/o camper), the CT might be the right tool for the job. There are pretty much no pull-through superchargers, so trips with a trailer really must fit within one charge round trip for any sort of practicality. For my part, if I'm going farther than Cheyenne or Vail, I take the minivan or the wife's RX.

 

[coleAK]

@TeCKis300 I know you're a well-informed guy, but reading your post about road trips and road trips potentially in conjunction with your airstream does make me cringe a little. I am a long-term tesla owner, going on 100k miles and 5 years, and drove an electric chevy before that. The LAST thing I would purchase an EV for is family road trips. I'm not knocking EV's at all, they're great at lots of stuff, but that is their major weakness. I frequently go on cross-state trips to Utah or Wyoming with my group of friends in multiple vehicles and one of my buddies takes his MYLR and regularly shows up to camp 1-2 hours later than everybody else. I guess if your destination is less than 100 miles away (with camper) or less than 150 w/o camper, the CT might be the right tool for the job. For my part, if I'm going farther than Cheyenne or Vail, I take the minivan or the wife's RX.

9 years in 2 teslas, I tow a Camper up to 10k miles a summer and I fully agree. With the 300 mile CT you will be lucky to get 100 miles of usable range towing an airstream on the highway.

 

[White Stripe]

One of the offroad tests on the cyber truck was interesting. A guy went to engage the Tesla version of differential lockers and got a message "option coming soon." Or something to that effect. I guess the software for the lockers feature needs to be developed more before it will be a available feature.

 

[coleAK]

First think I’ll say is 9 years now with 2 Tesla, EVs are better in almost every way. Electricity is pennies on the dollar compared to gas, almost no maintenance, charging takes so much less time then getting gas, they are fast, much simpler mechanically,…. Heck, I’ve switched to battery chainsaws, string trimmers, lawn mower, even this winter a battery snow blower (Toro, and performs way better then the Honda I had before it) and I’m in Alaska, we are at >300” so far this winter.

I started with a 2014 model S. In 2018 I switched to a LR AWD 3. I can’t wait to be able to get an EV to replace my LX. I had a reservation on a Rivian that I canceled due to the 20” rims and air suspension.

I reserved a CT day 1 of the unveiling. The. I canceled my reservation shortly after they released the actual production stats. Tesla fell majorly short on this one. $20k more than a lightning with similar range? The Silverado EV will be $30k less with 50% more range…. For $10k more I could get a Hummer EV.

So my thought process on the CT. I can’t tow with it, can’t off road with it, it is a 5 seater, bed is small and poorly designed, Tesla quirks , the vault isn’t waterproof,…. My model 3 has a roof rack and 2” receiver, the rear seats lay flat, there really isn’t anything I could do with a CT that I can’t do with my 3.

So I canceled, it it were the initial presented 500 miles for <$80k would have meant I could have gotten 200 miles towing my camper and probably 350-400 miles on the highway. I would have stayed in.

My prediction is the CT will be the first major flop for Tesla. Elon went so overboard with over promising and under delivering (even for him). I don’t think I’d buy another Tesla, we have a lot more options today then even 2018 when I got my 3. I think it would have been smarter if they would built the CT as more of a maverick, Ridgeline, Santa Cruz “lifestyle truck” competitor then 1/2 ton.

I still have my reservation on the Silverado. And surprisingly the ram with a smaller battery and built in 130k generator looks like a pretty awesome idea.

To sum it up I don’t see any reason to buy a CT over a 3 or Y.

 

[coleAK]

And it got out off roaded by a Subaru cross trek.

 

[Nothinghead]

Wait. It has hubcaps? Can I get hubcaps for my LX?

 

[TeCKis300]

@TeCKis300 I know you're a well-informed guy, but reading your post about road trips and road trips potentially in conjunction with your airstream does make me cringe a little. I am a long-term tesla owner, going on 100k miles and 5 years, and drove an electric chevy before that. The LAST thing I would purchase an EV for is family road trips. I'm not knocking EV's at all, they're great at lots of stuff, but that is their major weakness. I frequently go on cross-state trips to Utah or Wyoming with my group of friends in multiple vehicles and one of my buddies takes his MYLR and regularly shows up to camp 1-2 hours later than everybody else. I guess if your destination is less than 100 miles away (with camper) or less than (150 w/o camper), the CT might be the right tool for the job. There are pretty much no pull-through superchargers, so trips with a trailer really must fit within one charge round trip for any sort of practicality. For my part, if I'm going farther than Cheyenne or Vail, I take the minivan or the wife's RX.

Totally agree and its a legitimate concern. I've been playing with numbers and having discussions over on the airforums side. What's fact, and to your point, is that the CT as configured and delivered today, is not a tool that is capable of the job. I'm going into this eyes wide open and doing some due diligence and I've had 3 EVs in my garage over the last 12 yrs, with many 1k miles trips under my belt.

This is not the final trim and there will be ongoing development and configurations for the CT. I'm particularly watching for the battery upgrade. Pricing doesn't make for good value when measured against strict capability, but that's also a figment of ramp and limited product today. Albeit that's arguable on this point for early adopters that want it's other qualities and attention.

Here's a table I made. Doesn't project for the upgraded CT battery later this year. Adding the LX as a reference. I do think the CT will be outstanding as a solo trip vehicle in longer range configurations. For daily commute and around town, it'll be an indulgent missile that the 200-series can't touch. For towing, the jury is still out.

 

[coleAK]

Totally agree and its a legitimate concern. I've been playing with numbers and having discussions over on the airforums side. What's fact, and to your point, is that the CT as configured and delivered today, is not a tool that is capable of the job. I'm going into this eyes wide open and doing some due diligence and I've had 3 EVs in my garage over the last 12 yrs, with many 1k miles trips under my belt.

This is not the final trim and there will be ongoing development and configurations for the CT. I'm particularly watching for the battery upgrade. Pricing doesn't make for good value when measured against strict capability, but that's also a figment of ramp and limited product today. Albeit that's arguable on this point for early adopters that want it's other qualities and attention.

Here's a table I made. Doesn't project for the upgraded CT battery later this year. Adding the LX as a reference. I do think the CT will be outstanding as a solo trip vehicle in longer range configurations. For daily commute and around town, it'll be an indulgent missile that the 200-series can't touch. For towing, the jury is still out.

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I would be 100% floored if the range extender ever makes it to market. I have a strong suspicion that is it typical Elon vaporware to make it look on paper line the CT isn’t behind the competition.

Same as when you go to the Tesla site the vehicles prices by default reflects the tax credit and estimated fuel savings.

 

[bloc]

Tesla “quirks” on a few levels.

 

[coleAK]

Tesla “quirks” on a few levels.

I still hate the lack of interior lighting and the glass roof in my model 3.

Winters in Alaska are cold and dark. It hasn’t been above 0F since before Christmas.

 

[TeCKis300]

I would be 100% floored if the range extender ever makes it to market. I have a strong suspicion that is it typical Elon vaporware to make it look on paper line the CT isn’t behind the competition.

Same as when you go to the Tesla site the vehicles prices by default reflects the tax credit and estimated fuel savings.

I guess I'm not that pessimistic. I can see the interfaces and development roadmap this is taking, which is not unexpected given the component and software maturation that has to happen.

Philosophically, no car is perfect. Plenty of quirks in the 200-series too, some of which I love or accept. Range being a major one. The CT is surely not perfect, but it has some unique traits and blend of qualities that can't be had elsewhere. Versus a traditional truck that can be had in as many colors as there is skittles, but all more or less taste the same.

My overlanding has also taught me to enjoy the journey. I'm not in a mad rush to the destination. The CT might create some interesting adventure in itself.

I've not seen this pointed out elsewhere but this bump is the interface of the range ext battery to the Power Conversion Board / BMS of the integrated battery in the floor. 500 miles will happen. Question is when and if it'll be enough for big trailer towing.

 

[Valgrind]

Thank god