Wits End Turbo Owners

[Mudder]

Wit's End?

forum.ih8mud.com

This is a better place for all of this. It is the bad sellers and buyer beware section. Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, but Beno is right and this is the tech section. There’s also 7 other threads on the first page about Wits End in there as well.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Is there any tech left in this thread? Doesn’t seem so. I think it’s time to move this elsewhere.

It’s about time mods move in and curtail this.

Or at least parse out the tech and move all the rest to another area of MUD.

What? Bury it so more people get suckered?

He's used the forum and threads like this one to promote his products and business to his own advantage. Now the table has turned, time to reap what's been sewn.

If he's now circling the drain, burying thus thread does the whole forum and community a disservice.

Seems to me he's not started out with any intention to stiff people, but gotten in too deep and lost control of cash flow.
Extremely common for small businesses.

90% of small business fail within 10 years of starting. 10% in the first year.

Being a great product developer doesn't equate to being a great business manager.

 

[SNLC]

You'd need a pretty radical camshaft to facilitate a similar power gain, turbo would be much more usable power.
I'd expect about 80kw at the wheels for a stock FZJ80, which is about 108 hp. You'll comfortably double that with mild boost and a good tune, whilst having a good usable powerband.

I got 115hp at all four with 8* of timing!




Cheers

 

[fjbj40]

What? Bury it so more people get suckered?

He's used the forum and threads like this one to promote his products and business to his own advantage. Now the table has turned, time to reap what's been sewn.

If he's now circling the drain, burying thus thread does the whole forum and community a disservice.

Seems to me he's not started out with any intention to stiff people, but gotten in too deep and lost control of cash flow.
Extremely common for small businesses.

90% of small business fail within 10 years of starting. 10% in the first year.

Being a great product developer doesn't equate to being a great business manager.

Great point, he used the tech section for promotion so it should stay here to promote his horrible business practice’s!

 

[Hoorejo]

This brings up another interesting question, how many people actually have a Wit's End turbo kit to even discuss on here? Does anyone know how many Joey actually shipped?

I support moving this to another thread for the simple reason that it will help us focus solely on the discussion of holding Wit's End accountable. The cat's out of the bag and it will be hard for anyone to ignore the $&#@storm that's gone down on here, whether we move it elsewhere or not.

I also encourage anyone who's been stiffed by Wit's End to leave a Google review via Google Maps. As individual actions, these reviews mean little but 25 reviews all saying the same thing starts to establish a pattern, something that could help our cause down the road. Plus, it will help folks like me that haven't spent much time on Mud or Facebook connect: Wits' End · 4445 Table Rock Rd, Central Point, OR 97502 - https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wits'+End/@43.0011717,-121.2936647,6.25z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x54cf7d80a888d5d3:0x24e74de8d796f941!8m2!3d42.3815163!4d-122.8859693!16s%2Fg%2F11tmfldvyl?entry=ttu

I also feel that it's time for those of us who are ready to take action move this to a closed session so we can start talking about next steps. I'm not sure whether that should be done on here or somewhere like Facebook, where more people are likely to join.

If someone already has something like this going or is interested in getting something like this going please PM or email me at hoorejo@gmail.com. I'd like to hear what others have done or are planning to do and get a sense of who's serious about pursuing Wit's End by all legal means available.

 

[Whitetail]

Long time listener, first time caller. For those of you running this kit, what kind of ARF are you seeing under normal driving and then under boost? On my supercharged 1st gen Tacoma the AFR was the standard 14.7:1 around town but under boost (8-9 psi) my URD controller would retard the timing and the 7th injector was tuned to get ARF to about 11:1. This was to reduce detonation and keep the EGT down to keep the engine from melting. I’m curious what everyone is seeing on the stock fuel system and timing? I’m assuming it’s the standard 14.7:1 AFR and pinging to hell, especially when it’s hot. Please feed me some tech on the topic. I’d love to know.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Long time listener, first time caller. For those of you running this kit, what kind of ARF are you seeing under normal driving and then under boost? On my supercharged 1st gen Tacoma the AFR was the standard 14.7:1 around town but under boost (8-9 psi) my URD controller would retard the timing and the 7th injector was tuned to get ARF to about 11:1. This was to reduce detonation and keep the EGT down to keep the engine from melting. I’m curious what everyone is seeing on the stock fuel system and timing? I’m assuming it’s the standard 14.7:1 AFR and pinging to hell, especially when it’s hot. Please feed me some tech on the topic. I’d love to know.

My turbo 1FZ wasn't the kit in question, but no, ~11:1 on boost. Once the MAF gets saturated the ECU goes to full fuel which is how this can work on a factory ECU.

 

[scottryana]

Long time listener, first time caller. For those of you running this kit, what kind of ARF are you seeing under normal driving and then under boost? On my supercharged 1st gen Tacoma the AFR was the standard 14.7:1 around town but under boost (8-9 psi) my URD controller would retard the timing and the 7th injector was tuned to get ARF to about 11:1. This was to reduce detonation and keep the EGT down to keep the engine from melting. I’m curious what everyone is seeing on the stock fuel system and timing? I’m assuming it’s the standard 14.7:1 AFR and pinging to hell, especially when it’s hot. Please feed me some tech on the topic. I’d love to know.

You are assuming wrong. The tech on the topic has been kicked around for a decade at this point.

 

[Whitetail]

You are assuming wrong. The tech on the topic has been kicked around for a decade at this point.

My turbo 1FZ wasn't the kit in question, but no, ~11:1 on boost. Once the MAF gets saturated the ECU goes to full fuel which is how this can work on a factory ECU.

Do you have a wideband and if so what numbers are you seeing?

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Yes I did, but don't have the 1FZ anymore.
I can tell you that ~11:1 AFRs on boost and no issues over 100,000 km of driving.

 

[mehbohdi]

Having had mine for a couple years now, idling and steady cruise 14.5-14.7:1, WOT 7 lbs uphill richest I've seen 10.8.-1. Briefly had detonation issues early on, backed timing off to what was recommended and always running 92 octane fuel. Haven't had any issues since. Going to add a adjustable boost controller (turboshttps://www.turbosmart.com/product/boost-tee-manual-boost-controller-black/mart) and slowly bump it up see what I can get away with. Have heard a few people getting up to 10lbs with stock fueling, that might be a little high but 8-9lbs might be tolerable. Just ordered controller should have it soon I'll post results.

 

[ericb1]

Beno, I agree with you 100%

Unfortunatly, the TECH section is where he solicited all of his business. We owe it to others, to protect them from the same fate

The ideal solution would be if the Moderator where to sticky this at the top of TECH section

we will call it: AT WITTS END, WITH WITTS END

 

[Hoorejo]

Beno, I agree with you 100%

Unfortunatly, the TECH section is where he solicited all of his business. We owe it to others, to protect them from the same fate

The ideal solution would be if the Moderator where to sticky this at the top of TECH section

we will call it: AT WITTS END, WITH WITTS END

@ericb1, I agree with that approach although there might already be a thread by that name or something similar?

Whatever we call it I suggest we make it a fairly specific thread for those seeking to recover money from Wits End for turbo kits not received and name it as such. A place where folks can go to find out who's doing what already and share ideas about how we can tackle this as a group. That would be a good place to get @lazy's list fully fleshed out and figure out who's on board for the next step, whatever that may be.

I think it's time we all get in a virtual room and bust out a plan and let these guys get back to discussing legitimate turbo tech. I think @ericb1's idea of a sticky at the top of this thread is a great idea as well.

 

[scottryana]

Do you have a wideband and if so what numbers are you seeing?

Yep I do and being lean under boost has never been a problem on the OBDII trucks.

 

[sundaycruiser]

Yeah just give Joey a ring, all those lines are handmade, it is possible a fitting was clocked the wrong directi

pictures of the completed exhaust. Will reinstall once I figure out the drain and get the downpipe back in. 2.5 inch stainless all the way back up and over the frame.

View attachment 3051294View attachment 3051295View attachment 3051296View attachment 3051297

Did u delete the front cat and y pipe?

 

[Feldrian]

A note to the Mods - This thread probably saved me the $7k a lot of these guys have swinging in the wind with Wit's End at the moment. I've been looking for options for more power for my 80 and had been considering a turbo and of course came here to the Tech section of the forums to better understand my options . I've had previous transactions with Wit's End, and though some things have taken quite some time to arrive (QMP, primarily) I've never had the issues these buyers seem to be facing. I wouldn't have thought to look Wit's End up on the Bad Sellers threads based on my previous experience and a lot of people who sing Joey's praises here in the Tech forum. Ultimately I would have quite likely been another frustrated MUD member waiting for equipment to arrive and wondering if I was simply out a hefty sum of money.

Ultimately I hope Wit's End makes good on all of these orders, however as a buyer I'd never have known this issue was going on unless I'd found this thread in Tech.

 

[lazy]

A note to the Mods - This thread probably saved me the $7k a lot of these guys have swinging in the wind with Wit's End at the moment. I've been looking for options for more power for my 80 and had been considering a turbo and of course came here to the Tech section of the forums to better understand my options . I've had previous transactions with Wit's End, and though some things have taken quite some time to arrive (QMP, primarily) I've never had the issues these buyers seem to be facing. I wouldn't have thought to look Wit's End up on the Bad Sellers threads based on my previous experience and a lot of people who sing Joey's praises here in the Tech forum. Ultimately I would have quite likely been another frustrated MUD member waiting for equipment to arrive and wondering if I was simply out a hefty sum of money.

Ultimately I hope Wit's End makes good on all of these orders, however as a buyer I'd never have known this issue was going on unless I'd found this thread in Tech.

This is the issue, when the threads became chocked full of praises for Joey and his "engineering," there was never any comment or discussion about moving the thread or posts to the vendor section.

IMO, the mods made their bed when they let all the lavish praises rain down in the tech section. If they want to move this discussion to the bad sellers, that's their decision. But as a fellow cruiser head and knowing what we know today, if I were them, I would have a hard time justifying that knowing someone else could get ripped off by Joey. Again, my opinion only.

 

[Broski]

R

This is the issue, when the threads became chocked full of praises for Joey and his "engineering," there was never any comment or discussion about moving the thread or posts to the vendor section.

IMO, the mods made their bed when they let all the lavish praises rain down in the tech section. If they want to move this discussion to the bad sellers, that's their decision. But as a fellow cruiser head and knowing what we know today, if I were them, I would have a hard time justifying that knowing someone else could get ripped off by Joey. Again, my opinion only.

Very well said !!!

 

[PIP]

How many turbo kits are incomplete/undelivered total? What is the extent here?

Half a dozen or so seems like some over-optimism got the best of the alleged perpetrator and it shouldn't be that big of a deal to come clean and refund/work through finishing off and shipping out. Maybe he can salvage his business and work hard to earn back the trust of his customer base.

A dozen+ unfinished, unshipped turbo kits sounds like fraud to me.

 

[PDXDave67]

How many turbo kids are incomplete/undelivered total? What is the extent here?

Half a dozen or so seems like some over-optimism got the best of the alleged perpetrator and it shouldn't be that big of a deal to come clean and refund/work through finishing off and shipping out. Maybe he can salvage his business and work hard to earn back the trust of his customer base.

A dozen+ unfinished, unshipped turbo kits sounds like fraud to me.

The last time Joey talked to me about the kits and back orders, he had 18 pending and was in the process of shipping 3 that week.
That leaves 15 and I haven't seen an update anywhere since then, and he's quit talking to anyone about it.
I was told the that "the remaining kits were complete and ready to ship, and he was just waiting on the actual turbos, as Borg Warner wasn't being cooperative"
True or not, that's last thing I heard.
I'm probably near the end of those 15 backorders, as I think I was probably one of the last orders taken.