Vacuum Advance... Rebuild.

[Seth S]

If you were willing to reinvent the wheel:

Well, in reality, I am a re invent the wheel kinda guy. Otherwise I would be driving a Honda Pilot, rather than a FJ60.

You could eliminate the stock distributor and install coil pack ignition. You either need a tone wheel somewhere or a magnet pickup on the flywheel to tell the new system where TDC is. Then the flywheel does the actual trigger signal through an independant ecu and fires the coils accordingly. You could probably do a waste spark too though not sure that would offer much advantage.

Haltech is one company that comes to mind as well as MSD. Blanking on the others at the moment. This route will likely not be the economical one.


Electromotive was the one I was trying to think of

Electromotive | Electronic Engine Control & Performance Accessories

Electromotive designs and manufactures high-quality electronic performance controllers and accessories for the serious performance and racing enthusiast. We sell our TEC line of engine management systems and XDi line of high-resolution ignition systems through our network of wholesalers, Value...

electromotive.com

 

[4Cruisers]

Would you have any information on the advance characteristics of the standard FJ60 advancer, like an advance curve that would be helpful. I found some info that said it had 18 degrees of advance total, all in. Any thoughts as to what might be optimum on a desmogged 2F?

Ask and you shall receive :

I just finished putting this together - I re-created a table found in my copy of Max Ellery's Land Cruiser Automobile Repair Manual (www.ellery.com.au). Hope this helps.

 

[NookShneer]

@4Cruisers

Hey Jon,

Have you looked at any of these units to compare to the curve your referencing?

Double vac port off a Corona
VC-393 029450-4631

Double vac port off a Toyota Pick-up
VC-327. 029450-7462

Double vac port off a Tercel
VC-367 029450-6001


triple vac port off a Tercel
VC-363
VC-373
VC-374

Double Vac port. May be able to be modified? Mazda/Ford unit
VC-407

 

[4Cruisers]

@4Cruisers

Hey Jon,

Have you looked at any of these units to compare to the curve your referencing?

Double vac port off a Corona
VC-393 029450-4631

Double vac port off a Toyota Pick-up
VC-327. 029450-7462

Double vac port off a Tercel
VC-367 029450-6001


triple vac port off a Tercel
VC-363
VC-373
VC-374

Double Vac port. May be able to be modified? Mazda/Ford unit
VC-407

Yep, been studying those this evening. I'll dig some more tomorrow.

 

[4Cruisers]

I may have stumbled on a suitable single diaphragm advancer (from my parts stash) for FJ60 applications where HAC isn't needed. Unfortunately I don't have any records that indicate what Toyota engine it's for. There aren't any markings on the advancer, and I'm pretty sure it's aftermarket. I'm following a lead to see if I can get more info. I'll provide an update if/when I learn more.

 

[Rockiemosley]

Ok, I am going to declare victory on the vacuum advance. I made this little bracket to hold a advance from a 1985 Ford Escort. I don’t have any exact advance numbers yet, but the truck runs great. It actually has a powerband. I also swapped in some stiffer advance springs. Runs like a bat outta hell! Made the clamp to hold the Ford advancer out of the seatpost clamp from an old Huffy bicycle I had laying around. Made the little tube that inserts into the distributor housing out of one of the seatstay tubes from the old Huffy. Set idle timing at 11 degrees.

 

[NookShneer]

Ok, I am going to declare victory on the vacuum advance. I made this little bracket to hold a advance from a 1985 Ford Escort. I don’t have any exact advance numbers yet, but the truck runs great. It actually has a powerband. I also swapped in some stiffer advance springs. Runs like a bat outta hell! Made the clamp to hold the Ford advancer out of the seatpost clamp from an old Huffy bicycle I had laying around. Made the little tube that inserts into the distributor housing out of one of the seatstay tubes from the old Huffy. Set idle timing at 11 degrees.

View attachment 2192347

View attachment 2192348

View attachment 2192349

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View attachment 2192351

Nice. Would be interesting to see how yours compares to the stock measurements.

You should refine it and sell them. There is a market for what you did, at least as it applies to 60’s.

 

[Rockiemosley]

Nice. Would be interesting to see how yours compares to the stock measurements.

You should refine it and sell them. There is a market for what you did, at least as it applies to 60’s.

Great idea. I will be playing with it and recording my advance numbers. If I can standardize the process and get the parts laser cut, I might have something to sell.

 

[NookShneer]

If you can keep the cost under a new distributor price you’ll be good.

 

[Rockiemosley]

Just an update for anybody following this. This has really woken up my FJ60. The truck has a power band that just pulls and pulls. I still havent had a chance to map the advance curve. I salute the rebuilder above opening the original advancer, but I seriously doubt that smearing silicone on a 35 year old rubber diaphram that has all the elasticity of a potato chip is going to do much. Nothing like a new advancer. I am looking into the possibility of producing this adapter for sale, and I will let folks know if I am able to do that.

 

[4Cruisers]

If I can find new NipponDenso advance/retard modules that 1) physically fit the Land Cruiser distributors and 2) have similar advance curves to Land Cruiser distributors, would there be any interest? All you'd have to do is cap the retard vacuum port. It wouldn't look as clean as a single diaphragm module, but would be entirely functional.

Similar to this one:

 

[NookShneer]

If I can find new NipponDenso advance/retard modules that 1) physically fit the Land Cruiser distributors and 2) have similar advance curves to Land Cruiser distributors, would there be any interest? All you'd have to do is cap the retard vacuum port. It wouldn't look as clean as a single diaphragm module, but would be entirely functional.

Similar to this one:

View attachment 2197032

I think that would be a great find.

 

[teamreno]

If I can find new NipponDenso advance/retard modules that 1) physically fit the Land Cruiser distributors and 2) have similar advance curves to Land Cruiser distributors, would there be any interest? All you'd have to do is cap the retard vacuum port. It wouldn't look as clean as a single diaphragm module, but would be entirely functional.

Similar to this one:

View attachment 2197032

I’d definitely be interested.

 

[Rockiemosley]

Just an update for anyone following my Ford vacuum advance adaptation above. My bracket held the Vacuum advance on the distributor just fine and moved the advancer plate just fine. But at this point the project is not working as hoped because of 2 things. One is the amount of movement that this particular vacuum advance gives is too much for the Landcruiser engine, over advancing the timing and giving spark knock. The other problem is that the vacuum advance kicks in and begins to move the timing at a lower vacuum level than the original stock advancer, initiating the advancing too early. Th Ford Escort advancer was designed for a 4 cylinder car with different advancer requirements. So when attempting to adapt something not only the problem of physically mounting an advancer, but the degree of movement the advancer provides, and the vacuum level with which advancing begins are all things to consider.

 

[4Cruisers]

I've got an update as well. Two of the promising Toyota non-Land Cruiser advancers I played around with yesterday only fit the F engine distributor body, not the 2F or 3F. I'll be looking at a different advancer this morning.

 

[WILLD420]

The aftermarket makes adjustable vacuum advance cans for many models. Many oem replacements are adjustable with an Allen wrench. If you look down the vacuum port and see an Allen head screw, it's adjustable. The reason many advance too fast is the egr systems require more advance when they dump exhaust gas into the engine. An egr advance can will ping on a desmogged engine.

 

[Rockiemosley]

The aftermarket makes adjustable vacuum advance cans for many models. Many oem replacements are adjustable with an Allen wrench. If you look down the vacuum port and see an Allen head screw, it's adjustable. The reason many advance too fast is the egr systems require more advance when they dump exhaust gas into the engine. An egr advance can will ping on a desmogged engine.

The aftermarket advancers that i have looked at that are adjustable- are adjustable in terms of stroke, or amount of advance. But are not adjustable in terms of amount of vacuum needed to actuate. This variable is dictated by the strength of diaphragm spring. This will vary on advancers made for other cars. Based on this I am working on rebuilding my stock advancer with new rubber diaphragm material rather than reinvent the advancer.

 

[4Cruisers]

I'm finding a few potential non-Land Cruiser Toyota advancers with curves similar to Land Cruiser distributors, and have already started to incorporate them into '68 and earlier F distributors, '77 2F distributors, and '81 and later 2F distributors. Now that the weather's warming up a bit I plan on temporarily install those modified distributors in my '76 FJ40 (original 2F with ~66,000 miles) to check them out.

 

[Rockiemosley]

I'm finding a few potential non-Land Cruiser Toyota advancers with curves similar to Land Cruiser distributors, and have already started to incorporate them into '68 and earlier F distributors, '77 2F distributors, and '81 and later 2F distributors. Now that the weather's warming up a bit I plan on temporarily install those modified distributors in my '76 FJ40 (original 2F with ~66,000 miles) to check them out.

I would love to know what advancers you are experimenting with and their part numbers if you feel like sharing that information. As I said above, not only physically mounting the advancer, but length of stroke, and amount of vacuum at onset are all things to consider.

 

[Rockiemosley]

I've got a few used advancers like the one in the above photo, all have good non-leaking diaphragms. I pulled them from the '68 and earlier F distributors in my stash. As I refurbish those older distributors, I'll replace the advancers with new single diaphragm advancers from later models. I'd be willing to sell those individually if my advancer replacement works out. That'll be my project for this afternoon.

Which single diaphragm advancers are you working with? Most of the later advancers that I am familiar with are dual diaphragm advancers.