Toyota Trails

[Green Hell Mustang]

Doubt it. We're all pretty thick skinned here. I'm sure we all appreciate the candor of your statement especially being that you're now their creative director. Wishing you and the magazine good luck with the future issues!

As creative director I'm sure you'll have a say in the direction and we'll have good representation. So from your perspective, if hypothetically speaking a well written Logans Run article was to be put together. 200 words or less, 1 picture, half page or so. Would that be published any time before September? Or are they at the point where we need to be thinking more like 12+ months away?

Thanks! I'll be pulling for the ONSC as much as I can with the Toyota Trails position.

For Logan's Run, since it's a premier East coast LC event now, I'd go as far as saying any article should be 1500 to 2100 words. It's an event that warrants multiple spreads. Logan's Run is target rich with respect to story material. I have photos to go with Logan's Run, and can call on a few others who shot photos as well. I'm thinking at least six or seven shots in a Logan's Run article. If someone wanted to write said article, the best time to submit it is now. Strike while the iron is hot. The content for the March/April 2017 TT issue has already been set, but Stan is most likely taking in articles for the May/June issue now. If a well worded article is sent to him for Logan's Run, I'd be willing to bet he'll use it. At least, that's my two cents.

 

[Roxx]

I dont see any problem with the magazine. The cover is beautiful, i bit dented but beautiful.

 

[weejub]

I would consider these articles "feature articles" not "news articles" and as such, they are not really time sensitive, and in my VAST experience as editor of my High School paper, student publisher of the KSU Collegian, and journalism graduate . . .why can't we just run the damn thing in the next issue?

 

[JohnVee]

For those that don’t know, I wrote the Relic Run 2016 article in question. @Green Hell Mustang provided the photos. I am also your current liaison between ONSC and TLCA (Toyota Trails is the magazine from TLCA). I’ve been holding off posting anything here today until I had completed my due diligence and made contact with a few folks.

I was recently told that there would be no Relic Run article after all because the photos that were to be used have been redirected to more prominent uses in the magazine. For that, I say congratulations to Alex for having such fine quality, desirable photos. Perhaps we’ll try for bigger and better at this years event. Maybe have more people take pics with cameras of higher resolution than that of their phone so there’s a larger pool to choose from. The rule will still be same - if you have a pic to be submitted for consideration do not publish (post) it elsewhere. That’s just the way the game is played.

Welcome to the world of print publishing. The fact is that limitations apply there that don’t exist in the instant online publishing that we’ve all gotten used to, and as long as Trails is a print magazine (and that is by far the preferred subscription option among TLCA members by 88% to 12% as of 01/2017) that’s the way it will be.

In this case a story was submitted with photos. It fit the direction of the magazine at the time. ‘Grand scheme of things’ changes were implemented and now it no longer fits. That’s my understanding of it. It isn’t a big deal and it happens all the time.

Either way, print or web, the editor is responsible for what is included and he bases that on the direction he intends to take the publication, which is a critical and complex situation for a bi-monthly magazine with a two month lead time.

I have been working with Trails to build relationships and maintain a presence for ONSC, and that includes trying to stay on top of this since the middle of last year; it just didn’t work out this time. All we can do is continue to give them what they want, the way they want it, and hope for the best. I encourage anyone to submit copy for inclusion in Trails. I will add to maybe run your intentions by myself or Alex so we can make sure to not have multiple people submitting the same thing.

I feel better after communicating with the editor throughout this afternoon and evening. He seems genuinely concerned regarding @David1947 ’s email. He has asked me to get the word out about submitting east coast content and has asked to please provide him with 2017 Relic Run material. I’d like to add that while we didn’t get 2016 RR into Trails, our event submission DID lead to Alex getting the Creative Director position. Alex didn’t know that they were looking, and somebody else was minutes away from being hired when I submitted our story and photos. Quote from the editor…”As bummed as I am to not have printed that story, it allowed me to find the perfect person to work with in terms of what I had envisioned for the new TT.”

 

[David70FJ40]

Terrific John. Maybe rocking the boat has helped a little. Meanwhile, making sure we, the membership, submit any articles to @JohnVee or @Green Hell Mustang first to ensure that there will be no duplication.

BTW Congratulations to @Green Hell Mustang on snagging a position he didn't know he was auditioning for. Proves that sometimes you just need to be in the right place at the right time.

 

[Rice]

because the photos that were to be used have been redirected to more prominent uses in the magazine.

John, can you explain what this means?

Thanks,
Rice

 

[JohnVee]

John, can you explain what this means?

Thanks,
Rice

Well, I'd love to... but I'd sure hate the fallout if it weren't to happen for some reason! Actually, the ball started rolling with Rafael this issue. We'll just have to hope it continues and appreciate the exposure it gives both Alex and ONSC.

 

[stevezero]

Hmmm, probably a special edition TLCA Men of the 70's calendar, complete with psychodellic backgrounds, and groovy sayings, like "Keep on Truckin", "Gimme some skin" and "Catch ya on the flip side"


They are just trying to figure out which phrase goes with which person

 

[NCFJ]

Be happy that you can submit photos in a digital form. When I was writing for magazines all photos had to be in the form of color slides. The other thing is you had to buy film as well and slide film, Kodachrome I think, was not cheap. I generally shot 4-5 rolls at an event hoping for 5-6 photos used in print.

 

[Green Hell Mustang]

John, can you explain what this means?

Thanks,
Rice

I can shed some light on this one...I think. He means that the photos will get used outside of a typical article. That means they could get used on the cover, the ToC page, Trail Views, or Trails End pages. Those are the slots where the magazine can choose what photos it wants outside of the photo material it gets for an article. For example, a Relic Run shot (@Roxx's FJ62 in this case) has been used for the cover of the Jan/Feb issue. Stan has selected several Relic Run shots for use, so I'm still hoping to use more shots in the upcoming issues. I'll know more as I start with each issue.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Before I type this response, I'd like to point out that Alex @Green Hell Mustang and John @JohnVee have done an enormous amount of extremely high quality work towards the goal of having ONSC represented in Toyota Trails.

It seems as though there is a lot of undue anger being tossed at the Toyota Trails' editor, there are two sides to every story. From what I understand there had been precious few articles published in Toyota Trails (about the East Coast clubs and events) prior to Stan coming aboard Toyota Trails. This is something he has been trying to change. On top of that, Stan has had a rough year and a half since he came on as editor. Add being the editor for OutdoorX4 on top of his literal crippling spinal injury and a few things might slip through the cracks. While I think it stinks that we never got the Relic Run article published, I don’t think it’s the end of the world. With that said, I don’t think we should stop trying for press coverage.

First of all, we all have it tough. All of us are dealing with our issues without using them as excuses, so I'm going to dismiss Stan's plight, not because I'm not empathetic, but because it's not relevant here.

What's hard to swallow is that when David reached out to ask about why ONSC doesn't see more print time, Stan responded with "well I can't print what I don't have". I interpreted that as a slap in the face. Who's to say that if we go through the effort of writing articles specifically for TT, then hold back on promotional materials for almost a YEAR to allow them to publish, that we won't be ultimately rejected again.

ONSC has seen more print time in Four Wheeler magazine than Toyota Trails for crying out loud (outside of John's updates). That's just messed up.



We'll continue submitting to TT, but if one or two more articles get turned down without explanation then I have a real hard time seeing us contributing any more.

 

[jdayment]

Before I type this response, I'd like to point out that Alex @Green Hell Mustang and John @JohnVee have done an enormous amount of extremely high quality work towards the goal of having ONSC represented in Toyota Trails.




First of all, we all have it tough. All of us are dealing with our issues without using them as excuses, so I'm going to dismiss Stan's plight, not because I'm not empathetic, but because it's not relevant here.

What's hard to swallow is that when David reached out to ask about why ONSC doesn't see more print time, Stan responded with "well I can't print what I don't have". I interpreted that as a slap in the face. Who's to say that if we go through the effort of writing articles specifically for TT, then hold back on promotional materials for almost a YEAR to allow them to publish, that we won't be ultimately rejected again.

ONSC has seen more print time in Four Wheeler magazine than Toyota Trails for crying out loud (outside of John's updates). That's just messed up.



We'll continue submitting to TT, but if one or two more articles get turned down without explanation then I have a real hard time seeing us contributing any more.

I know I am not a very active member of the club but I do pay dues to both ONSC and TLCA I agree with this we as an organization pay into TLCA both as a club and individually so I would expect a better answer than this. The response from Ross Woody was similar I dont feel it was very good. Is there a way to protest actions within TLCA without ostracizing ourselves from the organization based on the information provided in my view the club was wronged and potentially financially impacted by this. As well as potential loss of future members who might not of known of what the club does and can do.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I wouldn't get ahead of yourself @jdayment . Despite our minor gripes with TT, and they are minor gripes, the TLCA is still a great organization I want to continue to support. I hope that my post did not imply anything contrary to that point.

 

[JohnVee]

...The response from Woody was similar I dont feel it was very good...

Please note that the Woody in this statement is Ross Woody with TLCA, not Woody from IH8MUD.

 

[JToobe]

Please note that the Woody in this statement is Ross Woody with TLCA, not Woody from IH8MUD.

.....nor is it Woody from TOY STORY, just to clarify!

 

[David70FJ40]

What's hard to swallow is that when David reached out to ask about why ONSC doesn't see more print time, Stan responded with "well I can't print what I don't have". I interpreted that as a slap in the face. Who's to say that if we go through the effort of writing articles specifically for TT, then hold back on promotional materials for almost a YEAR to allow them to publish, that we won't be ultimately rejected again.

Terrific point Johnny and well said! As for myself, and I can only speak for myself, I am debating if I will renew my membership in TLCA when renewal time rolls around. Just my opinion and 2 cents worth.

 

[Rice]

Terrific point Johnny and well said! As for myself, and I can only speak for myself, I am debating if I will renew my membership in TLCA when renewal time rolls around. Just my opinion and 2 cents worth.

I've debated the same, but I have to be a "member in good standing" so one day I can win a dayum fridge!

 

[NCFJ]

I did not come across of a slight of any sort to me, but the part about having nothing submitted for print is a bit odd.

Three of the four magazines I wrote for were monthly publications. They generally worked on a three month (issue) time frame, so submissions had to be in three months in advance of any specific publishing date. The bi monthly mag was on a 4 month program.

I worked as a free lance writer and submitted articles on a regular basis. More than a few times, one magazine would turn down an article, I'd submit the same to another publication and they committed to print. I OWNED both photos and text until I had a signed contract. If they did not commit within a couple weeks I requested the material returned to me.

This is how any article submitted to the TLCA mag should be treated from the author/photographer's side. If they want exclusivity fine, make them sign for it. Letting them control photos and text for that long based solely on an editor's "word" is poor business on both sides.

 

[David70FJ40]

I've debated the same, but I have to be a "member in good standing" so one day I can win a dayum fridge!

Missed the fridge by one number.

 

[izzyandsue]

I did not come across of a slight of any sort to me, but the part about having nothing submitted for print is a bit odd.

Three of the four magazines I wrote for were monthly publications. They generally worked on a three month (issue) time frame, so submissions had to be in three months in advance of any specific publishing date. The bi monthly mag was on a 4 month program.

I worked as a free lance writer and submitted articles on a regular basis. More than a few times, one magazine would turn down an article, I'd submit the same to another publication and they committed to print. I OWNED both photos and text until I had a signed contract. If they did not commit within a couple weeks I requested the material returned to me.

This is how any article submitted to the TLCA mag should be treated from the author/photographer's side. If they want exclusivity fine, make them sign for it. Letting them control photos and text for that long based solely on an editor's "word" is poor business on both sides.

I think the slight comment was for Stan Wright on previous post. You were lucky that Larry always paid cash for your photos back in the day. Okay, back to my wall flower quiet self, sorry.