David70FJ40
Older Than Most
The magazine is here! On the cover, Rafael!
Toyota Trails (1 Viewer)
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David70FJ40
Older Than Most
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False alarm! No photos of the Relic Run. Even John V's column is way in the back.
From the few issues I have seen, most of their time is spent in the western portion of the country. There is very little content of the eastern US events.
From the few issues I have seen, most of their time is spent in the western portion of the country. There is very little content of the eastern US events.
Yes, long story, but I'm not sure that the relic run article will be published anymore. It's clear that Toyota Trails focuses on west coast and ignores the east coast almost entirely.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #4
I guess eastern US are the poor relatives that no one talks about.
That's unfortunate that we're left out.
Maybe it makes sense to put an ad in there for the Relic Run or for Logan's Run? Maybe put both in a small ad near the back? Fund it by slightly raising attendance fees for non members that want to attend.
Maybe it makes sense to put an ad in there for the Relic Run or for Logan's Run? Maybe put both in a small ad near the back? Fund it by slightly raising attendance fees for non members that want to attend.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #6
For anyone who has known me for any length of time, you will soon realize I am a shoot from the hip kind of a person. Ask Rice, he remembers me from the "old" days in the '70s from the Triad 4WD Club. I have never been much of one to hold back so here goes.
As I looked over the recent Toyota Trails, to say I was disappointed to see nothing about the Relic Run would be an understatement. All I saw was page after page of desolate, brown western scenery and 8 pages of "Rust Removal 101". So my ire was raised a little and I sent the editor of Toyota trails this email:
If a space alien landed on earth and looked over any copy of Toyota Trails, their logical conclusion would be the Land Cruisers were sold almost exclusively in the western US and that ownership in the eastern US has virtually zero interest. Personally, I am very weary of seeing the desolate landscapes from the western US and I wish you would include the poorer and less fortunate eastern US owners in the publication.
This time, like most of the others, the magazine is headed for the recycle bin after reading.
His reply was this:
Thank you for your email. Sadly, I agree with your assessment of Toyota Trails. Even more sad is the fact that I have no answer for you other than to continue encouraging our East Coast members to submit photos and stories from their local areas. I was born and raised in the Catskill Mountains of New York and have traveled extensively up and down the East Coast. The beauty of the mountains in NY, PA, Virginia, North/South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and West Virginia is unrivaled in my opinion.
The simple fact remains that I cannot publish what I do not have. I have asked many times for East Coast submissions from our members. Unfortunately, I usually get a story about someone traveling from an eastern state to Colorado or Utah. I encourage you to lead the way and submit an article about your local area.
I know there are plenty of trails near the water in North Carolina and Florida and I know we have members in those areas, but I cannot put pen to paper for them. I cannot press the shutter on their camera. I can only encourage them to submit photos and stories and hope for the best. Same goes for the phenomenal areas in the Northeast.
If you have a suggestion, I'm all ears. If you'd be willing to submit a story with photos, that would be a huge step in the right direction and maybe others would follow your lead. Nothing draws a crowd like a crowd.
Not that it changes much since your issue has already been recycled, but the cover image of the Jan/Feb issue was taken in North Carolina. Unfortunately there is no story to accompany that photo but I can assure you that I'm trying my best to remedy that.
I hope that you'll lead the way and send a story with quality photos. I also hope that your submission will spark the interest of other members in your area to do the same. The only way to effect change is to lead the way. Instead of recycling your copy of Trails, maybe you could pass it on to another Toyota owner in your area and spread the word? They may become a TLCA member and may be the next member to submit an article about all the great adventures that can be found in the East.
Thanks again for taking the time to send your feedback. I only wish that I had a better answer for you.
Happy Trails,
I can understand his response, a little. So here is my suggestion; each and every time we have an event, relic run, meet and greet, logans run, individual trail rides, beach trips, monthly area meeting, Christmas party, HAMOM, club sponsored event or not, be sure to take TONS of photos and deluge the editor with articles and photos so he can't have to opportunity to say he can't publish what he doesn't have. Personally, I am quite proud of this group, the level of knowledge, cooperation and participation is terrific and I look forward to the interaction within the group. To have us not represented with what was a one-of-a-kind event like the relic run saddens me and we need to do what we can to change the representation.
I apologize for shooting off my mouth but we need to get together and show those "out west" people what we have!
As I looked over the recent Toyota Trails, to say I was disappointed to see nothing about the Relic Run would be an understatement. All I saw was page after page of desolate, brown western scenery and 8 pages of "Rust Removal 101". So my ire was raised a little and I sent the editor of Toyota trails this email:
If a space alien landed on earth and looked over any copy of Toyota Trails, their logical conclusion would be the Land Cruisers were sold almost exclusively in the western US and that ownership in the eastern US has virtually zero interest. Personally, I am very weary of seeing the desolate landscapes from the western US and I wish you would include the poorer and less fortunate eastern US owners in the publication.
This time, like most of the others, the magazine is headed for the recycle bin after reading.
His reply was this:
Thank you for your email. Sadly, I agree with your assessment of Toyota Trails. Even more sad is the fact that I have no answer for you other than to continue encouraging our East Coast members to submit photos and stories from their local areas. I was born and raised in the Catskill Mountains of New York and have traveled extensively up and down the East Coast. The beauty of the mountains in NY, PA, Virginia, North/South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and West Virginia is unrivaled in my opinion.
The simple fact remains that I cannot publish what I do not have. I have asked many times for East Coast submissions from our members. Unfortunately, I usually get a story about someone traveling from an eastern state to Colorado or Utah. I encourage you to lead the way and submit an article about your local area.
I know there are plenty of trails near the water in North Carolina and Florida and I know we have members in those areas, but I cannot put pen to paper for them. I cannot press the shutter on their camera. I can only encourage them to submit photos and stories and hope for the best. Same goes for the phenomenal areas in the Northeast.
If you have a suggestion, I'm all ears. If you'd be willing to submit a story with photos, that would be a huge step in the right direction and maybe others would follow your lead. Nothing draws a crowd like a crowd.
Not that it changes much since your issue has already been recycled, but the cover image of the Jan/Feb issue was taken in North Carolina. Unfortunately there is no story to accompany that photo but I can assure you that I'm trying my best to remedy that.
I hope that you'll lead the way and send a story with quality photos. I also hope that your submission will spark the interest of other members in your area to do the same. The only way to effect change is to lead the way. Instead of recycling your copy of Trails, maybe you could pass it on to another Toyota owner in your area and spread the word? They may become a TLCA member and may be the next member to submit an article about all the great adventures that can be found in the East.
Thanks again for taking the time to send your feedback. I only wish that I had a better answer for you.
Happy Trails,
I can understand his response, a little. So here is my suggestion; each and every time we have an event, relic run, meet and greet, logans run, individual trail rides, beach trips, monthly area meeting, Christmas party, HAMOM, club sponsored event or not, be sure to take TONS of photos and deluge the editor with articles and photos so he can't have to opportunity to say he can't publish what he doesn't have. Personally, I am quite proud of this group, the level of knowledge, cooperation and participation is terrific and I look forward to the interaction within the group. To have us not represented with what was a one-of-a-kind event like the relic run saddens me and we need to do what we can to change the representation.
I apologize for shooting off my mouth but we need to get together and show those "out west" people what we have!
David, go ahead and reply to him, but ask specifically about the Relic Run article that we submitted months ago.
NCFJ
Supporting Vendor
I was under the impression that an article had been assured and that was the reason photos were never released. I've written for several magazines in the past and the only time I was asked to not publish any photos anywhere else was when an article was guaranteed.
David @David1947 , before responding, find out who the club was dealing with regarding the article being published.
David @David1947 , before responding, find out who the club was dealing with regarding the article being published.
The editor is the guy david is talking to. His name is stan wright.
So is the editor the one who assured there would be an article published in TLCA about the Relic Run I remember seeing a thread a couple months ago asking for pics but it was mentioned that no pics would be released due to a pending article in TLCA?
Yes. @JohnVee and @Green Hell Mustang can speak to this a bit more, but you've more or less summarized the whole story.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #12
My opinion, and I promise to stop running off at the mouth; publish the Relic Run photos and let the chips fall where they may. Doesn't appear they will see the light of day in "Trails".
All this is why I made the statement in the Relic Run post last week to the effect of, "Screw TT. We don't need them to have fun." We are clearly redheaded stepchildren (no offense, Jim) of the TLCA and the fact that we submit articles and they don't get posted is proof of that. Not to mention that JohnVee's Chapter Spotlight submissions have been the ONLY ONES PUBLISHED FOR ANY TLCA CHAPTER in over a year of TT issues. Kudos to JohnVee on his well written Chapter Spotlights and to our club for being just plain awesome.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #14
My last on this subject. Promise.
Sent this to Ross Woody, TLCA President.
I was expecting to see the ONSC “Relic Run” article in the Nov/Dec issue but we were told it had to be delayed to the Jan/Feb issue. So the latest issue arrived today and guess what, no “Relic Run” but there was a wonderful (?) 5 page spread on rust removal 101. Those rust fighting threads have been done to death on IH8MUD.com and was a total waste of space in the current issue.
I sent this email to Stan Wright;
“If a space alien landed on earth and looked over any copy of Toyota Trails, their logical conclusion would be the Land Cruisers were sold almost exclusively in the western US and that ownership in the eastern US has virtually zero interest. Personally, I am very weary of seeing the desolate landscapes from the western US and I wish you would include the poorer and less fortunate eastern US owners in the publication.”
“This time, like most of the others, the magazine is headed for the recycle bin after reading.”
I am sick of seeing those desolate and lonely western US photos and landscapes, there is much more to this grand country. You almost entirely avoid the eastern part of the country so much I would suggest a better name for the publication would be “Western Trails”. Since most of the BOD is western based, I can understand the bias to a point, but not that much. You, and the entire BOD, need to examine the editorial content of the publication to better represent the other parts of the country and maybe the BOD needs representation for the country as a whole and not just from the west.
BTW I was a Land Cruiser owner long before the TLCA was formed. My first was a used ’71 model I purchased in ’72 and had job circumstances not changed I would still have it today.
Here is his reply:
First, thanks for the email. I don't know if the snub was intentional or not, but I will talk to Nick Stone and Stan to find out what caused the article to be dropped.
I don't think it's intentional to be Western US influenced, and I know we do feature events from other parts of the US, notably Texas (Round Up), Louisiana (MardiKrawl) and Arkansas (Crawl).
Ultimately, the Board has always left content selection to the Toyota Trails Editor (in this case, Stan), but we do provide feedback on the direction of the mag. For the most part, Stan runs what he receives from clubs, which is why I'm surprised your article wasn't included.
As for the ratio of Western articles to the rest of the Country, by my count, there are 7 clubs on the East Coast: 1 each in Georgia, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and 2 in Virginia. The South has 9: 1 each in Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri and 2 each in Louisiana & Tennessee. So, 16 in the East and South. For Western States, the Midwest has 6: 1 each in Iowa, Oklahoma, South Dakota and 3 in Texas, and 14 more in the rest of the west: 7 clubs in California, 4 in Colorado, 1 each in New Mexico, Oregon and Utah. There are more in each region that aren't currently active (or have filed their paperwork, but we seem to be roughly 60/40 between West and East.
Personally, I think the member's interests have shifted from TLCA events to "overlanding" and small group travel. The wide open spaces of the West seem to be where more of our members are traveling. Or, that's where the content is being generated.
Like I mentioned, I'll meet with Nick and Stan to review your concerns about content as well as finding out why the article was dropped.
Thank you for contacting me
I'll stop picking at this scab now.
Sent this to Ross Woody, TLCA President.
I was expecting to see the ONSC “Relic Run” article in the Nov/Dec issue but we were told it had to be delayed to the Jan/Feb issue. So the latest issue arrived today and guess what, no “Relic Run” but there was a wonderful (?) 5 page spread on rust removal 101. Those rust fighting threads have been done to death on IH8MUD.com and was a total waste of space in the current issue.
I sent this email to Stan Wright;
“If a space alien landed on earth and looked over any copy of Toyota Trails, their logical conclusion would be the Land Cruisers were sold almost exclusively in the western US and that ownership in the eastern US has virtually zero interest. Personally, I am very weary of seeing the desolate landscapes from the western US and I wish you would include the poorer and less fortunate eastern US owners in the publication.”
“This time, like most of the others, the magazine is headed for the recycle bin after reading.”
I am sick of seeing those desolate and lonely western US photos and landscapes, there is much more to this grand country. You almost entirely avoid the eastern part of the country so much I would suggest a better name for the publication would be “Western Trails”. Since most of the BOD is western based, I can understand the bias to a point, but not that much. You, and the entire BOD, need to examine the editorial content of the publication to better represent the other parts of the country and maybe the BOD needs representation for the country as a whole and not just from the west.
BTW I was a Land Cruiser owner long before the TLCA was formed. My first was a used ’71 model I purchased in ’72 and had job circumstances not changed I would still have it today.
Here is his reply:
First, thanks for the email. I don't know if the snub was intentional or not, but I will talk to Nick Stone and Stan to find out what caused the article to be dropped.
I don't think it's intentional to be Western US influenced, and I know we do feature events from other parts of the US, notably Texas (Round Up), Louisiana (MardiKrawl) and Arkansas (Crawl).
Ultimately, the Board has always left content selection to the Toyota Trails Editor (in this case, Stan), but we do provide feedback on the direction of the mag. For the most part, Stan runs what he receives from clubs, which is why I'm surprised your article wasn't included.
As for the ratio of Western articles to the rest of the Country, by my count, there are 7 clubs on the East Coast: 1 each in Georgia, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and 2 in Virginia. The South has 9: 1 each in Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri and 2 each in Louisiana & Tennessee. So, 16 in the East and South. For Western States, the Midwest has 6: 1 each in Iowa, Oklahoma, South Dakota and 3 in Texas, and 14 more in the rest of the west: 7 clubs in California, 4 in Colorado, 1 each in New Mexico, Oregon and Utah. There are more in each region that aren't currently active (or have filed their paperwork, but we seem to be roughly 60/40 between West and East.
Personally, I think the member's interests have shifted from TLCA events to "overlanding" and small group travel. The wide open spaces of the West seem to be where more of our members are traveling. Or, that's where the content is being generated.
Like I mentioned, I'll meet with Nick and Stan to review your concerns about content as well as finding out why the article was dropped.
Thank you for contacting me
I'll stop picking at this scab now.
RedHeadedStepChild
Proudly wearing my MC1R mutation!
Green Hell Mustang
Designer, Hack Photographer
I wasn’t planning on commenting on this thread, but after a few posts in, I realized I probably should. I’m going to post this even if it risks bringing the ire of my good friends and fellow cruiserheads. I should preface this by saying that I am the new creative director at Toyota Trails and the photographer for the Relic Run - both this year and last year.
In regards to the Relic Run article, @JohnVee and I were under the impression that his story and my photos were going to be published in the Jan/Feb 2017 issue of Toyota Trails. So we passed that information on to everyone else. For one reason or another the article was dropped. I honestly don’t know why it was. It could be that Stan Wright (Toyota Trails’ editor) realized he had other article obligations prior to the Relic Run that he’d forgotten about, there could have been a miscommunication somewhere regarding the scope of the article, maybe my photos didn’t work for the story, I really don’t know. I, however, don’t think that Toyota Trails’ editor, or the TLCA, are trying to snub anything being published about East coast events. Stan is still somewhat new to Toyota Trails and has been trying to give all the clubs more coverage than they had before.
It seems as though there is a lot of undue anger being tossed at the Toyota Trails' editor, there are two sides to every story. From what I understand there had been precious few articles published in Toyota Trails (about the East Coast clubs and events) prior to Stan coming aboard Toyota Trails. This is something he has been trying to change. On top of that, Stan has had a rough year and a half since he came on as editor. Add being the editor for OutdoorX4 on top of his literal crippling spinal injury and a few things might slip through the cracks. While I think it stinks that we never got the Relic Run article published, I don’t think it’s the end of the world. With that said, I don’t think we should stop trying for press coverage.
Yes, we should keep writing, keep the camera shutter clicking, and keep awareness about club events going. We’ve got plenty of people that love the Land Cruiser brand enough to write articles or contribute content about them, even for Toyota Trails. I like @David1947's recommendation, we should definitely write, photograph, and shoot video of all our events extensively this coming year. We can create better coverage of our events, with or without Toyota Trails.
I will end with letting everyone know that the 2016 Relic Run photos are now going to be used for promotion of this year’s upcoming Relic Run. I will most likely post the photos of the 2016 Relic Run to ‘Mud soon. They’ll be used on FB and Instagram too, so be on the lookout there too. Lastly, there are possibly a few more Relic Run photos that will be published in the upcoming Toyota Trails issues going into summer. I’ll know more about that later.
I’m sure my response has ruffled a few feathers, my apologies for that. Please address hate mail to me, @GreenHellMustang.
In regards to the Relic Run article, @JohnVee and I were under the impression that his story and my photos were going to be published in the Jan/Feb 2017 issue of Toyota Trails. So we passed that information on to everyone else. For one reason or another the article was dropped. I honestly don’t know why it was. It could be that Stan Wright (Toyota Trails’ editor) realized he had other article obligations prior to the Relic Run that he’d forgotten about, there could have been a miscommunication somewhere regarding the scope of the article, maybe my photos didn’t work for the story, I really don’t know. I, however, don’t think that Toyota Trails’ editor, or the TLCA, are trying to snub anything being published about East coast events. Stan is still somewhat new to Toyota Trails and has been trying to give all the clubs more coverage than they had before.
It seems as though there is a lot of undue anger being tossed at the Toyota Trails' editor, there are two sides to every story. From what I understand there had been precious few articles published in Toyota Trails (about the East Coast clubs and events) prior to Stan coming aboard Toyota Trails. This is something he has been trying to change. On top of that, Stan has had a rough year and a half since he came on as editor. Add being the editor for OutdoorX4 on top of his literal crippling spinal injury and a few things might slip through the cracks. While I think it stinks that we never got the Relic Run article published, I don’t think it’s the end of the world. With that said, I don’t think we should stop trying for press coverage.
Yes, we should keep writing, keep the camera shutter clicking, and keep awareness about club events going. We’ve got plenty of people that love the Land Cruiser brand enough to write articles or contribute content about them, even for Toyota Trails. I like @David1947's recommendation, we should definitely write, photograph, and shoot video of all our events extensively this coming year. We can create better coverage of our events, with or without Toyota Trails.
I will end with letting everyone know that the 2016 Relic Run photos are now going to be used for promotion of this year’s upcoming Relic Run. I will most likely post the photos of the 2016 Relic Run to ‘Mud soon. They’ll be used on FB and Instagram too, so be on the lookout there too. Lastly, there are possibly a few more Relic Run photos that will be published in the upcoming Toyota Trails issues going into summer. I’ll know more about that later.
I’m sure my response has ruffled a few feathers, my apologies for that. Please address hate mail to me, @GreenHellMustang.
Doubt it. We're all pretty thick skinned here. I'm sure we all appreciate the candor of your statement especially being that you're now their creative director. Wishing you and the magazine good luck with the future issues!
As creative director I'm sure you'll have a say in the direction and we'll have good representation. So from your perspective, if hypothetically speaking a well written Logans Run article was to be put together. 200 words or less, 1 picture, half page or so. Would that be published any time before September? Or are they at the point where we need to be thinking more like 12+ months away?
lt1fire
SILVER Star
no just kidding
Your response is well balanced I don't think TT has ever actively tried to snub one club or one coast over the other. If you look at any 4x4 magazine you will see most articles are from CO west... that just has to do with the amount of trails out there vs the east coast I don't think 4wheeler, outdoor4x, Off Road, toyota 4wd owner or overland journal would actual snub anyone on purpose.
That said it does suck our article didn't get published but I highly doubt there was any malice behind that and more to do with reasons you have given for possible answers.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #20
@Green Hell Mustang Well written response. I applaud your candor and thank you for a good explanation.
I hope there wasn't any malice from TT about the Relic Run photos and articles and I wouldn't expect there to be any. I do know how much work has been put into these trucks and the amount of pride that the owners show. Just ask one a question and then expect a full detailed, blow-by-blow report on what was done, why and how. The pride shows. And I know that those who participated were looking forward to seeing their trucks, a real LC and not one that has been cut down and butchered into something only barely recognizable as a LC, show up in a national magazine.
Thanks again for taking the time to write the back story and explanation.
I hope there wasn't any malice from TT about the Relic Run photos and articles and I wouldn't expect there to be any. I do know how much work has been put into these trucks and the amount of pride that the owners show. Just ask one a question and then expect a full detailed, blow-by-blow report on what was done, why and how. The pride shows. And I know that those who participated were looking forward to seeing their trucks, a real LC and not one that has been cut down and butchered into something only barely recognizable as a LC, show up in a national magazine.
Thanks again for taking the time to write the back story and explanation.
