fooldall1
Handy Enthusiast
I was just going to get the grease gun, hit the zerks and be done (based on the FSM description)... but maybe now I'll need some mechanic buddies to help me out. I'd hate to kill something.
Too Much Grease in Drive Shaft?
- Thread starter calskibum
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Grease isn't going to hurt anything, only make it better. Just hit the zerks and forget about it.
Just trying to state that this isn't a topic to be stressing over. People have been putting grease zerks on u joints and driveshafts for practically the existence of the automobile. If it was meant to be hard to service, there would be some other method of lubrication. But Toyota placed the zerks there in the anticipation that some Toyota mechanic (who actually payed attention to servicing them) would shoot them with a couple squirts until they were full. No reason to overthink.Thanks & RE: wasting time everyone needs a hobby right? The majority of my time has been combing through the forums & just learning the platform. I've had a similar session focused on AHC...
fooldall1
Handy Enthusiast
I see your point. Then, what's all this talk about possibly destroying the drive line with an air pocket?
Well with almost everyone on this forum greasing their shafts & spiders, not one case of this has been reported. I haven't heard of this on any vehicle. And its really common sense. The shafts have a grease seal on the slip yoke, some said that the seal was strong enough to hold air when grease was not in the shaft, basically acting as an air shock. But this was never tested under actual conditions or load. In simple physics, when a machine is put into stress, more stress is applied until a part breaks or gives. The "weakest link" so to speak. So now look at all the components that would be holding the pressure in the shaft: the zerk and the seal. Its only logic to me that the seal will give before any real pressure is achieved, and especially before any real force is put on the transfer case/rear diff. Plus any force that is applied to the input/output has already been accounted for by toyota engineers.
So, last week I had the u joints for the rear drive shaft replaced w/ Matsuba parts from Cruiser Outfitters. They were mostly "dry" even though I put grease in them every few thousand miles for years. Is it possible to put too much grease in? Don't know. But in my experience it still wasn't enough. (They didn't fail, but there was play in the drive shaft so decided to replace them.)
fooldall1
Handy Enthusiast
So you're of the opinion that I need to pump grease at each of the grease Zerks until I see grease pass the seals?
I have seen several issues caused by overfilling the slip joint in the drive shaft!
Not just on the 100 but several different vehicles. I personally had my output shaft bearing go out due to a over greased slip. It happened within about a 4000 mile period, the drive shaft still had pressure on it when I tried to remove it so much so that I could not get the slip to compress without removing the zerk.
The best and easiest way to go about greasing the slip joint is to grease it until you see the slip joint expand, then remove the zerk and bounce up and down on the back of the vehicle. This will release the pressure and extra grease. It a pretty easy step to take to ensure you don't damage the bearings.
The ujoints can not be over greased but the slip joint absolutely can.
Not just on the 100 but several different vehicles. I personally had my output shaft bearing go out due to a over greased slip. It happened within about a 4000 mile period, the drive shaft still had pressure on it when I tried to remove it so much so that I could not get the slip to compress without removing the zerk.
The best and easiest way to go about greasing the slip joint is to grease it until you see the slip joint expand, then remove the zerk and bounce up and down on the back of the vehicle. This will release the pressure and extra grease. It a pretty easy step to take to ensure you don't damage the bearings.
The ujoints can not be over greased but the slip joint absolutely can.
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I stand corrected then. I guess I've just been lucky on the vehicles I've serviced. Still not a concern to me, and if it becomes one someday, well I'll learn from my mistake.
I've serviced several vehicles of almost every make and never had an issue with over greasing the slip joint.
It really shouldn't be an issue if the drive shaft is clean and the seal is not stopped up, but it is common for the seals to get gummed up and they do not allow the pressure to release.
Ultimately it's best to remove the slip joint and clean it real good
Then re grease with moly grease if you notice the drive shaft expand when greasing.
If one decides to do this make sure the splines go back the way they came apart!
At best the seals will allow the grease and pressure to escape,
At worst you blow out a output shaft or pinion bearing.
Any constant pressure on either bearing is not good.
Moly = molybdenum. Moly fortified grease was recommended to combat stiction, which many believed causes the thunk/clunk issue. The spline/teeth of the propeller shaft have micro grooves on each, it kind of looks like a fine tooth hack saw blade. Any grease seem to adequately stop the stiction of these teeth with there contact of/in the sleeve yoke.
The issue of building to much pressers in sleeve yoke cavity is caused be seal design, IMHO. I suppose it's possible that moly creates openings between the particles of moly under lip of seal on a micro scale, but in my case it didn't seem to help grease pass the seal.
It's my understanding Toyota redesigned the propeller shaft to correct the two issue, but I've not verified this.
This is really strange:
Re: Orientation of rear propeller shaft on the 100 series.
I've only now learned Toyota & Lexus have mounted rear propeller shaft with sleeve yoke nearest differential in some cases like on my 01 LC and as illustrated in it's FSM. Other years I see in the rear propeller shaft sleeve yoke nearest the transfer case like on my 07 LC.
In the various PDF FSMs I'm looking at, orientation seem to vary depending on which section of FSM or year or model.
As for front propeller shaft; all my PDF FSMs, all sections, show orientated with sleeve yoke nearest front differential.
I'd say it is best to mark propeller shaft as recommended in FSM, and not changes it's orientation as found on the 100 series being worked on.
The issue of building to much pressers in sleeve yoke cavity is caused be seal design, IMHO. I suppose it's possible that moly creates openings between the particles of moly under lip of seal on a micro scale, but in my case it didn't seem to help grease pass the seal.
It's my understanding Toyota redesigned the propeller shaft to correct the two issue, but I've not verified this.
This is really strange:
Re: Orientation of rear propeller shaft on the 100 series.
I've only now learned Toyota & Lexus have mounted rear propeller shaft with sleeve yoke nearest differential in some cases like on my 01 LC and as illustrated in it's FSM. Other years I see in the rear propeller shaft sleeve yoke nearest the transfer case like on my 07 LC.
In the various PDF FSMs I'm looking at, orientation seem to vary depending on which section of FSM or year or model.
As for front propeller shaft; all my PDF FSMs, all sections, show orientated with sleeve yoke nearest front differential.
I'd say it is best to mark propeller shaft as recommended in FSM, and not changes it's orientation as found on the 100 series being worked on.
In my case, I've been noticing a slight "growl" during acceleration in the 1200-1600 RPM range. It is accompanied by some vibration up through the floor by my feet, but nothing through the steering wheel. Sometimes there is also a cyclical wub-wub-wub noise at higher cruising speeds, but I don't believe this is from the tires.
I've got all new wheel bearings, new-remanned CV joints, and all the diff/t-case fluids are new. I have been greasing the u-joints and yokes a few times now. U-joints get plenty of grease through, but very little old grease came out the first time so I feel like they were mostly dry for a long time--this is why I think they need replacement. The slip yokes take grease, but not very much makes it past the seal, and the yoke extends pretty far. When it doesn't go past the seal, it will actually come out the end of the yoke, in the area where the u-joint is. Is this normal or is that happening because a seal broke? Anyway, when that happens I take out the zirk and drive around the block to relieve the excess pressure.
All this, and I still do have a little bit of the clunk when shifting between R-N-D. Greasing has helped some but I believe I should try to take off the drive shaft and actually clean it out.
I am looking at the FSM and it says to remove the drive shaft, then the sleeve yoke should be able to just pull out from the shaft. What I can't tell is does this give enough access to clean everything? Will there be any seals/non-reusable parts that need replacing or can I just push the sleeve yoke back on? It does say that to remove the dust cover you have to "cut the dust cover spirally at the pressing-in part with a saw and pry it off with a chisel and hammer." so that seems destructive...
I've got all new wheel bearings, new-remanned CV joints, and all the diff/t-case fluids are new. I have been greasing the u-joints and yokes a few times now. U-joints get plenty of grease through, but very little old grease came out the first time so I feel like they were mostly dry for a long time--this is why I think they need replacement. The slip yokes take grease, but not very much makes it past the seal, and the yoke extends pretty far. When it doesn't go past the seal, it will actually come out the end of the yoke, in the area where the u-joint is. Is this normal or is that happening because a seal broke? Anyway, when that happens I take out the zirk and drive around the block to relieve the excess pressure.
All this, and I still do have a little bit of the clunk when shifting between R-N-D. Greasing has helped some but I believe I should try to take off the drive shaft and actually clean it out.
I am looking at the FSM and it says to remove the drive shaft, then the sleeve yoke should be able to just pull out from the shaft. What I can't tell is does this give enough access to clean everything? Will there be any seals/non-reusable parts that need replacing or can I just push the sleeve yoke back on? It does say that to remove the dust cover you have to "cut the dust cover spirally at the pressing-in part with a saw and pry it off with a chisel and hammer." so that seems destructive...
The way i do mine is one or two pumps after seeing the initial grease seapage. No clunks until my next oil change, like clockwork (7500 miles). I'm actually starting to feel mine thud and i'm 500 miles away from my next oil change, so it's been my oil change reminder of sorts. Lincoln Hand pump and some valvoline from oreilley with moly does the trick.
I've been using Mobil 1 multipurpose...but it sounds like moly provides better results for lots of people. I could switch, but without all my grease flowing past the seals I wonder if I should pull the shafts and clean everything out first.
My experience with spider joints (AKA U-joints), they give that wow-wow-wow when going dry. Once dry for to long they'll go bad, bearings will burn up and will get noticeably loose at one or all of the bearing caps. Bad spiders just get worst. What I've experienced is the vibration get worst as speed increases (propeller shaft spines faster) when spider(s) are bad.
New front drive shafts along with new axle hub flanges will do the most to eliminate N to D & N to R clunk. But even with new, some clunk should be expected with age. Keep in mind there is a lot components from crank shaft to wheels in which slack must be taken up. (note: rebuilt front drive shafts have used axle (worn axle teeth) and some play is to be expected)
The rear propeller shaft slip yoke thunk, is mostly associated with letting off the gas then giving it gas "thunk", come to a rolling almost stop then giving gas "thunk", or speed bump braking then gas "thunk". I just had one giving a mild "thunk" so I pump in a little #1 grease with moly. #1, it's thinner so flows easier than #2. It helped which indicates stictGoogleion was the issue.
As for grease coming out the plate in back. Well that is a good bad story. Good, as it relieves pressure which normally eliminates the "thunk". Lexus mechanics were drilling small holes in that back plate just for that reason. Bad, it can make greasing the slip yoke difficult, as in my case the grease comes out backing plate to easily. One day I need to tighten that back plate, but I've said that for many-many years, without any thunk!
I did take my propeller shafts off and cleaned once, I doubt you need too. While on the bench I pumped in grease with a hand held grease gun. This put and incredible amount of pressure in it. That is when my back plate warped, seal never did let grease pass. No doubt you can pull the yoke from the sleeve while one spider end attack. If you do, Just make sure to mark each parts and there orientation to differential & transfer case. The only seal is on the end you see. I didn't replace my seal, it's part of the sleeve dust cover. No parts need be replaced, unless you want a new seal. The dust cover is pressed on and need not be removed, all doing so would make cleaning easier. Dust cover is not reusable if removed (per FSM).
Thanks for the reply! I remember I took a photo of the grease--looked like it was coming out a circular perimeter instead of a hole. Interesting.
I got under the vehicle tonight and tried to wiggle the drive shafts at the u-joints. No movement, but I feel they could still be bad. If they were almost dry for years, the needles could have galled up and then the joint could be toast. With fresh grease packed in there I guess it could appear solid on inspection, but have problems when actually spinning.
There is no clunk when letting off gas, or putting it back on--though I did test drive one with that problem. Good news there for me.
I think that at 212k miles, the u-joints would benefit from replacement. I have read that people will test by removing only one shaft and driving around. But sometimes in that case it got quiet but that shaft was actually the problem!
Probably will go with Matsuba u-joints from Cruiser Outfitters. Good balance of quality and price.
I got under the vehicle tonight and tried to wiggle the drive shafts at the u-joints. No movement, but I feel they could still be bad. If they were almost dry for years, the needles could have galled up and then the joint could be toast. With fresh grease packed in there I guess it could appear solid on inspection, but have problems when actually spinning.
There is no clunk when letting off gas, or putting it back on--though I did test drive one with that problem. Good news there for me.
I think that at 212k miles, the u-joints would benefit from replacement. I have read that people will test by removing only one shaft and driving around. But sometimes in that case it got quiet but that shaft was actually the problem!
Probably will go with Matsuba u-joints from Cruiser Outfitters. Good balance of quality and price.
I've seen spiders run so dry that barely a drop of old grease came out. They gave that wow-wow-wow at high speed with transmission in N. Lube them up and they were fine.
Take about vibration, felt like the wheel would fall off at 30MPH.
I took shaft to a machine shop to have spider pressed.
Take about vibration, felt like the wheel would fall off at 30MPH.
I took shaft to a machine shop to have spider pressed.
When installing new ujoints also get your propshaft (PS) balanced and trued. Choose a driveline shop that has a high speed balancer that can spin your PS up to 3300-3500 rpm. Some shops cannot or do not spin them that high and miss balancing issues(vibes) that show up at 65+mph.
Re Grease: Drivline shop should grease splines and spiders as part of the balance service. I pulled my PS apart to check, and took the added step to re-coat the splines with 60% moly which will stay on the splines for a long time. I think less grease is better and too much grease inside the PS is not a good thing. I've tried adding grease as described and never had it pass the seals. As grease drys and clumps, I suspect it can cause balance issues.
For PS I subscribe to a couple of pumps every 5k as sufficient for normal street use. Removing/separating, cleaning excess, greasing splines and cleaning the seal lip periodically would be a best practice. As suggested match mark the two halves before you separate so you get the correct phasing when you re-install. For Ujoints, you cannot overgrease these (other than just wasting grease): too much grease simply oozes out and coats your under carriage with slung grease.
As a point of reference, properly maintained original Ujoints on an unlifted 100 should last past 200k miles.
Re Grease: Drivline shop should grease splines and spiders as part of the balance service. I pulled my PS apart to check, and took the added step to re-coat the splines with 60% moly which will stay on the splines for a long time. I think less grease is better and too much grease inside the PS is not a good thing. I've tried adding grease as described and never had it pass the seals. As grease drys and clumps, I suspect it can cause balance issues.
For PS I subscribe to a couple of pumps every 5k as sufficient for normal street use. Removing/separating, cleaning excess, greasing splines and cleaning the seal lip periodically would be a best practice. As suggested match mark the two halves before you separate so you get the correct phasing when you re-install. For Ujoints, you cannot overgrease these (other than just wasting grease): too much grease simply oozes out and coats your under carriage with slung grease.
As a point of reference, properly maintained original Ujoints on an unlifted 100 should last past 200k miles.