TLC4x4 Brake Calipers Who has them?
- Thread starter AATLAS1X
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4x4Poet said:But I beg to differ on the SSBC/TLC calipers having no performance advantage over the foreskin calipers.
The aluminum calipers will:
1. dissipate heat better.
2. reduce unsprung weight.
3. are probably stiffer bodied to keep better pad alignment.
4. May produce less pad and rotor wear as a result of #1 and #3.
I am not arguing, just enjoy a little debate.
1. It may. Beyond the material, mass, size, area, shape and design all come into play. Is this really quantifyable? We're talking about a 30+ year old utility vehicle, not a freekin race car.
2. I agree. But again, is this really quantifyable? I think more benefit per dollar could be achieved in this area by taking off the winch, heavy bumper, etc. What about that 150 lb oversized rim/tire$ If you want to reduce unsprung weight, the smaller tire/rim the better. I thought the whole marketing theory of these 'monster calpiers' was 'stops 35's like stock tires".
3. I disagree. Pad alignment? If you got pads wearing unevenly you gotta piston stuck and more serious problems than a bling caliper will fix.
4. I disagree. In the real world a smaller pad will always wear faster as compaired to one with a larger area, assuming the same material. F=PXA. If the pressure stays the same and you increase the area the force is increased. How can you justify differently?
eshelbyk said:
Vented is pretty much always good.
Slotted...Not so. Same problem as drilled, the rotors can crack. I'd almost venture to say slotting would be worse than drilled because the cuts have sharp edges which form cracks easier.
There's no real reason for slotted or drilled rotors anymore. Older pads would outgas and it'd be like hydroplaning on the rotors. Newer pads don't do that so they don't need the slots or holes to let the gas away. The other thing slots/holes do are scrap the pads. Again, newer pads don't glaze over like older ones do. Slots/holes will still scrap though, and you'll burn through pads quicker.
You make great points worth considering before making such an expensive purchase for arguably questionable returns on the dollar–even over stock calipers– let alone 4 runner stuff. I'd have to agree with your perpective from a purchaser's standpoint, but he already had the calipers and I just pointed out their advantages, however meager, without regard for the wisdom of spending that much dough for what the calipers bring in the bling dept.
] UNsprung weight, so reducing even a pound adds up under motion/force. It's too bad all of us can't afford to go with bling, forged alum rims when we step up to big tires to bring the rim & tire combo weight back closer to stock to ease stress on the hub bearings and trunions. The trunions certainly benefit from any weight reduction though large tires would still increase leverage, the main enemy or trunions. So, lighter weight is a performance advantage, but minimal for sure. And your bumper & winch example is sprung weight– apples to oranges.
Again, I have to say I agree with you if I take your perspective. I think I'm on your side with regards to pertinant considerations for purchasing TLC's calipers. I simply disagreed with your blanket statement that there are "no performance advantages" with TLC's calipers.
BTW, I'd like to see a professional, engineering laboratory style comparison between the clamping force of stock calipers and TLC's calipers. Who's to say that TLC's calipers have that much more clamping force unless it's, as you say, "quantified".
Heat dissipation is quantifyable, but may not have a noticeable effect, as you say, for a Cruiser.dgangle said:
Weight is also quantifyable. The slightly lighter weight could compensate a little for the higher than stock weight that comes with larger tires and rims. And this weight is [Edit: Mace
] UNsprung weight, so reducing even a pound adds up under motion/force. It's too bad all of us can't afford to go with bling, forged alum rims when we step up to big tires to bring the rim & tire combo weight back closer to stock to ease stress on the hub bearings and trunions. The trunions certainly benefit from any weight reduction though large tires would still increase leverage, the main enemy or trunions. So, lighter weight is a performance advantage, but minimal for sure. And your bumper & winch example is sprung weight– apples to oranges.I meant that the beefy alum bodies would keep caliper body warpage under heat and during clamping actions to a minimum. I wasn't refering to any mechanical concern. So, you're right from a mechanical serviceablity perspective. And maybe his Cruiser and driving style won't bring this performance advantage into play. I threw it out there anyway for the sake of the first looong downhill grade while towing something heavy.
I meant that the pads would probably wear longer than stock. I have no idea what the wear would be in comparison to 4 Runner calipers/pads. I should have differentiated between the two options over stock. Of course, I said "probably" because I don't know for sure. Just that less heat retained at the pads within stiff-bodied, heat-dissipating aluminum calipers should reduce wear since any increase in reatined heat at the pads makes the composite wear faster– assuming clamping force is equal.4. I disagree. In the real world a smaller pad will always wear faster as compaired to one with a larger area, assuming the same material. F=PXA. If the pressure stays the same and you increase the area the force is increased. How can you justify differently?
Again, I have to say I agree with you if I take your perspective. I think I'm on your side with regards to pertinant considerations for purchasing TLC's calipers. I simply disagreed with your blanket statement that there are "no performance advantages" with TLC's calipers.
BTW, I'd like to see a professional, engineering laboratory style comparison between the clamping force of stock calipers and TLC's calipers. Who's to say that TLC's calipers have that much more clamping force unless it's, as you say, "quantified".
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OOH, I now have to go look!!!
Thanks!
Thanks!
AATLAS1X said:
Shane, I know you have been ass-deep in LC's for a long time. But I'm glad to see you posting and playing here. Good to have you. I have never been disappointed with anything I bought from you.
A little late, but W-e-l-c-o-m-e
Ed
Oh and my vote is DOT 3, sillycone ain't worth it.
A little late, but W-e-l-c-o-m-e
Ed
Oh and my vote is DOT 3, sillycone ain't worth it.
- Thread starter
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Degnol said:Shane, I know you have been ass-deep in LC's for a long time. But I'm glad to see you posting and playing here. Good to have you. I have never been disappointed with anything I bought from you.
A little late, but W-e-l-c-o-m-e
Ed
Oh and my vote is DOT 3, sillycone ain't worth it.
I never knew........It's like going to the church of MUD!
Thanks for your kind words................
I thought I saw bigfoot running with one....or was it riding next to Kennedy in the Zapruder film...
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Nice collection of parts.
I always wanted someone to sell fastener kits kinda like what you have gathered, OEM stuff.
I always wanted someone to sell fastener kits kinda like what you have gathered, OEM stuff.
In auto parts stores, I've found Dot 4 synthetic brake fluid that has a little higher temp rating than conventional Dot 3 fluid. Not to be confused with syn Dot 5, the Dot 4 synthetic is compatible with all Dot 3 fluids. I hope synthetic Dot 4 also absorbs less moisture, but I have no idea if it does.
AATLAS1X said:
The late 90's t100 calipers are the same as the v6 calipers. I have a pair from a 1998 t100. They are identical to the v6 calipers I also have, except the cooling ribs are smaller where the calipers often gets ground down for rim clearance. Same pads, same mounting holes, and same part numbers if you go through autozone, napa, etc... Searching the part numbers on an autozone site will tell you exactly what years interchange.