Restoring Hank

[Vae Victus]

aesthetically, when the ambi doors are on, i would rather see fewer holes in the body/quarters and be ok with extra holes in the sill. i would rather want the dropdown gate. more rare, looks better to me. speaking of the sill/tire carrier, what size tires are you going with? anything over 31 and i would be slapping on a 4+ one anyway or you will eventually tear the quarter panel.

What's a "4+ one" @kruisinkid ?

 

[sypd]

What's a "4+ one" @kruisinkid ?

Since @kruisinkid is probably fast asleep, and I need to get my message count up...

I believe he's referring to @lcwizard's company, 4PlusProducts. We used Dave Gores U-Bolt flip kit, and he's make my family roll cage. He also makes tire carriers and the like.

http://www.4plusproducts.com/fj40uboltflipkits.html

http://www.4plusproducts.com/fj40tirecarriers.html

 

[sypd]

aesthetically, when the ambi doors are on, i would rather see fewer holes in the body/quarters and be ok with extra holes in the sill. i would rather want the dropdown gate. more rare, looks better to me. speaking of the sill/tire carrier, what size tires are you going with? anything over 31 and i would be slapping on a 4+ one anyway or you will eventually tear the quarter panel.

I have 31s. Expect to graduate to 33s eventually. You mean to say the sheer weight of a larger tire would tear up the quarter panel with a stock tire carrier?

 

[Vae Victus]

Since @kruisinkid is probably fast asleep, and I need to get my message count up...

I believe he's referring to @lcwizard's company, 4PlusProducts. We used Dave Gores U-Bolt flip kit, and he's make my family roll cage. He also makes tire carriers and the like.

http://www.4plusproducts.com/fj40uboltflipkits.html

http://www.4plusproducts.com/fj40tirecarriers.html

Got it.

 

[sypd]

If you dont want extra holes and really dont require easy access into the rear, I would go with the bolt on tailgate from Real Steel. But if you do require easy access, and want the cleanest look I would go with a drop down tailgate especially since you have to open your tire carrier no matter what to gain entry. IMO the holes along the bottom are not as noticable as on either side of the opening.

I've been reading a lot of threads about this topic the past few days, and studying a lot of photos. I agree, the additional holes along the sill are easier to accept than more holes to the side.


Some reference photos of my ambulance doors, @Mechnizer's barn doors.




So here's my summary of what I've read going back several years in the forums.

Somewhat informative threads I've found on this to date:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rear-doors-plan-b.563811/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/will-learly-barn-doors-fit-late-model-tub.604188/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/antfj-77-build.206819/page-14
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj40-tailgate-one-last-try.396385
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj40-ambulance-doors-on-older-model-1969-from-later-model.377813/

1) @Living in the Past has commented on just about every related thread. So I trust he knows what he's talking about.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj40-ambulance-doors-on-older-model-1969-from-later-model.377813/

Tailgate and half doors started back to the FJ25 until the 75 model. Tailgates were only on the soft top models. Half doors were on hard tops and a very few soft top models. 75 had ambulance doors on the hare top and tailgates on the soft top model which were dropped in 1978. Ths is only for the US market and does not applied to what the rest of the world got.

2) Barn doors (US variety) are 1/2" to 1" narrower than the ambulance doors. I would imagine the same to be true of the original tailgates, but I didn't notice any discussion of that.

Solution seems to be to weld additional metal to the inner edge where the doors latch together.

3) 79-84 have corner radius differences from previous years. Not a concern for me since I have a 78.

4) Barn door hinges are not exactly he same size as ambulance door hinges, and not vertically aligned in the same position.

5) Best idea I saw to minimize holes in the tub is to use ambulance door hinge hardware, and move them up on the barn doors to position with the current (lower) ambulance door hinges. In one example, that's all that was added.

In this scenario any new holes and repair work is done to the barn door and not the tub. #win

I'm not sure how stable and secure this is....I wouldn't hang on it, but it seems like it would work out.

From @cbmontgo, https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/will-learly-barn-doors-fit-late-model-tub.604188/

You can spy some of the fit issues to the left.


@FJsnoozer says on that same thread that

The barn door hinge fits the holes of the ambulance door. I using these existing holes for the top hinge, so i only have to drill holes an backing nuts for the lower hinges.

True?

 

[sypd]

The one down side I haven't seen mentioned previously about the barn/ambulance/tailgate is that the top bolts for my barn doors (clock wise at the 10 and 2 positions) are floating capture nuts that are NOT accessible from inside the cab. The top 2 nuts float in cages that are inside of the inner tub and cannot be accessed without cutting metal out or drilling large bolt size holes. If you're looking for an OE secured setup, that is going to be a pain to re-invent. In my case all 4 bolts and nuts were totally rusted and pretty much unable to be removed.

re: floating capture nuts, is this the case only with barn doors, or is it also an issue with the ambulance doors?

 

[SSCR]

My ambi doors do not have the floating capture nuts, but the tub for the ambi doors does. Hope that makes sense. How often will you be running a soft top compared to the hard top? Are you trying to keep this rig as stock as possible (purist)? With my 77 restore I am trying to keep it as close to original as possible with a couple upgrades such as power steering (already had this when I got it), petronix ignition (no points), and a gear reduction starter. Last thing I would want is more holes in the tub, but I'm only running a hardtop. This is only my opinion.

 

[sypd]

My ambi doors do not have the floating capture nuts, but the tub for the ambi doors does. Hope that makes sense. How often will you be running a soft top compared to the hard top? Are you trying to keep this rig as stock as possible (purist)? With my 77 restore I am trying to keep it as close to original as possible with a couple upgrades such as power steering (already had this when I got it), petronix ignition (no points), and a gear reduction starter. Last thing I would want is more holes in the tub, but I'm only running a hardtop. This is only my opinion.

It does make sense, thx.

I've been driving convertibles for most of my life. The last non-convertible I had (excluding the family vehicle) was nearly 20 years ago. So, I expect to run the soft top 3/4 of the year, spring to fall.

Best laid plans of mice and men notwithstanding.

I err towards keeping it pure, however I'm not dogmatic about it. I'd prefer to not add any more holes than absolutely necessary.

 

[pavieSD]

Unless you have a rigging system for getting the hardtop off and on in one piece, I think you'll find that you end up leaving the hardtop on most of the time and I would plan accordingly. I live in San Diego and my hard top has still been on my truck for almost it's entire life. It's just really really heavy to get on and off unless you have 3 strong tall friends to lift it off and on, or a rigging system in your garage to pull it straight up off the top of the truck and store it somewhere. Think about lifting about 300-500 pounds of bulky metal straight up off the truck without scratching anything and then moving it somewhere else and storing it.

I believe the captured nuts are only on the barn doors, as the ambulance doors mount below the top tub edge. Also, I've been running a full 33 inch tire on my spare tire carrier (stock square) and have had no issues with vibration. The tire is really solid on the carrier once I added some rubber pieces to keep everything nice and tight.

The top two capture nut bolts are the two holes (missing bolts) in this photo. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't able to get those bolts out without snapping them, so I won't be able to fix this issue unless I cut out the metal of the tub and do some bodywork. For now, given my multiple other anchor points, it's not high on my list of things to fix.

 

[kruisinkid]

I have 31s. Expect to graduate to 33s eventually. You mean to say the sheer weight of a larger tire would tear up the quarter panel with a stock tire carrier?

\

yeah thats something I've read many times over. the structural integrity of the tube carrier as well as the sheet metal over time will fail. a 33x10.5 is on the border for too heavy a load. as soon as i can afford it, i will be buying a 4+ tire carrier. 20% for mud members last i heard!

 

[sypd]

This is not true. I just checked a ambulance door model, barn door model and tailgate model. All are right at 41 3/8".

Gah, what?! Misinformation on the forums?! How could this be!

I'm probably spreading it. And maybe I'm not understanding it all properly.

I've seen the 41 3/8" measurement mentioned. I've also seen 41 5/8" and 41 1/4".

I suppose what it all comes down to, nothing is a straight, plug-and-play swap and will require some negotiation to get a good fit.

The stock barn door hinges are designed to off set the doors with spacers on the part of the door hinge that bolts to the doors the door would move in and fit flush.

I'm still digesting what you're saying here. I think I get it. Wishing right about now I had my 40 and the doors right in front of me to reference.

As always, thanks for the info.

 

[sypd]

I live in San Diego and my hard top has still been on my truck for almost it's entire life. It's just really really heavy to get on and off unless you have 3 strong tall friends to lift it off and on, or a rigging system in your garage to pull it straight up off the top of the truck and store it somewhere. Think about lifting about 300-500 pounds of bulky metal straight up off the truck without scratching anything and then moving it somewhere else and storing it.

Yeh, I'm not expecting it'll be easy at all. I'll rig up a pulley system, or perhaps take it apart in pieces. I haven't looked very closely at that just yet.

I need friends, so this'll be my inspiration to get 3. Wanna visit St. Louis in late September to help me put it on?

I have a good friend that lives in San Diego. I thought you guys had amazing weather year round and would want to run with the top off all the time, no? I know it gets chilly in the evenings and morning, but it warms up usually, right?

 

[DSRTRDR]

stock tire carrier is rated for 29s - there's actually a OEM sticker that says so - IIRC, "Tools R Us" found said sticker on Raul (one of the 40s he and inkpot worked on in an earlier year)

 

[SSCR]

Yeh, I'm not expecting it'll be easy at all. I'll rig up a pulley system, or perhaps take it apart in pieces. I haven't looked very closely at that just yet.

I need friends, so this'll be my inspiration to get 3. Wanna visit St. Louis in late September to help me put it on?

I have a good friend that lives in San Diego. I thought you guys had amazing weather year round and would want to run with the top off all the time, no? I know it gets chilly in the evenings and morning, but it warms up usually, right?

Sure if I can go to a Hawk/Blues game and you let me sleep in your garage

 

[FJBlackWidow]

Nice, those are 74 doors setup for the same license plate bracket as the ambulance doors. Have him remove the bracket and install on the other side. That way when you switch tops it just a matter of switching the bracket unless you give another license plate bracket and just switch the plate. This is also the easier style to switch. Early style had two fixed nuts in the bottom of the door.

From what I have seen of Mechnizer's work I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing (JS)

 

[Living in the Past]

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone or question quality of any ones worked. Again sorry.

 

[FJBlackWidow]

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone or question quality of any ones worked. Again sorry.

How did you offend any one's work?

 

[FJBlackWidow]

From what I have seen of Mechnizer's work I'm pretty sure that is what he would do.make it easy to swap out the doors(JS)

 

[sypd]

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone or question quality of any ones worked. Again sorry.

Nah, you're good. I took your comments as helpful advice. Please keep it coming!

 

[sypd]

Switching gears a bit, I've been pondering sound. Having a good stereo and speakers are fairly low priority in the grand scheme of things. Nonetheless...

I think I want to replace the door panels and remove those speakers. I guess those were original?

I've searched MUD and seen a variety of ideas for speakers. Many are speaker boxes mounted in the rear, behind the seats, or in the far back corners.

Others are marine grade can speakers mounted to the roll cage in various positions.

I like the idea of mounting on the cage. If I can find something that fits the 4+ cage, this could be a nice solution.

http://www.autoanything.com/jeep-tops/73A6007A0A0.aspx

Has anyone explored these options?