New vendor "Bowfin Cruisers" and new 80 series roof rack option (1 Viewer)

[dogfishlake]

I don't mean to take anything away from dogfishlake and I applaud his effort to develop something new for our trucks! I genuinely wish him the best of success with it. I shared an opinion based on my first impression of the product. I don't want to turn his thread into an argument of any sort so I won't comment any further.

I looks like a really nice rack and I'm sure it is. A lot of people will love it I'm sure.

It's been a strange road all along for this. The design may evolve away from what it is but the best way to utilize the t-slot cross bar is a piece of aluminum plate for side rails. I have had a bunch of different cutouts on the side of the truck but this one looked the best. It is not the same as a Prinsu, but I get the major similarities. I would love for it to have a totally different look that I liked, but honestly this one I have I like very much. It is a shame because I wanted this new business to market things yet unseen to the smallish Cruiser market, and this is more of an adaptation. It is the first thing up because it was farthest along.

More irony to come, the next thing is sliders! THEN it will get interesting.

 

[LS1FJ40]

I get the similarities in the appearance of the racks. A lot could be said about bumpers and slides being similar.

The big differences, to me, is that:
1) Pat has been active and involved in Mud so I have more respect for one of our own than an outsider trying to cash in. (Yes I'm aware that it's a small market)
2) Pat doesn't seem like the type to take our money and run if he sells out to another company.

 

[Box Rocket]

I get the similarities in the appearance of the racks. A lot could be said about bumpers and slides being similar.

The big differences, to me, is that:
1) Pat has been active and involved in Mud so I have more respect for one of our own than an outsider trying to cash in. (Yes I'm aware that it's a small market)
2) Pat doesn't seem like the type to take our money and run if he sells out to another company.

I agree with what your saying in principle.
Let me give a little context to the Prinsu situation from what I know. (not that it really matters but there might be people looking at Pat's new rack that had been shopping for Prinsu but hadn't been able to get one yet). As most probably know Zach (original owner of Prinsu) had made a big mark with the Tacoma crowd and had a big following there. There were tons of Tacomas running his racks. In his defense I don't think he was an outsider trying to cash in on the cruiser market. He's local to me and I had a Tacoma so I was familiar with what he was doing for the Tacoma crowd. I wanted a rack for my 80 and I wanted one in the Prinsu style. I convinced him to build one for me. He went into it more like it was a one-off for me but if there was enough interest from cruiser owners he'd continue making them. I was involved in the design of the 80 rack since the first one was built for my truck (it's also why the production version is a bit different than mine since we found a few things that could be tweaked and improved). My point is Zach didn't get into it trying to "cash in" on a market he wasn't involved in. He did a custom job for me that he was able to benefit from as interest and demand grew.

To be clear, there was no kickback for me nor did I ever benefit in any way from the 80 racks coming to market. I was the first to post up about them since I had the first one and I was very happy with it and I've always said that. So any promotion from me was nothing more than that and never did I have an agreement with Zach to promote the rack, nor was there any kind of compensation for me for doing anything to promote it.

As for the selling of the company etc. Here's what I know. Zach was a one man show with Prinsu and it wasn't his main job. Anyone that has tried to tackle a side job knows that it can be difficult to juggle that with a regular fulltime job. The demand for Tacoma/4Runner/FJCruiser racks was massive and he was swamped keeping up with that and the cruiser racks added to it. Zach has a young family with small kids. Also his wife was dealing with some serious illness and was hospitalized for a time. All of that impacted Zach's ability to keep up on orders and feed the demand. There may be other reasons as well, but what I described I'm sure was a huge factor in his decision to sell the brand to CBI. He know he wasn't able to keep up with demand on his own and wasn't in a position to hire and manage people to run it, so the best move was to sell it to a company who could carry it forward. I don't think there is anything malicious and if you knew Zach you would know he is as good an individual as you will find anywhere. I don't know anything about taking people money and running.

But back to your point. I agree that it's cool that Pat has been so involved with this community and is doing something to support it. I can get behind that fully.

 

[dogfishlake]

I agree with what your saying in principle.
Let me give a little context to the Prinsu situation from what I know. (not that it really matters but there might be people looking at Pat's new rack that had been shopping for Prinsu but hadn't been able to get one yet). As most probably know Zach (original owner of Prinsu) had made a big mark with the Tacoma crowd and had a big following there. There were tons of Tacomas running his racks. In his defense I don't think he was an outsider trying to cash in on the cruiser market. He's local to me and I had a Tacoma so I was familiar with what he was doing for the Tacoma crowd. I wanted a rack for my 80 and I wanted one in the Prinsu style. I convinced him to build one for me. He went into it more like it was a one-off for me but if there was enough interest from cruiser owners he'd continue making them. I was involved in the design of the 80 rack since the first one was built for my truck (it's also why the production version is a bit different than mine since we found a few things that could be tweaked and improved). My point is Zach didn't get into it trying to "cash in" on a market he wasn't involved in. He did a custom job for me that he was able to benefit from as interest and demand grew.

To be clear, there was no kickback for me nor did I ever benefit in any way from the 80 racks coming to market. I was the first to post up about them since I had the first one and I was very happy with it and I've always said that. So any promotion from me was nothing more than that and never did I have an agreement with Zach to promote the rack, nor was there any kind of compensation for me for doing anything to promote it.

As for the selling of the company etc. Here's what I know. Zach was a one man show with Prinsu and it wasn't his main job. Anyone that has tried to tackle a side job knows that it can be difficult to juggle that with a regular fulltime job. The demand for Tacoma/4Runner/FJCruiser racks was massive and he was swamped keeping up with that and the cruiser racks added to it. Zach has a young family with small kids. Also his wife was dealing with some serious illness and was hospitalized for a time. All of that impacted Zach's ability to keep up on orders and feed the demand. There may be other reasons as well, but what I described I'm sure was a huge factor in his decision to sell the brand to CBI. He know he wasn't able to keep up with demand on his own and wasn't in a position to hire and manage people to run it, so the best move was to sell it to a company who could carry it forward. I don't think there is anything malicious and if you knew Zach you would know he is as good an individual as you will find anywhere. I don't know anything about taking people money and running.

But back to your point. I agree that it's cool that Pat has been so involved with this community and is doing something to support it. I can get behind that fully.

I think Zach has brought a great new product to us and definitely to the Tacoma crowd. He seems like a very good dude to me. Selling the company had to be bittersweet I bet but if the money is right, hard to argue with. I knew my design was similar and I did not want to mess with the efforts of a hard working one man show helping out Cruiser lovers. I decided to build a rack just for me and keep it quiet. That all changed for me with hearing of the sale of Prinsu as I feel it would be fine at that point to offer a competitive option. The new owners will continue with good products in the future I'm sure, and my parts will have to be good enough for people to choose what I have over other racks.

I highly value your opinion @Box Rocket , and I think you are one of the great cornerstone contributors to this group, so I very much appreciate your positive words.

I intend to stay with this effort of being a vendor of Cruiser parts, and maybe even some restoration work (back to my roots) as long as I can. It is worth way more than money to me. I get it that money doesn't grow on trees, but neither does friendship, and friendships can't be printed daily like money can.

Cheers!

 

[newtomelx]

Is there anyway to make the rack a little higher and turn the T slot members on edge? This would add a lot of stiffness versus laying them flat. This would also help differentiate it from the Prinsu. If that is not possible can you add some front to back runners, that would also add to the overall deflection of the T slots. These runners could also be the E-track style as they are much more economical to purchase.

 

[LS1FJ40]

I agree with what your saying in principle.
Let me give a little context to the Prinsu situation from what I know. (not that it really matters but there might be people looking at Pat's new rack that had been shopping for Prinsu but hadn't been able to get one yet). As most probably know Zach (original owner of Prinsu) had made a big mark with the Tacoma crowd and had a big following there. There were tons of Tacomas running his racks. In his defense I don't think he was an outsider trying to cash in on the cruiser market. He's local to me and I had a Tacoma so I was familiar with what he was doing for the Tacoma crowd. I wanted a rack for my 80 and I wanted one in the Prinsu style. I convinced him to build one for me. He went into it more like it was a one-off for me but if there was enough interest from cruiser owners he'd continue making them. I was involved in the design of the 80 rack since the first one was built for my truck (it's also why the production version is a bit different than mine since we found a few things that could be tweaked and improved). My point is Zach didn't get into it trying to "cash in" on a market he wasn't involved in. He did a custom job for me that he was able to benefit from as interest and demand grew.

To be clear, there was no kickback for me nor did I ever benefit in any way from the 80 racks coming to market. I was the first to post up about them since I had the first one and I was very happy with it and I've always said that. So any promotion from me was nothing more than that and never did I have an agreement with Zach to promote the rack, nor was there any kind of compensation for me for doing anything to promote it.

As for the selling of the company etc. Here's what I know. Zach was a one man show with Prinsu and it wasn't his main job. Anyone that has tried to tackle a side job knows that it can be difficult to juggle that with a regular fulltime job. The demand for Tacoma/4Runner/FJCruiser racks was massive and he was swamped keeping up with that and the cruiser racks added to it. Zach has a young family with small kids. Also his wife was dealing with some serious illness and was hospitalized for a time. All of that impacted Zach's ability to keep up on orders and feed the demand. There may be other reasons as well, but what I described I'm sure was a huge factor in his decision to sell the brand to CBI. He know he wasn't able to keep up with demand on his own and wasn't in a position to hire and manage people to run it, so the best move was to sell it to a company who could carry it forward. I don't think there is anything malicious and if you knew Zach you would know he is as good an individual as you will find anywhere. I don't know anything about taking people money and running.

But back to your point. I agree that it's cool that Pat has been so involved with this community and is doing something to support it. I can get behind that fully.

I don't know Zach so I cannot comment on him other than what I've read on Mud. I know people were upset because he accepted their money and gave them an expected date and didn't follow through with it or communicate that CBI would be fulfilling the order.

One thing I will say is that I have zero sympathy for any business that has "personal issues" that negatively impacts their customers IF they don't communicate with their customers. It takes 30 secs to change your voicemail message or create an auto reply on email. I've been in sales my entire life. People will understand as long as you communicate. When you don't communicate people get upset and start threads on Internet forums. We've all seen this multiple times. Good guys with a good idea but are not good communicators/businessmen.

Or when they get overwhelmed because their side hustle is taking up too much time from their day job. It is pure greed. They want their cake and to eat it too.

I hope Pat comes out with some other stuff that I like. (Hint: Third row storage!) Although my son likes the look of his rack so I might actually end up buying one...

 

[rolliges]

Available in silver (unfinished aluminum)? I always liked the aluminum racks the Land Rovers had with lengthwise cross members. Sort of solved the need to add a floor.

 

[Box Rocket]

Or when they get overwhelmed because their side hustle is taking up too much time from their day job. It is pure greed. They want their cake and to eat it too.

...

Sorry but that's complete BS and overly harsh. You may be fortunate enough that your day job covers all your bases financially. Others do not. I have a good day job but I also work 4 side jobs that require a fair amount of time each week. I work 5 jobs to support my family. So that's "pure greed" I guess. Heaven forbid I have a "personal issue". Maybe you should hold judgment until you've walked in someone else shoes.

 

[dogfishlake]

Is there anyway to make the rack a little higher and turn the T slot members on edge? This would add a lot of stiffness versus laying them flat. This would also help differentiate it from the Prinsu. If that is not possible can you add some front to back runners, that would also add to the overall deflection of the T slots. These runners could also be the E-track style as they are much more economical to purchase.

I had thought about the turned up t-slot, it's just that most are looking for low profile. I will keep it in the realm of the possible!

 

[dogfishlake]

Available in silver (unfinished aluminum)? I always liked the aluminum racks the Land Rovers had with lengthwise cross members. Sort of solved the need to add a floor.

I can do the silver. It would be easy enough to coat the sides in a matte low gloss silver that matches the clear anodized t-slots. I will try to coat one of the prototype sides in it tomorrow to show what I'm thinking.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

I get the similarities in the appearance of the racks. A lot could be said about bumpers and slides being similar.

The big differences, to me, is that:
1) Pat has been active and involved in Mud so I have more respect for one of our own than an outsider trying to cash in. (Yes I'm aware that it's a small market)
2) Pat doesn't seem like the type to take our money and run if he sells out to another company.

First I'll say that a true MUD vendor is where I will always look to buy, put my money or push my inquiring customers to. Second, I've already seen and requested a few racks for my new California inventory. I was planning on making a similar rack for the 80, but as I told Pat, I will refrain and sell his as an alternative to my standard lo-pro custom rack offerings.

Next, what has/did Prinsu or their acquisitioner ever do for MUD members or followers? Other than a couple of rack giveaways at an event or two? To my knowledge they never once supported MUD or Cruisers, but based their sales and support towards Taco/4 clients. So, great for Zach to get out and sell to CBI that has never supported MUD or Cruisers as well. Just look at their website... They do not offer one single thing for Cruisers.

IMO, CBI needs to relay and become a supporting presence here to continue against one of our newly supporting members and also a dedicated member for years with a good track record for advise and service to his clients.

Once again Pat... I'm all in and have a few ideas to make these racks even more enticing and streamlined. I fully support this move on a similar rack and new venture.

Let me know if I can help you along the way! BUY FROM A MUD AND CRUISER SUPPORTER IS MY VOTE.

J

 

[LS1FJ40]

Sorry but that's complete BS and overly harsh. You may be fortunate enough that your day job covers all your bases financially. Others do not. I have a good day job but I also work 4 side jobs that require a fair amount of time each week. I work 5 jobs to support my family. So that's "pure greed" I guess. Heaven forbid I have a "personal issue". Maybe you should hold judgment until you've walked in someone else shoes.

I'm not knocking anyone having multiple jobs. But if you take money from someone you best fulfill your obligation to them.

I work one job. A minimum of 80 hrs per week. I have little to no sympathy. I'd be p!ssed if my hard earned money went to someone that didn't care enough about their side hustle to communicate with me.

That is my point. We've muddied Pat's thread up enough.

 

[dogfishlake]

First I'll say that a true MUD vendor is where I will always look to buy, put my money or push my inquiring customers to. Second, I've already seen and requested a few racks for my new California inventory. I was planning on making a similar rack for the 80, but as I told Pat, I will refrain and sell his as an alternative to my standard lo-pro custom rack offerings.

Next, what has/did Prinsu or their acquisitioner ever do for MUD members or followers? Other than a couple of rack giveaways at an event or two? To my knowledge they never once supported MUD or Cruisers, but based their sales and support towards Taco/4 clients. So, great for Zach to get out and sell to CBI that has never supported MUD or Cruisers as well. Just look at their website... They do not offer one single thing for Cruisers.

IMO, CBI needs to relay and become a supporting presence here to continue against one of our newly supporting members and also a dedicated member for years with a good track record for advise and service to his clients.

Once again Pat... I'm all in and have a few ideas to make these racks even more enticing and streamlined. I fully support this move on a similar rack and new venture.

Let me know if I can help you along the way! BUY FROM A MUD AND CRUISER SUPPORTER IS MY VOTE.

J

Thank you. You have been a huge help with advice and open sharing of resource!

 

[dogfishlake]

I'm not knocking anyone having multiple jobs. But if you take money from someone you best fulfill your obligation to them.

I work one job. A minimum of 80 hrs per week. I have little to no sympathy. I'd be p!ssed if my hard earned money went to someone that didn't care enough about their side hustle to communicate with me.

That is my point. We've muddied Pat's thread up enough.

As long as this doesn't get knocked to chat, it is all good opinion sharing. I have a lot of friends that don't fully agree with me on certain points of view and vice versa and we are good enough friends to deal with it. Lucky we get to.

More tech cometh

 

[NateMob]

I like it, coming over here from the 4R/Tacoma world (Owned both) didn't have the best dealings with Zach/Prinsu and cannot stand CBI. Happy to see you @dogfishlake improve upon a roof rack design to make it your own and offer up here. I'll be watching out for your future releases.

 

[Box Rocket]

Please understand, I'm not defending Prinsu or suggesting that people should be buying that rack. I'm also all for supporting MUD vendors and supporters. From my experience, Zach/Prinsu has treated me and others well. If he's taken money from potential customers and not fulfilled the obligations, that sucks and is not acceptable. I totally get any frustration associated with that.

I have merely been trying to describe the bit I'm aware of that led to the issues with filling orders and ultimately selling Prinsu to CBI, nothing more than describing the circumstances with my limited knowledge.

As for Pat's rack. I've said before in this thread, it looks like a good rack, and I wish him all the success and I'm all for backing a MUD supporter. I was just disappointed that there weren't more differences to set it apart.

Anyone that still wants to lynch me for my comments, come out and lets go wheeling together and if you still want to throw me in the fire and bury me in the desert then I probably deserve it. Cheers. Don't want the thread to get pushed to chat.

 

[Yossarian]

The new owners will continue with good products in the future I'm sure, and my parts will have to be good enough for people to choose what I have over other racks.

I'm not so sure CBI will continue to support the LC community. Look at their website, nothing for LC's except what Prinsu was offering, all Tacoma's and 4 Runner's (please correct me if I'm wrong). So I say go ahead and continue with your similar but modified design, we are a small tribe.

BTW, @reevesci got some flack on the 200 forum for having a similar round steel tubed rack to (name your vendor). But in the end, I'll support the small vendor on Mud, and I think most here will also.

Edit: looks like I just said what was already stated in post #91

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

I'm not so sure CBI will continue to support the LC community. Look at their website, nothing for LC's except what Prinsu was offering, all Tacoma's and 4 Runner's (please correct me if I'm wrong). So I say go ahead and continue with your similar but modified design, we are a small tribe.

BTW, @reevesci got some flack on the 200 forum for having a similar round steel tubed rack to (name your vendor). But in the end, I'll support the small vendor on Mud, and I think most here will also.

Edit: looks like I just said what was already stated in post #91

Yeah as stated previously... There are several products that look similar and made from similar materials. But, the devil is in the details and the customer service that supports the products. I'm anyone's huckleberry on those items, name the date and time. But look into the real designer of the similar rack and plates.. Brownstone in the UK and now ask who holds the temp patent pending papers on a few of those items, not who was defended...

Also, people have their "friends" and acquaintances that they've gotten deals from and support those products for those deals... I have my preferred vendors/ "friends" as well, but there are VERY FEW that I refer to others when I'm behind or can't meet a customers deadline.

Enough about all the hearsay.....


P, can you detail your powder coating procedures for these racks when requested, estimated build time for a novice installer and a weight for the rack?

Some other 80/20 extrusions ( there are MANY extrusion companies with several anneal treatments T1 to T6 and blended aluminum materials for less than the actual "80/20" products) allow for a steel or aluminum rod to be inserted in the center of the extrusion to reduce deflection. Is this an option for your extrusion? If not contact me and I'll set you up with my aluminum extruding company in Woods Cross, UT.

J

 

[cruiserpilot]

Nice rack, very nifty latches! Looking forward to what the future fabworks bring.
Low profile is nice, but as some others might mention trying to attach RTT's is a bigger hassle
the lower the rack making attaching tents an exercise in frustration.
I can say, should you develop similar rack for a 60 series it would be well received.

 

[Proven]

I had thought about the turned up t-slot, it's just that most are looking for low profile. I will keep it in the realm of the possible!

Low profile is awesome, but I wonder if just changing the sides to be a little taller and putting a "Plus sign opening" where the cross members attache would allow users to swap between the thin edge and the flat edge of the cross member. It might also open up flipping them to add thin little dividers. Another option would be a taller side with a second cut out.

This would give a lip on the outside edge if the users chose to mount the bars in the lower position. I wish I could cad, haha.