Everything is working fine, fills great, but am getting a CEL once I hit 10k feet of elevation. I cleared it with my OBD tool and it comes back after a few drive cycles. Wondering if flooded and damaged my charcoal canister with the pressurized tank/boiling.
Gas/Fuel vapors/fumes visible from gas door
- Thread starter kalieaire
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That would be my guess. Maybe try searching for that P code in the Moab threads where people have definitely killed CCs before.
My first experience with this in the 200 was a couple weeks ago in Moab. It was a hot day on hells revenge where even the coolant temp was getting worrying enough to pop the hood and kill the AC. Very slow going, lots of slosh and tank was full. I never threw a code, but I could smell and see the fumes out the filler door. My wife smelled it first and mentioned it to me, but I knew the game. I killed a CC in Colorado a couple years back at a 100s in the Hills event so this is something the platforms share for sure.
I just got this code over the weekend. Couldn’t shift out of 4lo until I cleared it. How worrying is it to just keep driving it and clearing it?
For those that have OBD monitors, and maybe a dashboard via OBD Fusion, it maybe interesting to monitor a few parameters.
- Intake Air Temp (IAT)
- Evap System Vapor Pressure
- Long Term fuel trim Bank1 and/or Bank2
- Intake Air Temp (IAT)
- Evap System Vapor Pressure
- Long Term fuel trim Bank1 and/or Bank2
I'd add to your list of data points: The ECT (engine coolant temp).
I also like to run logs while driving. Have MPH & RPM is very helpful in decipher data.
All I've found boiling fuel, run hot! Most jump to over 203F just sitting (summer heat AC on) at a red light. Very often I find ECT hitting 212F+ in these fuel boiling rigs.
In a properly running 100 series, w/OAT over 80F. I find ECT ranging:
98-02: ECT 184-187F with momentary bumps to 190F in 100F OAT, full sun, stop and go traffic both AC on full cold.
03-07: ECT 194-197F with momentary bumps to 200F in 100F OAT, full sun, stop and go traffic both AC on full cold.
Been reading this thread and the one in the 100 series forum. I’m leaning on what @Taco2Cruiser said and that it’s heat related due to fuel return design and being heated in order to cool. Going to insulate my lines and portions of my gas tank later this week (Not a 200). I’m also looking into coolers and during my search I came across a couple Oem options for foreign markets for the VdJ200 and VDJ76/79/78 Cruisers. Obviously these are for Diesels but the vdj200 version might be an option with the us market 200 as there may already be a mounting location. This is just pure speculation on my part so please approach this with caution if you consider. But may be an avenue for some to look at.
I originally found 2 part numbers for the vdj200 on the partsouq site, but can’t find the other one.
Part # for vdj200 version 2392051030
Part# for vdj76/78/79 2392051011
I originally found 2 part numbers for the vdj200 on the partsouq site, but can’t find the other one.
Part # for vdj200 version 2392051030
Part# for vdj76/78/79 2392051011
Using the Torque app, it started flashing at me at 212 and saw a peak of 213.8. The Intake temp was 180. I popped the hood latch, killed the a/c, got moving just above idle, and the ECT started to creep down. Being on a trail like that (Hells Revenge) makes it hard to get moving in any meaningful way. The transmission temp was nice and happy though, so I guess that's good.
Some years of the Porsche 911 996 had a fuel cooler that worked effectively. I might still have one kicking around the shop. Might be worth experimenting with it. That being said, if I just stay out east instead of going to the mountain west, it may never be a problem again!
Amazing what a difference elevation and high ambient temperatures can make!!!Some years of the Porsche 911 996 had a fuel cooler that worked effectively. I might still have one kicking around the shop. Might be worth experimenting with it. That being said, if I just stay out east instead of going to the mountain west, it may never be a problem again!
I believe these coolers are all tied to A/C circuits. I'd be concerned a passive cooler on the cruiser may run the risk of picking up more heat in crawling conditions, unless routed away from the undercarriage.
A few years back, I was sending data to Taco2Cruiser from a trail close to home that I could repeat from one day then go back up the trail another day with different type of fuel, fuel level, ambient temp, ect. The trail went from 5k feet to 9k feet up a rough mining road that would definitely shake the fuel in the tank the last 3 miles in low range and avoiding differential bashers on 33"s. The first five miles were just dirt FS road. The last time I collected data I was 5-6 miles in and about 85 deg and started smelling raw fuel venting from the vent behind the fuel fill door not the gas cap. Not boiling, just very dense fuel vapors. All of the cooling systems fins up front have been inspected, cleaned for the heck of it, inspected again with no fault found.
I can only say that from my data points collected that a higher ambient temp and engine load is what caused my system to vent fuel vapor. Fuel type or volume at 50% or 90% full didn't matter. Also, a tail wind doesn't help the cooling system and makes the cabin smell like fuel and does not build confidence with any passengers or pedestrians.
I started to look for a OEM fuel cooler and found the same ones sr5pickup found. I do not have a shop any more or a lot of room in my garage so I have hesitant to find a place to install a fuel cooler with a fan up front.
I can only say that from my data points collected that a higher ambient temp and engine load is what caused my system to vent fuel vapor. Fuel type or volume at 50% or 90% full didn't matter. Also, a tail wind doesn't help the cooling system and makes the cabin smell like fuel and does not build confidence with any passengers or pedestrians.
I started to look for a OEM fuel cooler and found the same ones sr5pickup found. I do not have a shop any more or a lot of room in my garage so I have hesitant to find a place to install a fuel cooler with a fan up front.
It'd be interesting to know what type of bumper and under armor mods you have. And whether you were in low range range in this test?
A vender here was developing and testing their skids. First trip out and they got the gas to boil. Took off the skids and issue improved.
indycole
GOLD Star
The P0441 code and boiling fuel is a sure bet on virtually any roadtrip that involves altitude changes, extreme ambient temperature, and/or rock crawling. My first time boiling fuel was on Top of the World when my only modifications were tires, sliders, and a lift. I still had stock skids. The fuel was visibly running out of the fuel door area.
Since then I've added more weight to the truck in addition to a second tank. I've consistently seen boiling fuel in 200s with or without the second tank, as others have mentioned.
I've had fuel leak from the cap just a few times since then -- most often the issue presents with strong fuel vapor smells inside and outside the cabin, I can't transfer fuel from the aux to the main, and eventually will hear hissing as per the video I took a couple weeks ago on top of Imogene Pass.
Since then I've added more weight to the truck in addition to a second tank. I've consistently seen boiling fuel in 200s with or without the second tank, as others have mentioned.
I've had fuel leak from the cap just a few times since then -- most often the issue presents with strong fuel vapor smells inside and outside the cabin, I can't transfer fuel from the aux to the main, and eventually will hear hissing as per the video I took a couple weeks ago on top of Imogene Pass.
Total mods: 285/70r17s and king suspension, boiled fuel at the top of “Oh! point” coming up from the mineral creek rd side, which is pretty steep, but no rock crawling trail.
No codes, just strong smell and vapor/fuel sputtering out when removing the cap.
No codes, just strong smell and vapor/fuel sputtering out when removing the cap.
Stock bumper front and rear. The armor is on the under side and listed below and made by Bud Built. When Rob was designing and testing the skids he did test with temp sensors before and after with not much change if I remember correctly. I will let Rob explain his thorough testing methods.
I could not get the same reaction twice or change something with a predicted result. Always in low for the last 3 miles. 85 deg and above ambient temp seems to be the when I see it most. Even on neutered FS roads at 6k feet. H or L range it doesn't matter.
The vendor you referred to may have found the same situation. I do not think full Bud Built skids are much different than OEM plastic covers. I do not have technical data to back up that statement just a mechanical observation and on the same trail kind of testing.
There's many facets to this and from others inputs, it can happen to stock cars just the same. That doesn't mean there aren't factors that can further contribute and I do believe under armor is one of those. There's a difference between temperature and heat. Particularly in regards to heat which is the transfer of thermal energy, that sometimes is not measurables by ambient probes. There's probably convection and radiant factors introduced with skids.
The goal isn't to avoid skids. I'm sure the hive mind in time will find strategies to better insulate the fuel lines from picking up so much heat. Though in extreme situations, it may still not be enough. That's just an attribute of the fuel we have in the states.
So what’s the best fix for this that we know of? I have the CEL+flashing 4LO+trac off. If I throw a new carbon canister in there, will I just ruin it the next time I go off-roading? I ordered a MX+ code scanner so I can just clear the codes when it’s time to off road and I can get into 4 low. Will I pass emissions if I just clear the codes morning off the test?
Should I start my own thread?
Should I start my own thread?
I don’t think fuel lines or skids have anything to do with it. It’s boiling in the tank at altitude over about 90 degrees. I’ve read of similar issues in other non-Toyota vehicles but this also happened in my 80 any time I was over about 9k feet in the summer.
Gasoline can boil at temps as low as 104 degrees Fahrenheit and the boiling point will decrease at the higher you go. Unless you install a mechanism to keep the fuel tank cooler, it's gonna boil while at altitude on hot days. It's a physics problem, not a Land Cruiser problem.
..just my .02
Gasoline can boil at temps as low as 104 degrees Fahrenheit and the boiling point will decrease at the higher you go. Unless you install a mechanism to keep the fuel tank cooler, it's gonna boil while at altitude on hot days. It's a physics problem, not a Land Cruiser problem.
..just my .02
The reason fuel lines get brought up is our trucks use a fuel pressure regulator that flows the excess fuel back to the tank, and during its trip up to the engine compartment and through the rails the fuel gets quite hot. This thermal energy is just dumped back into the tank increasing the temp of the fuel beyond ambient.. or ambient plus all the heat under the rig.
If the fuel were cooled before getting back to the tank this would eliminate a major btu source.
This is a lesson the OEMs know well, and have made design decisions around, even if for different reasons than we are discussing. Some vehicles (the 2008 Escalade my L92 came from comes to mind) use a returnless fuel system partly to simplify plumbing and safety but primarily to reduce heat return to the tank which drastically reduces evaporative emissions.