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- Thread starter
- #1,442
Update
In my qwest to reduce the dartiness of my handling I started measuring stuff. I found differences with the rear fixed side spring hangers. They were 3/8s different with the driver side being 3/8s ahead of the passenger side. I had wanted to beef up the rear hangers anyways and get them to better fit the width of the spring bushings anyways so this was enough to set me in motion. Upon initial install I must have measured from something that wasn't in the same spot on both sides of the frame. Since that was 3 years ago I don't remember where I measured from but cutting off spring hangers and making new ones isn't that hard, just a little time consuming so I parked it on the back patio and went to it.
I cut some sides and drilled some holes. Then I bolted it on the spring so I could get the exact width to cut a piece for the middle. These were the end result.
Measured a bunch of times and welded them on.
Access to the outer sides was a little tricky since a leg from my sliders was in the same area.
With the new spring hangers on I hooked it back up and then pulled off my offending rim to replace the center. I separated the tire from the rim and put it in the car. Thankfully Brokenparts let me bug him on a work night and I used his plasma to eat out the center. Getting a angle grinder in there would have sucked.
Well, I did still have to use an angle grinder to get the lip that I stayed away from with the plasma. I cut into the weld and sectioned it out. Once I got this piece out I could just cut into the weld and then using a hammer and chisel to get underneath it I pryed a section out and then would cut more weld, etc. This helped me see how deep to cut and not get into the actual rim.
Then it was grinder time to flatten the weld so that the new center could slide into where the old center was. It uses the hump in the wheel to center itself.
I decided on using a level to get the rim level and then get the center piece level. I measured at 90s to get it lined up both ways and tacked it in. Check again and welded in a cross pattern 1-2 inch segments with lots of cool down time inbetween.
Slapped some Rustbullet back on and mounted it up. Impressions of driving it after that was that the dartiness was slightly reduced and the vibs were better. Still not as good as I wanted but better. I also found the driverside front wheel bearings loose so I tightened those up before the trip and that helped the dartiness even more. Dora was getting more predictable on the turn.
Skipping ahead, I did not get the rim rebalanced before the trip so the trip was kind of rough on the way down to Cali. While there I got the rear pair rebalanced. While there was an improvement, the vibs were still there, just not as bad.
Again another skip to most recently I decided to rotate the tires to see if the vib would follow one. I also changed the direction of the tread (rotated in an X pattern). I haven't really found anywhere that states which direction to run these tires and there is no direction arrow on them so I'm trying the other way. The vibs did not follow a tire and are still originating from rearward but with the tires flipped the vibs come in softer and at a higher speed. I also found the passenger side wheel bearings loose and actually found out why. The tab washer has a tang on it that keeps it in a keyway on the spindle. Mine has been sheared off so now it's hard to keep the preload when setting up the bearings. I got them tight but not too tight after a couple of trials but I'll need to replace those tab washers because the bearings will just loosen up again. I'll be grabbing a few for spares when I get some. That too helped my handling and it's just about a one hander now on the freeway.
In my qwest to reduce the dartiness of my handling I started measuring stuff. I found differences with the rear fixed side spring hangers. They were 3/8s different with the driver side being 3/8s ahead of the passenger side. I had wanted to beef up the rear hangers anyways and get them to better fit the width of the spring bushings anyways so this was enough to set me in motion. Upon initial install I must have measured from something that wasn't in the same spot on both sides of the frame. Since that was 3 years ago I don't remember where I measured from but cutting off spring hangers and making new ones isn't that hard, just a little time consuming so I parked it on the back patio and went to it.
I cut some sides and drilled some holes. Then I bolted it on the spring so I could get the exact width to cut a piece for the middle. These were the end result.
Measured a bunch of times and welded them on.
Access to the outer sides was a little tricky since a leg from my sliders was in the same area.
With the new spring hangers on I hooked it back up and then pulled off my offending rim to replace the center. I separated the tire from the rim and put it in the car. Thankfully Brokenparts let me bug him on a work night and I used his plasma to eat out the center. Getting a angle grinder in there would have sucked.
Well, I did still have to use an angle grinder to get the lip that I stayed away from with the plasma. I cut into the weld and sectioned it out. Once I got this piece out I could just cut into the weld and then using a hammer and chisel to get underneath it I pryed a section out and then would cut more weld, etc. This helped me see how deep to cut and not get into the actual rim.
Then it was grinder time to flatten the weld so that the new center could slide into where the old center was. It uses the hump in the wheel to center itself.
I decided on using a level to get the rim level and then get the center piece level. I measured at 90s to get it lined up both ways and tacked it in. Check again and welded in a cross pattern 1-2 inch segments with lots of cool down time inbetween.
Slapped some Rustbullet back on and mounted it up. Impressions of driving it after that was that the dartiness was slightly reduced and the vibs were better. Still not as good as I wanted but better. I also found the driverside front wheel bearings loose so I tightened those up before the trip and that helped the dartiness even more. Dora was getting more predictable on the turn.
Skipping ahead, I did not get the rim rebalanced before the trip so the trip was kind of rough on the way down to Cali. While there I got the rear pair rebalanced. While there was an improvement, the vibs were still there, just not as bad.
Again another skip to most recently I decided to rotate the tires to see if the vib would follow one. I also changed the direction of the tread (rotated in an X pattern). I haven't really found anywhere that states which direction to run these tires and there is no direction arrow on them so I'm trying the other way. The vibs did not follow a tire and are still originating from rearward but with the tires flipped the vibs come in softer and at a higher speed. I also found the passenger side wheel bearings loose and actually found out why. The tab washer has a tang on it that keeps it in a keyway on the spindle. Mine has been sheared off so now it's hard to keep the preload when setting up the bearings. I got them tight but not too tight after a couple of trials but I'll need to replace those tab washers because the bearings will just loosen up again. I'll be grabbing a few for spares when I get some. That too helped my handling and it's just about a one hander now on the freeway.
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Great writeup I just spent the last 3 days on and off reading every page and post, Well done!
I feel like I know the 4BT now and also the inside of a 4L80. Seeing all the trials and problems along the way has made me feel like I'm not the only one suffering some times with failures and problems that have me chasing my tail.
Jeremy
I feel like I know the 4BT now and also the inside of a 4L80. Seeing all the trials and problems along the way has made me feel like I'm not the only one suffering some times with failures and problems that have me chasing my tail.
Jeremy
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Nice update!
- Thread starter
- #1,445
Update
The old control box for the electronic tranny had some issues. The display didn't light all the way up and the switch for t.converter lockup didn't do anything. I talked to a electronics guy at work and he said he'd help. I gave him one of the boxes I had and he had a hard time figuring out why the previous guy did what he did. Since we knew what we needed and how to operate the tranny he said he'd just build a new one for me. I got him all the parts and he put it together. He made it robust, low tech and easily fixable out in the woods. There is a logic board in there and the solenoids are activated with relays. If a relay dies it's a quick swap. He got done and I installed it before the Dusy trip. The box is big but it fit this spot on my console/subwoofer box rather well. I can get into if needed.
Controls were harder to decide on. He made up two different cables and I told him I'd deal with mounting it up. One of them was a switch for the lockup and then a clicker wheel to shift through the gears. It was smaller than I had imaged but I thought I found the perfect place for it. I was able to modify the steering wheel and place it the spot of one of the horn buttons. I cut out a face plate for a mount and attached it to the steering wheel.
I was really happy with how this was turning out, to be able to keep my hands on the wheel and control my tranny. The problem I ran into was trying to figure out how to get the cable to wind and unwind when I turned the wheel. I tried a bunch of different approaches but nothing I came up with worked with what I had. I even thought about replacing the cable with spiral telephone line but I needed 5 signal wires and telephone line only has 4.
With time running out I scratched the steering wheel idea and fabbed up a quick mount behind the steering wheel that is fixed. I also mounted the display that shows what gear I'm in and if I'm locked or not.
I had plans of redoing this later to make it more aesthetically appealing but it will do for now, besides I have some future plans/changes that will eliminate this so I don't want to spend too much time on it. I don't really like where I placed it and it makes shifting hard when turning the wheel. I love having the display right where I can easily see it. Nice to quickly see what gear I'm in. The controls connection is a 9pin and can be swapped out if these controls fail.
I have another cable that I'm going to set up on a knob like my last control box and probably make mountable on the console like I did with the last box.
Results: the tranny shifts quickly, like right now quick. And I've been having some engagement trouble with the lockup but I pretty sure that is tranny related and not control related. The lockup takes a second or two to engage, not positively like my last tranny. I swapped out the lockup solenoid last week and that didn't help so I'll have to study the tech manual to see if I've got a fluid pathway problem. With this control box is the first time I've had lockup operational so it's probably been this way since I bought it. It's also possible that the t.converter could be the culprit but it did well in the last tranny so I've figured it out of the equation. Anyway it works and it helps keep my eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel.
Baumann makes a neat little tranny controller (optishift) in a very reasonable price range so I've been toying with the idea of going to full auto. It has a manual shift mode on it that I could use to give me the control back but make it less operator like
princess: likes this idea) while driving around town. With the controller dealing with line pressure better than I am right now the shifts will be smoother as well plus it's all tunable. All in the name of experimenting I guess.
The old control box for the electronic tranny had some issues. The display didn't light all the way up and the switch for t.converter lockup didn't do anything. I talked to a electronics guy at work and he said he'd help. I gave him one of the boxes I had and he had a hard time figuring out why the previous guy did what he did. Since we knew what we needed and how to operate the tranny he said he'd just build a new one for me. I got him all the parts and he put it together. He made it robust, low tech and easily fixable out in the woods. There is a logic board in there and the solenoids are activated with relays. If a relay dies it's a quick swap. He got done and I installed it before the Dusy trip. The box is big but it fit this spot on my console/subwoofer box rather well. I can get into if needed.
Controls were harder to decide on. He made up two different cables and I told him I'd deal with mounting it up. One of them was a switch for the lockup and then a clicker wheel to shift through the gears. It was smaller than I had imaged but I thought I found the perfect place for it. I was able to modify the steering wheel and place it the spot of one of the horn buttons. I cut out a face plate for a mount and attached it to the steering wheel.
I was really happy with how this was turning out, to be able to keep my hands on the wheel and control my tranny. The problem I ran into was trying to figure out how to get the cable to wind and unwind when I turned the wheel. I tried a bunch of different approaches but nothing I came up with worked with what I had. I even thought about replacing the cable with spiral telephone line but I needed 5 signal wires and telephone line only has 4.
With time running out I scratched the steering wheel idea and fabbed up a quick mount behind the steering wheel that is fixed. I also mounted the display that shows what gear I'm in and if I'm locked or not.
I had plans of redoing this later to make it more aesthetically appealing but it will do for now, besides I have some future plans/changes that will eliminate this so I don't want to spend too much time on it. I don't really like where I placed it and it makes shifting hard when turning the wheel. I love having the display right where I can easily see it. Nice to quickly see what gear I'm in. The controls connection is a 9pin and can be swapped out if these controls fail.
I have another cable that I'm going to set up on a knob like my last control box and probably make mountable on the console like I did with the last box.
Results: the tranny shifts quickly, like right now quick. And I've been having some engagement trouble with the lockup but I pretty sure that is tranny related and not control related. The lockup takes a second or two to engage, not positively like my last tranny. I swapped out the lockup solenoid last week and that didn't help so I'll have to study the tech manual to see if I've got a fluid pathway problem. With this control box is the first time I've had lockup operational so it's probably been this way since I bought it. It's also possible that the t.converter could be the culprit but it did well in the last tranny so I've figured it out of the equation. Anyway it works and it helps keep my eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel.
Baumann makes a neat little tranny controller (optishift) in a very reasonable price range so I've been toying with the idea of going to full auto. It has a manual shift mode on it that I could use to give me the control back but make it less operator like
princess: likes this idea) while driving around town. With the controller dealing with line pressure better than I am right now the shifts will be smoother as well plus it's all tunable. All in the name of experimenting I guess.
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Sweet set up...
- Thread starter
- #1,447
Update
Ever since Mace warned me about the rear shock crossmember being thin I've been watching it. Sure enough some cracks would appear. I knew I needed to redesign the shock mounts but kept patching it to buy some more time. After enough patches and a couple of extra braces it needed more attention so I cut it off to find it really wasn't being held on by anything substantial.
I grabbed some 1"x1" box from the local scrap yard and made a new very simple crossmember. I spent quite a bit of time on placement trying to squeeze every last inch of upward space without cutting into the body. I ended up making ends for the crossmember that raised it up from it resting on the top of the frame. Then I figured out shock mount position and gained a degree or two even more upright with ~3-4" of uptravel.
I ran out of time to do a more appealing shock mount point and needing it the next day dictated a more functional mount. Welded a bolt to the crossmember and welded a strap over it. You can see in the previous pic that I ended up welding two per side. This idea was for a potential second shock. Since the crossmember was going in a difficult to reach location I gave myself a future potential option.
I trimmed the bolts so I could get the shock eye access. Then I welded it to the frame. I still need to finish up with some additional frame-to-crossmember gusseting but it held up for the Cruise the Woods event that I helped staff. We wheeled the route to our checkpoint and then once our checkpoint closed we continued on the rest of the route back to camp.
Ever since Mace warned me about the rear shock crossmember being thin I've been watching it. Sure enough some cracks would appear. I knew I needed to redesign the shock mounts but kept patching it to buy some more time. After enough patches and a couple of extra braces it needed more attention so I cut it off to find it really wasn't being held on by anything substantial.
I grabbed some 1"x1" box from the local scrap yard and made a new very simple crossmember. I spent quite a bit of time on placement trying to squeeze every last inch of upward space without cutting into the body. I ended up making ends for the crossmember that raised it up from it resting on the top of the frame. Then I figured out shock mount position and gained a degree or two even more upright with ~3-4" of uptravel.
I ran out of time to do a more appealing shock mount point and needing it the next day dictated a more functional mount. Welded a bolt to the crossmember and welded a strap over it. You can see in the previous pic that I ended up welding two per side. This idea was for a potential second shock. Since the crossmember was going in a difficult to reach location I gave myself a future potential option.
I trimmed the bolts so I could get the shock eye access. Then I welded it to the frame. I still need to finish up with some additional frame-to-crossmember gusseting but it held up for the Cruise the Woods event that I helped staff. We wheeled the route to our checkpoint and then once our checkpoint closed we continued on the rest of the route back to camp.
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- Apr 4, 2006
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Agreed.... what kills me is the simple solutions that he comes up for complicated problems. I'm always humbled when working on projects with him.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Threads
- 162
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- 4,044
- Location
- Hillsboro, OR
- Website
- www.cascadecruisers.com
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Most gas charged shocks come with something along those lines from the factory
It was invented by Mike first
- Thread starter
- #1,457
More random Updates
Another quick project was to wire up and bolt down my inverter. It's extra big but I bought it at a fantastic price. Bigger is better right?
We ran a Dvd player, charger, and used it for the air pump with no problems. Permanent location? Probably not. After seeing Rick get to his spare parts in a drawer on the Dusy with all this stuff on top, meaning no unpacking, I definitely want to build a permanent drawer for the rear to store part/supplies and that will probably change the layout of things in the back.
I came out to the truck at lunch time 2 weeks ago at work and found one of the tires completely flat. There was a sidewall gash from the Dusy trip and then I found a piece of wood (a knot with a point) dug into one of the tread blocks. That probably came from the Cruise the Woods event that I helped staff. With slick conditions and several tire spin sections I figure that's where I picked up the knot. I pulled the knot, plugged it and filled it with air. It still had air at the end of the day but the next morning it was flat again. I took the car and
needed to run a quick errand so I told her to fill up the tire and take the truck. It held air for half a day so I figured she'd be fine. Nope. The side wall opened up on her and the tire went flat. She tried to air it up with the little compressor I keep in the truck but it was no use, she was stranded with the kids. I quickly took the rest of the day off work to go get her and throw on the spare (sitting at home and not in the truck). Yet another tire lost to sidewall failure/damage. (CLARIFICATION: This is the 1st goodyear sidewall failure I've had. I was referring to previous tires that have also had sidewall failures that I've run. The PJs, a Mickey T, and even a passenger car tire.)
I started thinking that this might be a good time to finally run the tires I want but after researching pricing I decided to just get another military goodyear to replace this. Not quite in the position to foot the bill for a new set of tires I really want so I'll keep running these. They did great on the rocks but are lacking in the mud but they'll do for now. I'm actually going to grab two and keep one around for the next time this happens. Right now I'm running my spare skinny bogger on the front and it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I've been able to do some one handed steering on the hwy straights. Just a little loud.
Another quick project was to wire up and bolt down my inverter. It's extra big but I bought it at a fantastic price. Bigger is better right?
We ran a Dvd player, charger, and used it for the air pump with no problems. Permanent location? Probably not. After seeing Rick get to his spare parts in a drawer on the Dusy with all this stuff on top, meaning no unpacking, I definitely want to build a permanent drawer for the rear to store part/supplies and that will probably change the layout of things in the back.
I came out to the truck at lunch time 2 weeks ago at work and found one of the tires completely flat. There was a sidewall gash from the Dusy trip and then I found a piece of wood (a knot with a point) dug into one of the tread blocks. That probably came from the Cruise the Woods event that I helped staff. With slick conditions and several tire spin sections I figure that's where I picked up the knot. I pulled the knot, plugged it and filled it with air. It still had air at the end of the day but the next morning it was flat again. I took the car and
needed to run a quick errand so I told her to fill up the tire and take the truck. It held air for half a day so I figured she'd be fine. Nope. The side wall opened up on her and the tire went flat. She tried to air it up with the little compressor I keep in the truck but it was no use, she was stranded with the kids. I quickly took the rest of the day off work to go get her and throw on the spare (sitting at home and not in the truck). Yet another tire lost to sidewall failure/damage. (CLARIFICATION: This is the 1st goodyear sidewall failure I've had. I was referring to previous tires that have also had sidewall failures that I've run. The PJs, a Mickey T, and even a passenger car tire.)
I started thinking that this might be a good time to finally run the tires I want but after researching pricing I decided to just get another military goodyear to replace this. Not quite in the position to foot the bill for a new set of tires I really want so I'll keep running these. They did great on the rocks but are lacking in the mud but they'll do for now. I'm actually going to grab two and keep one around for the next time this happens. Right now I'm running my spare skinny bogger on the front and it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I've been able to do some one handed steering on the hwy straights. Just a little loud.
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- Thread starter
- #1,460
Sure wish I could, they'll just have to hold out a little longer for me. I've got no major wheeling planned in the near future so they'll just be getting some street use.
I believe they are from here: Core Products USA; Road Ready Tie Downs for Pick Up Trucks, Trailers, RVs, OE Manufacturers and Specialty Markets
They were a gift so I'm not positive where they were bought.