liquid intercoolers... be careful with those, especially on a diesel. While it doesn't happen often, the chance of it happening is not zero - hydrolocking the motor due to a failure in the system. Have you looked at propane injection?
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- Thread starter
- #2,263
A liquid filled gauge did cross my mind. Might have to try that out if my isolating attempt doesn't work.
- Thread starter
- #2,264
So I still had this boost drop condition happening again even after the turbos were rebuilt. Well... at least I shouldn't have to worry about those for a while. I kept trying to get more elaborate on my theories and had a passing thought that wouldn't it be ridiculous if it was something simple like my air filter being clogged. After thinking more about that simple idea it was an easy test so I pulled off the filter and went for a drive around the block. Guess what... THAT WAS IT! I couldn't believe it was something so simple as the filter getting clogged. But in my defense it was a new filter so that's why I looked it over. With the filter getting clogged over time that's why the boost drop didn't happen at first, and why it seemed this condition was getting worst no matter what I did. After calling the filter company (talked to a filter engineer) I got a little more info:
R2C performance
3 different filtering media:
The other important piece I needed to get me easily back to the 50's was a fuel pin. I made the decision to run an M&H M3 fuel pin because it looked to have better no-to-low boost fuel control than the other options out there with the goal to help me try and keep the exhaust a little cleaner. It is not my goal to smoke out intersections. Back in January they were all out of M3 pins (one of their most popular). One finally became available toward the end of March so I called it a birthday gift and it showed up the next day. For those that don't know the fuel pin goes in the AFC (air fuel control) on a VE injection pump to allow additional fueling in response to boost.
A couple of comparison shots with the stock fuel pin. Stock on the right.
Stock on bottom with at its deepest curve up. The M3 has the low boost curve of the stock's least aggressive profile but cuts in deeper than the stock's most aggressive setting.
The black line is about where the fuel pin rests in my setup pre-boost. You'll notice the M3 is sitting on a washer. Overall the M3 is a little shorter than the stock pin.
Making no other adjustment than just installing the fuel pin I went from about low 40s up to 55psi total boost. The stock pin just wasn't enough to really use the compounds in my setup. I started making a few adjustments with my wastegate on the small turbo, reduced full power screw by 1/4 turn, set timing to 17 degrees, and played with spring tension on my AFC. I'm getting just a little more than 50psi total boost now.
I haven't been driving it much lately because on my last wheeling trip I dinged up my rear driveshaft and it needs to be retubed/rebalanced. But I did take it to the SOLVE beach clean up last month towing my trailer. I kept it around 60-65mph and saw a max of 1100F on the steep hills in the 40s psi range. Acceleration didn't seem to be an issue and smoke was pretty good/clean, although I'm still hazing a little more than I want during idle. I still have some tuning I want to try out but I'm much closer than I was before. The power is civil below 1/2 throttle but a beast comes out above 1/2 throttle making it easy to manage but fun when you want.
R2C performance
3 different filtering media:
Yellow - full offroad, stops everything, lowest flow, used for Baja running - needs to be a big filter
White - street and trail, the compromise, good filtration with good flow - just right
Black - drag strip and performance, suppose to filter to OEM standards but flows crazy amounts - can be a smaller filter
I originally had a white media filter, loved it but it was showing age and thought I was getting that when in fact I bought a yellow media that was also smaller. I put on the yellow and at first all was well but it began to clog especially under the air flow demand from compound turbos and its lower flow. If I really wanted to use a yellow I would have needed one that was probably twice as big. I have put my old white media filter back on and with that I was able to hit 55psi as I previously posted. I will probably be fine getting a white media replacement of the same size but I'll see if I can make room for the next size larger to give me some overhead when it starts to fill up. I asked the filter engineer about different combos like running the black with a sock and he said the only real reason to run a sock is for mud or when the filter could get splashed. For dust a sock does no good and they don't recommend running a sock in dusty environments (like the Baja) because as the filter gets shaken it drops dirt out of it; running a sock helps keep the dirt next to the media and helps it clog quicker. He said running a foam prefilter would be better in this application.White - street and trail, the compromise, good filtration with good flow - just right
Black - drag strip and performance, suppose to filter to OEM standards but flows crazy amounts - can be a smaller filter
The other important piece I needed to get me easily back to the 50's was a fuel pin. I made the decision to run an M&H M3 fuel pin because it looked to have better no-to-low boost fuel control than the other options out there with the goal to help me try and keep the exhaust a little cleaner. It is not my goal to smoke out intersections. Back in January they were all out of M3 pins (one of their most popular). One finally became available toward the end of March so I called it a birthday gift and it showed up the next day. For those that don't know the fuel pin goes in the AFC (air fuel control) on a VE injection pump to allow additional fueling in response to boost.
A couple of comparison shots with the stock fuel pin. Stock on the right.
Stock on bottom with at its deepest curve up. The M3 has the low boost curve of the stock's least aggressive profile but cuts in deeper than the stock's most aggressive setting.
The black line is about where the fuel pin rests in my setup pre-boost. You'll notice the M3 is sitting on a washer. Overall the M3 is a little shorter than the stock pin.
Making no other adjustment than just installing the fuel pin I went from about low 40s up to 55psi total boost. The stock pin just wasn't enough to really use the compounds in my setup. I started making a few adjustments with my wastegate on the small turbo, reduced full power screw by 1/4 turn, set timing to 17 degrees, and played with spring tension on my AFC. I'm getting just a little more than 50psi total boost now.
I haven't been driving it much lately because on my last wheeling trip I dinged up my rear driveshaft and it needs to be retubed/rebalanced. But I did take it to the SOLVE beach clean up last month towing my trailer. I kept it around 60-65mph and saw a max of 1100F on the steep hills in the 40s psi range. Acceleration didn't seem to be an issue and smoke was pretty good/clean, although I'm still hazing a little more than I want during idle. I still have some tuning I want to try out but I'm much closer than I was before. The power is civil below 1/2 throttle but a beast comes out above 1/2 throttle making it easy to manage but fun when you want.
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Just saw this on 4BTSwaps. It's a thread about dual filter setups, but you can see the guy's liquid filled fuel pressure gauge mounted right on the filter head:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?10997-Dual-Fuel-Filters-Water-Seperator
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?10997-Dual-Fuel-Filters-Water-Seperator
- Thread starter
- #2,266
True, wonder if his needle still shakes? He is taking his reading pre-filter so he's only getting a reading of the lift pump and it seems like being that much closer to the lift pump with its piston pulses might be more harsh than reading after the filter where the media and fuel volume in the filter can dampen those pulses a little more. I like the idea of using the gauge for both purposes of seeing how the lift pump is doing and how the filter is doing. By reading post filter we can also get an idea when/if the filter is clogged/restricted. I still haven't done anything about this yet, been working on the honey-do list 
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I didn't even notice the difference in gauge location! I was focusing on the gauge itself 
I agree, it'd be better to measure pressure post-filter.
I agree, it'd be better to measure pressure post-filter.
If you have room checkout the Donaldson PowerCore PSD air cleaners, about 1/3 the size of conventional pleated filters. I found some good deals on EBay for the PSD‘s but unfortunately I ran out of room and needed make one using a round PowerCore filter.
http://www.donaldson.com/en/aircraft/support/datalibrary/itemstechnology/040694.pdf
I used a P610875 for my 4BT and they told me it would flow 500+ CFM: https://dynamic.donaldson.com/WebStore/search/item_detail.html?section=10560&item=512030
- Thread starter
- #2,269
J Mack - how did you attach to the P610875 filter? Do you have a housing for it? Sadly all those housing are too big for my space available and I couldn't find a free standing powercore option back in the day that I could hook up to my 4" intake. I had always been interested in them.
I made a box for the filter.
My 4BT is in a 55 and I'm pulling air from the side vent, there are some pictures of how it mounts in my build thread somewhere. https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/target-carrier.796065/
- Thread starter
- #2,273
Some other things I've done lately.
On a previous wheeling trip I took out part of the driver rear tail light.
Picked up a new pair off of ebay. These came all the way from Taiwan and took a couple weeks to get here.
To my surprise these look like OEM Toyota parts. These same markings are on my good passenger side lense. Plus they were only 38$ shipped for the pair.
I tried to pop out that dent a little but I didn't make it look any better so I masked it off and painted it with primer to at least provide some protection for now.
We stayed an extra day on the coast after the clean up event and found a spot next to some friends we'd knew were at that camp ground. After we got set up we all headed back to the beach to play a little more.
The latest tune is getting:
Total boost: 50-53psi
Primary (big turbo): 30psi
Secondary (small turbo): 6.5psi
Cruising EGT's in town ~500F
Cruising EGT's freeway ~7-750F
I'm planning to try fixing the wastegate shut on the small turbo to see if I can drive it any harder, then tighten the big turbo's exhaust housing a little more and see if I can turn down the fuel a little more to squeak out more efficiency but overall the numbers look great so it's more of an experiment. I still need to replace my air filter and get my driveshaft retubed so I can drive it more often. Right now it's mostly taking the kiddos to school and back.
On a previous wheeling trip I took out part of the driver rear tail light.
Picked up a new pair off of ebay. These came all the way from Taiwan and took a couple weeks to get here.
To my surprise these look like OEM Toyota parts. These same markings are on my good passenger side lense. Plus they were only 38$ shipped for the pair.
I tried to pop out that dent a little but I didn't make it look any better so I masked it off and painted it with primer to at least provide some protection for now.
We stayed an extra day on the coast after the clean up event and found a spot next to some friends we'd knew were at that camp ground. After we got set up we all headed back to the beach to play a little more.
The latest tune is getting:
Total boost: 50-53psi
Primary (big turbo): 30psi
Secondary (small turbo): 6.5psi
Cruising EGT's in town ~500F
Cruising EGT's freeway ~7-750F
I'm planning to try fixing the wastegate shut on the small turbo to see if I can drive it any harder, then tighten the big turbo's exhaust housing a little more and see if I can turn down the fuel a little more to squeak out more efficiency but overall the numbers look great so it's more of an experiment. I still need to replace my air filter and get my driveshaft retubed so I can drive it more often. Right now it's mostly taking the kiddos to school and back.
Beautiful.
Wow, you could almost air up your tires with that but I think it would be hard with the wheels spinning so fast..
MPG's? Do you have a lot of blow by?
That is awesome Mike.
MPG's? Do you have a lot of blow by?
That is awesome Mike.
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It's funny that despite the tail light protection, you still managed to find a rock or something to sneak in and grab the top corner.
- Thread starter
- #2,277
I haven't really been tracking mileage as I've been tuning. I'm pretty sure with all the boost testing I'm not getting close to 20mpg's.
I do have some oil concerns that I'm working out now. I think I'm still getting fuel into my oil and with thinned oil I have a couple of new leaks I didn't have before. I'll follow up once I have a handle on it.
- Thread starter
- #2,278
I know! This is the second time I've had to replace this side. I guess my big hipped lady isn't as graceful going backwards or it's possible that it's the nut behind the wheel.
I think this is my problem as well
Do you have plans to put this monster on a dyno? I'd be real interested to see what your 4BT is pumping out with this new compound setup.