fabbing up high steer arms?

[hammered]

Here goes:


I have read all the tech and checked the search.
SO please no do a search.
Been reading for hours and can't find the info.

No one seems to want to talk much about cutting and welding the steering arms to make High steer arms.

Rob mentions and shows a shot in the tec section.
That is about it.
Goes on top say Not DOT.
But he welds it up in the vice.

Lots of talk about some old boy that heats and bends them, but no one ever done it themselves???
If so fill me in here.
ie preheating cooling all the details.

Lots on making a wishbone double arm.

If I am going to weld hell why not cut and weld them both up and cool them down slow.
They are cast steel.
I have some casting sand that I can cool them in if needed.
Any of you guys done this and run on the road?
can you suggest rod to use.
I have some Artec that I used to use in the saw mills.
Holds up well to impacts and welds nice on cast.
Any suggestions???


I have the SOA done & sitting in the driveway.
Just need to put the front axles and seal it up and trying to decide what direction to take with the steering arms.

I have a beefy set of arms and tie rods (maybe BJ60???) Still have the smaller fj40 gear.
double is an option.

As is at the moment I have been running the heavy linkage and arms.
Would like to keep this setup.

Really, help me make some arms up here and my mind so I can have this done manana.

I am open to all suggestions except dropping 5 bills on 6 lbs of cast steel.
Links also appreciated.
This site is monstrous now and a guy could spend a lifetime sifting through it.

Look forward to reading in the AM

 

[4x4 Station Wagon]

This site is monstrous now and a guy could spend a lifetime sifting through it.

Copy that!

This is going to be an interesting thread because fear says just purchase at minimum the arms. There are several resources out there such as marlin who i just purchased the entire kit for less than you mentioned however I know a guy who welds for a living and is very comfortable welding on cast (heating/cooling etc.) so if you are that guy then power to you weld on but a lot of us are probably going to be nervous for you and the motorists around you.

I have heard of cheap tricks around people using a bucket of kitty litter to cool slowly........ I dont know dont listen to me

My vote is trail rig weld away
Street/Trail rig at minimum purchase the arms and fab the rest

Steering » High Steer
Billet High Steer Arms
High Steer

Each arm is CNC machined from solid billet steel. All surfaces are machined including the split washer surface and the tie rod tapered holes. Machining these surfaces ensures correct and accurate contact between mating surfaces, preventing knuckle studs from being stressed and coming loose. Arms are angle compensated for correct rod end seating. Fits 1979 - 1985 Toyota Pickups/4Runners and Land Cruiser knuckles. Don't settle for low quality cast arms that have holes (porosity) in them!

"Includes 1 pair of our Billet High Steer arms for a 1979-85 Toyota front axle. This is the stock 17mm pin version for stock setups. If you are looking for our new 25mm Competition Series High Steer Arms"

$229.00

And mine came ready for the 60 TRE's which you said you had

 

[TLCHopII]

What vendor was the final quote from?

 

[camcruiser13]

You can get 4x4 lab arms for 3bills. I wouldn't weld my own steering arms. Not to say you can't but better safe than sorry.

 

[hammered]

Well?

I am in Central America.
Buying these arms is not an option.
Shipping and import taxes double the price of anything you have available there.
Not to mention a half day min. trying to bail out from customs.

Been 25 years prof. welding. (Industrial)
Comfortable welding and have confidence in my work.

Ya I know your not supposed to do this.

I Live in a country were most of the overloaded tractor trailers have no brakes.
Not kidding!

Some welded arms?
If they are done right why not.

Kitty litter?
Never heard of this.
Works great on the oil spills thought.
I think it would be a little light to hold the heat in. I am thinking casting sand is the stuff to use.

I have a kiln that I can heat up to and slowly drop the temp.
500-700' and drop it over a period of hours.
This would heat harden / temper if anything.


No others wanna step up?

will update this and check though the day.

Pura Bira

 

[4x4 Station Wagon]

What vendor was the final quote from?

The info i posted was right off Marlin's site.

I started wondering if i was crazy so i googled and found several of these:

FIRST, grinding cast is a last resort prep method. Chip out the crack to preclude smearing impuritys and it welds 10 times easier.

SECOND, that hub is so grease soaked it's going to give you problems no matter how you wash it for how long. Pack it in Kitty Litter or floor dry and heat it up to at least 300° for a few hours as part of the preheat process.

Welding unknown cast is generally a problem at best. Unless you have metalurgy on the cast 309 stainless filler will generally make the weld decently, and give the least problems welding.

post welding, rebury the hub in kitty litter and slowly cool.

I was pretty sure i had heard the confident welder i mentioned talk about the kitty litter method.

 

[shelfboy1]

back in the 70s we heated and bent the stock arms above the springs and never had a problem ,not the hot setup today .since they are forged it doesnt matter ,rod and custom magazine did an article on how to build a dropped pitman arm they cut and welded it .do you really need high steer ? on my 70 soa i used toyota pickup steering arms .pickup tierod and relay rod and it almost bolted up.i dont have power steering and the steering box is in the stock location good luck

 

[hammered]

Hey guys thanks for the input here.

Just slapping it back together now.
stopped for a Lunch break.

Anyhow Have yet to decide but I am leaning on bending.
Might be just temp for you that think I am nuts.

I have the kiln and heat to bend it.
May preheat and then spot heat the arm.
After this I will toss them back in the oven and cool them over 4-5 hours.
Basically turn off the kiln.

Oh ya I will pean the s*** outta them after bent.

Thought about it all morning well crawling around.

Keep thinking how does the old boy do it???
He can't heat the whole thing red or he will stand to mess up the bearing tit.
he must spot heat and then cool.


I was always taught a weld is a strong as the surrounding metal if done right.
In this case the materials are funky so who really knows.

Will post at the end of the day.

Thanks guys for the input here.

 

[Pin_Head]

The arms are forged steel, not cast steel or cast iron. I'm not sure what kind of steel, but a low carbon alloy (something like .2 to .3%) would be appropriate. This kind of alloy can be readily welded and would respond to heat treatment with increased tensile strength. You can also bend it and re-heat treat it, but you might lose some strenth compared to how it was after forging.

 

[pbgbottle]

not much to add to the bending info but here is thread from 05 with some pics on how to make and weld your own double arm post 12

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-seri...weld-bend-your-stock-steering-components.html

 

[camcruiser13]

Basically what it boils down to is do what you want and are confortable driving. It really doesn't matter what anyone says. Just be prepared for opinions when you ask questions.



Weld away

 

[xjnation]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/261093-hillbilly-guide-lifts-steering.html
You might read this thread. ?Follow the link in the first post. That's why alot of people will tell you to buy over build. If you are comfortable doing it then gopher it. I think heating and bending has less chance of failure then cutting and welding 2 arms together. Perhaps if you had a spare knuckle you could actually jig the arm up to heat and weld it so the trunnion stays true. SOmething to think about. Good luck!!

 

[rusty_tlc]

Well?

I am in Central America.
Buying these arms is not an option.
Shipping and import taxes double the price of anything you have available there.
Not to mention a half day min. trying to bail out from customs.

Been 25 years prof. welding. (Industrial)
Comfortable welding and have confidence in my work.

Ya I know your not supposed to do this.

I Live in a country were most of the overloaded tractor trailers have no brakes.
Not kidding!

Some welded arms?
If they are done right why not.

Kitty litter?
Never heard of this.
Works great on the oil spills thought.
I think it would be a little light to hold the heat in. I am thinking casting sand is the stuff to use.

I have a kiln that I can heat up to and slowly drop the temp.
500-700' and drop it over a period of hours.
This would heat harden / temper if anything.


No others wanna step up?

will update this and check though the day.

Pura Bira

it may be easier and safer to get the for a full hydro steering system.

 

[poose]

These are on my 55 I believe Wardens Offroad from P-Ville Ca. made these if that gives you any ideas

 

[poose]

I am going to be pulling them to switch them for 4x4labs I will ship these to you if you want them.

 

[pbgbottle]

i have one also in my spare parts pile ,suppose to be from warden also

 

[animaldevictor]

Hola hammered , yo soy de Costa Rica y tambien estoy breteando my carro, es un FJ55 yo le hice el brete asi:



ahora a finales de enero un señor de un torno me va hacer las piesas para un high steer, le cuento despues como me fue

tuanis

 

[hammered]

Eso es un grave con RTV.
Se cambio le ley de MOPT.

Vamos a tener fabricados professional entra una semana.
Steve 22 88 2631

Eng. version.

These wish bones are now outlawed here and the rig will not get the green light.
The have changed the laws with on modifactions.

We are fabricating up some Pro arms in the shop and should have some for next week.






Just to let you all know.

Just thought I would update those of you who helped me out.
Thanks for all the input.
Thanks for the offers
Bottle will drop you a line this spring when I am in Langley and we can meet for beers at the Cloverhole.
Downed lots of liquid lunches there in the past.
Have to come up for a job in May.

Just for the hell of it I welded them.
Had some ARTEC xxxx. That I brought back from CND. a couple years back.
Been sealed up waiting to be used. Made for this procedure and application.

I am going to lay it out here but limited. for those of you who want to weld a chuck of cast steel in the future.
Here is the deal.
Try not to grind as the disk will leave particals that can cause defects.
If you do grind then preheat lightly and blow it with the Oxy and this will displace the particals imbeded. This applies for both cast iron and steel.
It welds nicely if preheated.
Pean it out between every 2nd pass and never over heated.
At the end I hammered them out and tossed them back in the kiln.
They have slow cooled after 16 hours. Very slow cool.
I expect they will be very strong.
I have welded lots of cases( iron, steel and alum.)
This is much different due to your life is on line and you need to have the right temper and strength.

As is I might only use them locally around home for a few days.
Later they will be backups under the seat.

All the boys at the shop were interested in this tec.
Very weldable stuff if you do right. trick is to have the right temper when done and not have cracking.
We decided for fun we would put some tonnage to them in the press,
they flexed and no cracking.

I did a test on on an old arm before hand.
Low penatration if you think you can gusset them.
Hit it with a hammer and it will break off like a shard of glass.
Not saying it can't be done safely but I don't trust this design.

I will say in my surfing this topic. This is a total NO NO. Not recommended.
Not much out there as most guys don't want people messing with steering arms.
As I said not going to in depth into this thread on it as Booby with his flux core harbor freight welder might decide he can do it also.
Not a good idea.
Ya your thinking, and you!
Lets call it an experiment in the fab lab.

As for the cool down Kitty litter might help as it is kind of a pumice and would retain the heat but not long anuff from what the old gaffers told me.
The old fellas I called said longest cool down time the better. Oven / kiln. SLOW!

As is it is easier to buy a set.
Your all right about that.
If you were to pay pro welder he would charge ya near the price of a set.

I had some time the other night and surfed all the vendors out there selling HS arms.
saw them as low a 130 bucks on ebay. Lifetime guarantee.
I only ever saw them at 3 bills and up before really looking.
Most don't let you use your stock linkage so that was extra.

W is the man and he can bed them.
Not sure how he does it. Would love to know though.
Read all I could find on the site.


Seeing as my playground is a full machine shop we decided why not make a couple pair of aftermarket types that you all run.
Can't buy them here. like I said bringing anything in sucks and you get raped on the taxes and have to waist a min. 5 hours bailing it out.
No 4130 chromoly but they will be strong anuff to do what is needed.
Not climbing over VW bugs or rocks that size.

Should have a set for myself next week if timing pans out.

The wishbone doubles are standard here but are now failing the RTV or Tec revision that we are required to do every year.
My thought on these is they are more unsafe due to the lack of pen.



Thanks again for all the input.
Great site and always a wealth of information

 

[pbgbottle]

sounds great see ya at the downs i can see the track out my living room window. you could check out my 4x4 labs highsteer arms while your back in town


Jake

 

[Pin_Head]

Pean it out between every 2nd pass and never over heated.
At the end I hammered them out and tossed them back in the kiln.
They have slow cooled after 16 hours. Very slow cool.
I expect they will be very strong.
I have welded lots of cases( iron, steel and alum.)
This is much different due to your life is on line and you need to have the right temper and strength.


As for the cool down Kitty litter might help as it is kind of a pumice and would retain the heat but not long anuff from what the old gaffers told me.
The old fellas I called said longest cool down time the better. Oven / kiln. SLOW!

Por lastima, amigo. La ley es la ley en la costa de los ricos. En Mexico, todo es possible con mordita.


I think your are confusing welding steel and cast iron. While preheating, peening and slow cooling is critical for cast iron welding, it is not so critical for steel.

The rate of cooling will determine whether the steel is normalized vs fully annealed (slow cooling), but the fully annealed state is the softest and least desirable for this application. The best would be proper heat treatment with quenching and tempering depending on what alloy it is. This would give you the highest possible tensile strength.