Build Chicago builds a 40

[spressomon]

Just to complicate your life Keith: I was at Sam's today and there's a bright yellow hot rod 40, even with a GM SB and auto, sitting there with a 1/2 cloth top and the filler inside the rear portion of the cab; not sealed to the cabin in any way but if fuel leaked you'd smell it. And it has a Nevada plate. Sam originally built the rig and now the 2nd owner is having some work done to it.

Just thought you might like to vacillate over this a little more

 

[CruisinFJ60]

So a non vented cap, like the stock 40 cap, is what I need then??? If so, that is greAt news. I ordered a weld on bung for the 40'cap cuz I hacked apart the filler neck. Could re use it if needed, but. I should then be able to fab all the stuff I need myself to make the stock filler door and location work.

So how then would I vent the tank? What do I need for that now ? That is all tied into the evap system then, right? My harness is sans smog gear and now I'm kinda stumped on what needs to happen with all that.
I can't seem to find any info on fuel system requirements for the vortec even searching on the web. T
Lstech isn't much help either on this topic.

Yes a non vented cap is what you need.
Venting is tied into the factory EVAP system correct. The factory system also has a sensor in the tank for tank pressure. That is why it will throw a code on a newer OBD2 vehicle if you leave the gas cap off as it detects an "evap leak" either large or small, then that sensor works with the computer to tell the purge valve when to come on ect. bla bla bla.

The easy fix.

Are you having the computer reprogrammed?
If so you can have them remove the smog sensor stuff and it wont throw a code for that EVAP stuff. Then to vent the tank get ya a simple breather someplace and call it good. Maybe something with a check valve to in case of a roll it wont leak out of the tank all over the rig, or worse, onto you or your passenger.

I dont know that you could really find a vented cap, but if you could you could also do that as well. It should be designed to allow the tank to breath but still keep fluids in/ out of the tank. Honestly I would just do a simple tank vent with a check valve myself. Maybe weld a little nipple onto the top of the tank with a baffle / small plate under it just to help keep the splash up off of the breather tube.

 

[chicago]

Yes a non vented cap is what you need.
Venting is tied into the factory EVAP system correct. The factory system also has a sensor in the tank for tank pressure. That is why it will throw a code on a newer OBD2 vehicle if you leave the gas cap off as it detects an "evap leak" either large or small, then that sensor works with the computer to tell the purge valve when to come on ect. bla bla bla.

The easy fix.

Are you having the computer reprogrammed?
If so you can have them remove the smog sensor stuff and it wont throw a code for that EVAP stuff. Then to vent the tank get ya a simple breather someplace and call it good. Maybe something with a check valve to in case of a roll it wont leak out of the tank all over the rig, or worse, onto you or your passenger.

I dont know that you could really find a vented cap, but if you could you could also do that as well. It should be designed to allow the tank to breath but still keep fluids in/ out of the tank. Honestly I would just do a simple tank vent with a check valve myself. Maybe weld a little nipple onto the top of the tank with a baffle / small plate under it just to help keep the splash up off of the breather tube.

Cool...
So when i got the harness from howell, I also got an ECU from them that had been re flashed without emissions, as well as the NON emissions harness. So the pump I got from Tanks inc. has a vent on it on the top similar to the factory GM pump. Got the fittings for it to take off. Summit also sells an in line check valve like you describe. Cant I just plug it IN TO the EVAP port on the intake even though I wont be using it? Or should I get some charcoal cannister and run it to that?

Funny how all this stuff starts to tie in as you go along.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Rambrush]

Yes a metal can with special material inside

It's not that bad of a plan. But, redoing it will be much more Sano..



Not really. They are just another way to store fuel. And a significant number of them are just metal or plastic cans..

 

[chicago]

The stock filler door is a BUST!
Picked up a JAZ fender fill, which would be PERFECT....EXCEPT....the dia. on the tubing off the back of it is 2 5/16 in ID, so I either need a way to neck it down to 2 in, or match the dia which also entails getting NEW tubing, getting more tubing bent for the fender well ETC.
Itll be really clean when its all installed, but just gotta find the right combo to accomplish it.
Could weld a cap on the back of it, the re drill to 2 in and then weld the 2 in tubing off it!?!?!?

 

[chicago]

Just to complicate your life Keith: I was at Sam's today and there's a bright yellow hot rod 40, even with a GM SB and auto, sitting there with a 1/2 cloth top and the filler inside the rear portion of the cab; not sealed to the cabin in any way but if fuel leaked you'd smell it. And it has a Nevada plate. Sam originally built the rig and now the 2nd owner is having some work done to it.

Just thought you might like to vacillate over this a little more

Thanks man!
I really wasnt worried about it. You guyz were all being a bit DRAMATIC over the whole thing, but....the pending inspection is what got me. I really dont wanna **** with the DMV when it comes time to register this thing.

 

[Rambrush]

can you use a short piece of exhaust tubing? the muffler shop should have a expander to enlarge a piece to possibly go over it?

 

[rusty_tlc]

When you vent the tank put some kind of check valve in it so you don't lose fuel if you flop.

 

[peesalot]

A pcv valve placed upside down on the end of vent hose then a cheap little rc car air filter plugs onto other side of pcv valve. It does barley drip when flopped but it is good until you shut fuel off or put a cap on it. I ran it to the top of the cage corner back by the spare tire. If you flop it only drips if you endo on the spare some how or are straight turtled. If you are nose down and rolled or just side flopped it doesn't even drip.

O'rielly's(Kragen) , Autozone all carry a piece of exhaust tube that will be perfect for your needs. Go look into the section where they have muffler tips, they have adapters for the exact size change you need.
FWIW, There is one that you may want to pick up it is 1.5" to 1.5" "coupler which is just a piece of tube with a shoulder around the middle bout 3" long but it makes a nice trail fix for a busted radiator hose.

 

[chicago]

can you use a short piece of exhaust tubing? the muffler shop should have a expander to enlarge a piece to possibly go over it?

When you vent the tank put some kind of check valve in it so you don't lose fuel if you flop.

A pcv valve placed upside down on the end of vent hose then a cheap little rc car air filter plugs onto other side of pcv valve. It does barley drip when flopped but it is good until you shut fuel off or put a cap on it. I ran it to the top of the cage corner back by the spare tire. If you flop it only drips if you endo on the spare some how or are straight turtled. If you are nose down and rolled or just side flopped it doesn't even drip.

O'rielly's(Kragen) , Autozone all carry a piece of exhaust tube that will be perfect for your needs. Go look into the section where they have muffler tips, they have adapters for the exact size change you need.
FWIW, There is one that you may want to pick up it is 1.5" to 1.5" "coupler which is just a piece of tube with a shoulder around the middle bout 3" long but it makes a nice trail fix for a busted radiator hose.

The exhaust tubing is what Ill check out FIRST this after noon. I tell ya, the very best thing I had EVER learned to do was WELD, cuz it OPENS up options that you wouldnt ordinarily have.

As far as the vent line is concerned...
The last time I talked with the DMV, they ELUDED to the fact that they WOULD LIKE to see any vent connected to a charcoal canister of some kind. However, it is REQUIRED that all you HAVE is a GAS CAP.
Im not sure what is involved in hooking up a charcoal canister though, or really what it even does.
CruisinFJ said something about a "purge valve"? Donno if that would be needed or what, or if I did hook up to a canister it would be just a straight run to it with a CV in it somewhere?
There is NOT a whole lot of info on fuel systems on the web????

Thanks for the help on this gents.

 

[spressomon]

Gotta love the guberment. Go to another DMV and I'll bet you get a different opinion.

Our fine tax dollars at work...

 

[Mace]

Yes a metal can with special material inside

Only the expensive ones. Most fuel cells that Summit sells are simply boxes made out of metal or plastic.
Summit Racing SUM-290108 - Summit Racing® Pro Street Fuel Cells - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Safety cells have the inner bladder.
Summit Racing SUM-290112 - Summit Racing® Pro Sport Fuel Cells - Overview - SummitRacing.com

can you use a short piece of exhaust tubing? the muffler shop should have a expander to enlarge a piece to possibly go over it?

Bingo.. This is a good option.

When you vent the tank put some kind of check valve in it so you don't lose fuel if you flop.

Or, route the breather line in a loop from side to side of the truck. That way, no matter which way you flop it, you will have to "push" the fuel up to leak. My 60's cell is designed with the breather in the Passengers side front, top of the tank. The line goes all the way to the drivers side of the tank, then loops back and goes to the bottom of an expansion bottle like this one. Summit Racing SUM-300100 - Summit Racing® Aluminum Overflow Tanks - Overview - SummitRacing.com Then the top nipple is routed to the charcoal canister (which is connected to the intake by a solenoid which is controlled by the computer).

As far as the vent line is concerned...
The last time I talked with the DMV, they ELUDED to the fact that they WOULD LIKE to see any vent connected to a charcoal canister of some kind. However, it is REQUIRED that all you HAVE is a GAS CAP.
Im not sure what is involved in hooking up a charcoal canister though, or really what it even does.
CruisinFJ said something about a "purge valve"? Donno if that would be needed or what, or if I did hook up to a canister it would be just a straight run to it with a CV in it somewhere?

It's more of am emissions thing than anything. You can easily vent the vapors to the atmosphere. But it really is better to simply have them vent to the intake to be burned during combustion. The purge valve is just a valve that allows the Vac of the motor to draw the vapors in the charcoal canister into motor.

BTW, when I did the engine swap on my 60, the DMV required that I have every piece of smog equipment for the new motor on my truck. Donno if your DMV is going to be that picky, but it easily could happen. I even had to get a inspection of the motor block serial number to figure out what car/truck it came out of.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

Or, route the breather line in a loop from side to side of the truck. That way, no matter which way you flop it, you will have to "push" the fuel up to leak. My 60's cell is designed with the breather in the Passengers side front, top of the tank. The line goes all the way to the drivers side of the tank, then loops back and goes to the bottom of an expansion bottle like this one. Summit Racing SUM-300100 - Summit Racing® Aluminum Overflow Tanks - Overview - SummitRacing.com Then the top nipple is routed to the charcoal canister (which is connected to the intake by a solenoid which is controlled by the computer).



It's more of am emissions thing than anything. You can easily vent the vapors to the atmosphere. But it really is better to simply have them vent to the intake to be burned during combustion. The purge valve is just a valve that allows the Vac of the motor to draw the vapors in the charcoal canister into motor.

BTW, when I did the engine swap on my 60, the DMV required that I have every piece of smog equipment for the new motor on my truck. Donno if your DMV is going to be that picky, but it easily could happen. I even had to get a inspection of the motor block serial number to figure out what car/truck it came out of.

Yea I was just saying vent to atmosphere, but to the intake should be ok too as long as it wasnt pulling to much vac on the tank but I dont think it would be a big deal.

the purge valve from stock just temporarily vents the charcoal canister not constantly. If you ran a charcoal canister all you would need to do is run the line into it can be done with it. the charcoal helps to absorb some of the pollutants VS just venting straight to atmosphere.

I also like Jasons idea of the vent tube running from side to side so it has to push up no matter what, great way to keep fuel spillage down if in that type of situation.

 

[Rambrush]

I stand corrected thanks Mace..
So used to the fuel bladder foamy style did not realize they actually made a metal can design and called it a fuel cell.

 

[Fast Eddy]

the purge valve from stock just temporarily vents the charcoal canister not constantly. If you ran a charcoal canister all you would need to do is run the line into it can be done with it. the charcoal helps to absorb some of the pollutants VS just venting straight to atmosphere.

The charcoal holds the fumes until they can be pulled out via the engine vacuum. If you're not running into the intake, there's no reason to have a charcoal can. You should keep the charcoal can and use a check valve between there and the intake so you're storing and burning the fumes, but when the engine is off baro pressure is not exchanging air into and out of the tank. The vacuum and check valve is what causes the sucking sound when you take off the gas cap.

I just don't see any reason you'd want to smell gas fumes around your rig, in your garage, around camp etc.

 

[chicago]

ALMOST got the filler done!
Found a different neck at summit...STILL not the size I needed as it was too SMALL (1.5 in), but I was able to get an adapter to upsize the dia. to 2 in. Got it installed this eve, had to get some random parts and ran outta time to get it good and mocked up.

ALMOST there!

 

[chicago]

Yea I was just saying vent to atmosphere, but to the intake should be ok too as long as it wasnt pulling to much vac on the tank but I dont think it would be a big deal.

the purge valve from stock just temporarily vents the charcoal canister not constantly. If you ran a charcoal canister all you would need to do is run the line into it can be done with it. the charcoal helps to absorb some of the pollutants VS just venting straight to atmosphere.

I also like Jasons idea of the vent tube running from side to side so it has to push up no matter what, great way to keep fuel spillage down if in that type of situation.

I saw something like You and Mace were talking about over on pirate...

The charcoal holds the fumes until they can be pulled out via the engine vacuum. If you're not running into the intake, there's no reason to have a charcoal can. You should keep the charcoal can and use a check valve between there and the intake so you're storing and burning the fumes, but when the engine is off baro pressure is not exchanging air into and out of the tank. The vacuum and check valve is what causes the sucking sound when you take off the gas cap.

I just don't see any reason you'd want to smell gas fumes around your rig, in your garage, around camp etc.

So where would the vent line run from the charcoal cannister to the intake?
This makes sense to me, what you describe. Does it matter where on the intake that goes? Like I said, there is still a port off the evap. I looked at cannisters, and they are 150 bucks from rock auto. SPENDY IMO!

 

[rusty_tlc]

I saw something like You and Mace were talking about over on pirate...



So where would the vent line run from the charcoal cannister to the intake?
This makes sense to me, what you describe. Does it matter where on the intake that goes? Like I said, there is still a port off the evap. I looked at cannisters, and they are 150 bucks from rock auto. SPENDY IMO!

Probably the same place the PCV goes.

 

[chicago]

Only the expensive ones. Most fuel cells that Summit sells are simply boxes made out of metal or plastic.
Summit Racing SUM-290108 - Summit Racing® Pro Street Fuel Cells - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Safety cells have the inner bladder.
Summit Racing SUM-290112 - Summit Racing® Pro Sport Fuel Cells - Overview - SummitRacing.com




Bingo.. This is a good option.



Or, route the breather line in a loop from side to side of the truck. That way, no matter which way you flop it, you will have to "push" the fuel up to leak. My 60's cell is designed with the breather in the Passengers side front, top of the tank. The line goes all the way to the drivers side of the tank, then loops back and goes to the bottom of an expansion bottle like this one. Summit Racing SUM-300100 - Summit Racing® Aluminum Overflow Tanks - Overview - SummitRacing.com Then the top nipple is routed to the charcoal canister (which is connected to the intake by a solenoid which is controlled by the computer).



It's more of am emissions thing than anything. You can easily vent the vapors to the atmosphere. But it really is better to simply have them vent to the intake to be burned during combustion. The purge valve is just a valve that allows the Vac of the motor to draw the vapors in the charcoal canister into motor.

BTW, when I did the engine swap on my 60, the DMV required that I have every piece of smog equipment for the new motor on my truck. Donno if your DMV is going to be that picky, but it easily could happen. I even had to get a inspection of the motor block serial number to figure out what car/truck it came out of.

I DID check with the DMV prior to getting the harness from Howell...Got the dude's business card, date and time I talked with him...He said that since the vehicle is a 76 and is titled as such, the only requirement will be a SNIFF TEST from the tail pipe to the 1976 standards. Now, IF the vehicle were "X" year, it would need to be in complince with what ever OBD standard THAT vehicle was held to. and would thus have to match the emissions. Ill go BALLISTIC if that has changed!!!!!!!

 

[chicago]

Probably the same place the PCV goes.

Is that typically where the charcoal canister vents to????
That'd be easy enough.

You should be WELL INFORMED on this topic!