Bylaw Discussion - Member Qualifications

[GLTHFJ60]

I'd say that full members who no longer meet the proper vehicle requirements have until their paid member term expires to buy a proper vehicle to retain voting status but that time should be limited to a max of one year from their membership anniversary date. They regress to associate status after that for the remainder of their membership (since they might have a 10-yr, etc) until the vehicle requirements are met to become a voting member. Perhaps a special concession can be made if requested by committee and voted on by BOD.

They would also not be allowed to hold a BOD office past the one-year cutoff mentioned above until the vehicle requirements are met. This covers a member who gets elected then sells their only conforming vehicle and might lose interest in participating in BOD duties but gives a fair window in which to reverse their unfortunate situation.

Are these considered the same: 1. Sells or otherwise no longer owns vehicle without replacing, 2. Total insurance loss without replacing?

Just my thoughts.

--john


...via IH8MUD app

That's reasonable to me. As far as I'm concerned, total insurance loss / sale of vehicle / vehicle being stolen without replacing would all be functionally equivalent.

If we agree, this bylaws addition would have to be voted into place.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Also, Adam, we're just using your situation as an example. Your membership will stand as-is, so don't worry about it

 

[rw74228]

We could always make his camry look like this one for the next HAMOM:

 

[NCFJ]

LOL, that will lead to all kinds of threads, "Has anyone cut their Camry fenders to allow for 35s" Are double CD driveshafts really what I need? Did the 98 Camry come with optional lockers front and rear? I tried to weld sliders to my frame, where's my frame?

 

[elkaholic]

I am officially leasing Adam a 92 Land Cruiser. It does not run, will not leave the lot but he is now the official "owner" of said truck. Adam you owe me a penny.

Is it white, have a V8, and only need exhaust work ........ and is posted on CL?

 

[roadstr6]

Just playing devil's advocate (A-hole) here. I understand the bylaws as they stand. I'm totally fine with them. BUT...what, exactly is our consensus on whether a vehicle truly qualifies as a "Toyota 4WD SUV?" Is it the badging? Is it the VIN? Is it the frame? You see where I am going, don't you? Wait for it.......................Is it the drivetrain? BAM! Can of worms open.

My point is this: Rather than trying to draw a line in the sand to say who does or does not qualify as a full member based on what they do or do not drive, why not just open it up and allow everyone the same priviledges? It sure would be easier to manage. Are we Land Cruiser purists here or are we just a happy bunch of folks who like Toyotas and offroading?

Please understand that I don't mean any disrespect. I'm not suggesting that we change anything. I'm just offering food for thought.

 

[elkaholic]

Members of ONSC;

<snip>

ARTICLE III: Membership
Section 1: Voting Members
Persons seeking membership in this club as regular voting members must meet the following requirements:
1. Must be sponsored by a club member in good standing.
2. Own a Toyota Land Cruiser or a Toyota SUV 4 wheel drive.
.....

Speaking as someone who has probably not technically met all of the requirements listed under Section 1 (points 3 and on), there is one item that I would like to point out. As written, points one and two exclude Mr. T's 4x4 Pickups (minis, T100s, and Tundras). I am not sure if it is worth adjusting the bylaws for, but on a technicality, they are excluded.

My $0.02 which is pretty much useless ....

 

[Rice]

This conversation has already matured to the point of conclusion so let my thoughts simply rest on the sideboard until there is a need to revisit the issue ....

Question .... Why would the ownership of a proper vehicle need to be listed in the bylaws at all? The common center of the club is an interest in 4x4 Toyota's. Those seeking membership would automatically have interest in the same (i.e. I'm having difficulty imagining some ulterior motive for wanting to be a member). It appears, therefore, the nature of what ONSC represents would self-govern which people would seek membership without the need of bylaws dictating conditions.

In other words, If someone has enough INTEREST in Toyota 4x4's, regardless of ownership status, why not let that be enough to shake their hand and take their money?

Again ... table the question until it needs to come up again.

 

[custyota]

Damn that looks like my camry if were to lift it...... I plan on buying a cruiser again just not in the cards right now. If the Crockpot is still in the club does that mean that I'm grandfathered in as a previous owner? lol

 

[elkaholic]

Just playing devil's advocate (A-hole) here. I understand the bylaws as they stand. I'm totally fine with them. BUT...what, exactly is our consensus on whether a vehicle truly qualifies as a "Toyota 4WD SUV?" Is it the badging? Is it the VIN? Is it the frame? You see where I am going, don't you? Wait for it.......................Is it the drivetrain? BAM! Can of worms open.

Lookout Johnny, Dave's a gunnin' for ya

 

[GarnerFJ40]

I think the original wording somewhere was that it was a Toyota with a transfer case... The bylaws need a serious overhaul due to many multiple changes over the years. It had always been on my mind when I was president, but we had never really referred to them.

 

[elkaholic]

I think the original wording somewhere was that it was a Toyota with a transfer case... The bylaws need a serious overhaul due to many multiple changes over the years. It had always been on my mind when I was president, but we had never really referred to them.

I recall this being what was in TLCA's standard when I first joined many moons ago.

 

[roadstr6]

Not gunning for anybody, Sam. Just throwing crap at the wall. There are plenty of Chebby swaps, tube frames, etc. in our gang as well. Heck, the Crockpot has a Ford rear end in it. If anything, I'm pointing the gun at myself! Think about it. What's the first thing we as Land Cruiser owners do when we take ownership? We start modifying these things. Some take it farther away from the original platform than others. In the end, they are just a fun hobby for us...something that we love and enjoy and something that we all share a common interest in. Does club membership really need to be anything more than that?

 

[roadstr6]

Damn that looks like my camry if were to lift it...... I plan on buying a cruiser again just not in the cards right now. If the Crockpot is still in the club does that mean that I'm grandfathered in as a previous owner? lol

Adam, your membership fully rests on my shoulders now. With that being said, in order to maintain your membership in good standing, you will need to pay my membership dues going forward. I'd prefer that you go ahead and make mine at least a 10 year. I re-up in May so save up buddy!

Thanks,

Dave

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Just playing devil's advocate (A-hole) here. I understand the bylaws as they stand. I'm totally fine with them. BUT...what, exactly is our consensus on whether a vehicle truly qualifies as a "Toyota 4WD SUV?" Is it the badging? Is it the VIN? Is it the frame? You see where I am going, don't you? Wait for it.......................Is it the drivetrain? BAM! Can of worms open.

My point is this: Rather than trying to draw a line in the sand to say who does or does not qualify as a full member based on what they do or do not drive, why not just open it up and allow everyone the same priviledges? It sure would be easier to manage. Are we Land Cruiser purists here or are we just a happy bunch of folks who like Toyotas and offroading?

Please understand that I don't mean any disrespect. I'm not suggesting that we change anything. I'm just offering food for thought.

You're 100% correct in questioning the bylaws, and correct in that the current bylaws does technically restrict the mini truck owners from being members. This is a big reason why I put a thread up, because I think we need to revise this section in some way.

Speaking as someone who has probably not technically met all of the requirements listed under Section 1 (points 3 and on), there is one item that I would like to point out. As written, points one and two exclude Mr. T's 4x4 Pickups (minis, T100s, and Tundras). I am not sure if it is worth adjusting the bylaws for, but on a technicality, they are excluded.

My $0.02 which is pretty much useless ....

This conversation has already matured to the point of conclusion so let my thoughts simply rest on the sideboard until there is a need to revisit the issue ....

Question .... Why would the ownership of a proper vehicle need to be listed in the bylaws at all? The common center of the club is an interest in 4x4 Toyota's. Those seeking membership would automatically have interest in the same (i.e. I'm having difficulty imagining some ulterior motive for wanting to be a member). It appears, therefore, the nature of what ONSC represents would self-govern which people would seek membership without the need of bylaws dictating conditions.

In other words, If someone has enough INTEREST in Toyota 4x4's, regardless of ownership status, why not let that be enough to shake their hand and take their money?

Again ... table the question until it needs to come up again.

This discussion is definitely not concluded! Do we need to have vehicle restrictions? I'm not sure that we do.

I think the original wording somewhere was that it was a Toyota with a transfer case... The bylaws need a serious overhaul due to many multiple changes over the years. It had always been on my mind when I was president, but we had never really referred to them.

I recall this being what was in TLCA's standard when I first joined many moons ago.

I think Sam is spot on, this was borrowed from the TLCA, just like much of the safety requirements.

Not gunning for anybody, Sam. Just throwing crap at the wall. There are plenty of Chebby swaps, tube frames, etc. in our gang as well. Heck, the Crockpot has a Ford rear end in it. If anything, I'm pointing the gun at myself! Think about it. What's the first thing we as Land Cruiser owners do when we take ownership? We start modifying these things. Some take it farther away from the original platform than others. In the end, they are just a fun hobby for us...something that we love and enjoy and something that we all share a common interest in. Does club membership really need to be anything more than that?

I'm right there with you. Heck, Moonshine has zero Toyota related drivetrain components left. Springs, frame and sheetmetal is pretty much it.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

So do we want to completely remove vehicle restrictions for membership, modify the to allow all Toyota 4x4s or leave them be?

There was a good point earlier in that the vast majority about what we like in this club is self-regulating. I don't think we've ever had to "throw the book" at someone because of something they've did, nor do i think we've actively restricted people from becoming full-fledged members. I think all we're doing in relaxing the bylaws is putting in writing what we actually practice today.

 

[Rice]

I'm right there with you. Heck, Moonshine has zero Toyota related drivetrain components left. Springs, frame and sheetmetal is pretty much it.

Ho! There it is. Mr. President, I'm afraid we are going to have to ask you for the long form of your birth certificate, cus technically you might not be eligible.

Which is something I'm completely at peace with since Johnny clearly exemplifies someone that has a love for Toyota 4x4's. I would be prepared to vote for a removal of any vehicle restrictions as they relate to membership.

 

[Rice]

.... And if the vehicle restrictions stay in place I do have an extra 40 Transfer Case for someone to stick in the trunk of their car so-as to meet vehicle requirements.

 

[NCFJ]

I was president of a RC flying club for two terms and our club went through similar by law issues, as I am sure most clubs do at some point or another. We had a governing body as well, the AMA, Academy of Model Aeronautics. The club adopted many of their by laws in order to tow the line and be eligible for blanket insurance coverage. By laws became an every meeting topic that started to tear the club apart.

Where I am going with this is that the fastest way to plant the seeds of unrest in a club is to start knit picking the little details apart. It is a very long and slippery slope. I fully comprehend the need to be tied to TLCA and many of the by laws adopted from that group makes sense. What does not make sense is to adhere to by laws that fraction the club based on sticking points that are, in the big picture, not worthy of addressing.

I can tell you that this group is far and away the best club I have ever been associated with. It is all about the common love of Toyota 4x4s. This club comes together and helps fellow members out when in need, they show up at events to represent what they love, they gather at parties to share each other's company and look over what other members have recently done with their rigs. There are no egos in office to be "somebody" they are there for the good of the club.

Sure, amend the by laws if you must to make it all look good on paper. But in the end, does it really matter, is someone going to penalize the club for having a member with no Toyota 4x4 or Oh my GOD, should I say it, a Jeep?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[JohnVee]

Ahem... Please refer to TLCA chapter requirements re vehicles, then either leave everything as is or lets make sweeping and drastic changes.


...via IH8MUD app