ARCHIVE BlackBox-C Land Cruiser Planetary Underdrive

[jynx]

Not sure about the HF2A adapter, but you can get the Black box adapted to a split case out of a 60, you would loose AWD, but it would be WAY cheaper than going to the atlas and would keep the offset rear output. If I ever do an LS swap, that is an option I have penciled in. Plus the LS and Chevy auto package is shorter from what I've heard so should allow the Black box to go in-line without gas tank interference.

 

[Diesel Cruiserman]

The guys are not actively working on the that adapter at this time, I was chatting with them a couple weeks back.

 

[jkdowty]

Not sure about the HF2A adapter, but you can get the Black box adapted to a split case out of a 60, you would loose AWD, but it would be WAY cheaper than going to the atlas and would keep the offset rear output. If I ever do an LS swap, that is an option I have penciled in. Plus the LS and Chevy auto package is shorter from what I've heard so should allow the Black box to go in-line without gas tank interference.

I like the split case idea but after buying one, a full split case rebuild, and the black box I'm just a tad shy of the cost of an atlas that I can get from NWF...

 

[jynx]

I like the split case idea but after buying one, a full split case rebuild, and the black box I'm just a tad shy of the cost of an atlas that I can get from NWF...

Ah, I gotcha. I thought you were adding the Atlas on behind the Blackbox, but you are looking at the Blackbox OR the atlas. If that is the case, I agree, you are going to be in it about the same for either option. If you are looking for low gearing, the BB with a AA 4:1 gear set in a split case is going to be about as low as you can get with the pieces available. I know a guy in East TN that is doing a 203 ahead of a split case behind his LS swap. I am not sure what his adapter assortment looks like, but that might be an option for you as well.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[jkdowty]

And with the motor and tranny I'm getting only having 23k miles on it

Ah, I gotcha. I thought you were adding the Atlas on behind the Blackbox, but you are looking at the Blackbox OR the atlas. If that is the case, I agree, you are going to be in it about the same for either option. If you are looking for low gearing, the BB with a AA 4:1 gear set in a split case is going to be about as low as you can get with the pieces available. I know a guy in East TN that is doing a 203 ahead of a split case behind his LS swap. I am not sure what his adapter assortment looks like, but that might be an option for you as well.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Right now just gathering parts, I got a GMC Envoy Denali for $800 bucks yesterday with 23k on the drive train... Just too bad that GM IFS is left side drop, or I could the case from it...
Looks like I will probably just be doing an Atlas... Who knows maybe I'll come across something cool here in the next few weeks. I really wanted to use the HF2A and the BB though...

 

[Stumpalama]

Alan,

Kyle has been modeling the case for the 16 Spline, we dont have an ETA but it is in the works.

Kris
NWF

Any progress on the 16 spline version? I think there is a strong market for these for the older Land Cruisers.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Any progress on the 16 spline version? I think there is a strong market for these for the older Land Cruisers.

So 16 spline was only '75-'79 right? Not too many out there compared to other options. And rather than run a 16 spline H42, just swap to a later 19 spline H42 and run what they have already. I think @MountNGoat is installing one of these now and I can't wait to see how it does.

I'm stoked about the "black box" and thinking my next build is going to be SM465/black box/Split case or something like that.

 

[Stumpalama]

So 16 spline was only '75-'79 right? Not too many out there compared to other options. And rather than run a 16 spline H42, just swap to a later 19 spline H42 and run what they have already. I think @MountNGoat is installing one of these now and I can't wait to see how it does.

I'm stoked about the "black box" and thinking my next build is going to be SM465/black box/Split case or something like that.

If I'm not mistaken, the 16 spline transmissions ran from 1973-1980, which is not an insignificant span of time. That being said, I am running an H41 guts in an H42 case with a 16 spline output so I can run an Orion in my 1981 FJ40.
The BlackBox is a 2.27:1 case, so with my setup of 4.925 H41/Orion/4.56 3rds, I would have the 61:1 running the BB alone, 90:1 with the Orion alone, or 245:1 (!) with BB+Orion. Thus my interest in the 16 spline option.
With the stock 3.55:1 H42 and 2.28:1 T-case, the gains and range of ratios is much less impressive: Stock: 37:1, BB only: 44:1, Split+BB: 100:1 (which is only 10% over my current setup) and thus not worth the effort or expense to swap. Hell, for about 1/4 of the cost of the BB, I could swap in 4.88 gears and get to 96:1.

Based on my caveman math there is more value in the BB between an H41(or even H42) and Orion than in a rig with an H42 and stock t-case.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Ah--You have a 16 spline Orion. You sure with your H41 gearing that isn't enough gearing for anywhere you'd take a 40 as is? There is vlue in keeping the drivetrain of an FJ40 short.

73 was still a 10 spline 3 speed and 74 I think was a 10 spline 4 speed(IE transition year). 80 was 19 spline split case. So 75-79. But if you have an 81, why do you have a 16 spline transmission?

Or, swap the H41 to 19 spline, the black box to 19 spline and run a split case with 4:1 gears. Sell the Orion and recoup some $$.


I have some crazy deep gearing in my FJ60 and it's a very rare event to need double low. Most of the time, I keep the transfer in high range and the Toybox in low. That puts me at 110:1 which is enough even for a fat butt wagon.

 

[Stumpalama]

Yeah, I am always dreaming of stupid low though, I'm not sure why.

In reality, I am well set up for anything that I've run the 40 through and there have been less than a handful of times where I would have liked to have a little deeper gearing.

I just need to improve my driving skills vs. increasing capabilities.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Yeah, I am always dreaming of stupid low though, I'm not sure why.

In reality, I am well set up for anything that I've run the 40 through and there have been less than a handful of times where I would have liked to have a little deeper gearing.

I hear you on the gearing. I have run an SM420 to 3 speed case for YEARS and went everywhere one could reasonably go in a 40. Really it's been awesome. But for next year I'll be SM420 to Orion. That gets me past that 100:1 threshold where good things really start to happen. H41/Blackbox/Orion would be awesomely slow, but likely more than you need.

 

[Stumpalama]

I hear you on the gearing. I have run an SM420 to 3 speed case for YEARS and went everywhere one could reasonably go in a 40. Really it's been awesome. But for next year I'll be SM420 to Orion. That gets me past that 100:1 threshold where good things really start to happen. H41/Blackbox/Orion would be awesomely slow, but likely more than you need.

Agreed. I too would like to get up over 100:1, but I like to drive mine on the street still, so no stupid low 1st gear in my future.

 

[mcguirejohnson]

Just found this thread, really pumped to get my BB soon.

Going to be going from my old ratio of 50:1 (H55, stock t-case, 4.56 gears) to 135:1 same gearing everywhere else. I guess I will have to change my wheeling style from "pin it to win it" to slow and steady, which is definitely a plus!

 

[NoeyR]

I'm seriously looking into ordering one of these too!
Currently set up with an H41 with 4:1's in the splitcase and 5.29's in the diffs netting about 102:1. With the addition of the BB, I'll be at 279:1 with more gearing options as opposed to just one deep t-case gear.

Question to the 40 series crowd:
I learned that with the set up in my application ('81 BJ42), the BB adds about 8-1/8" in length. The fuel tank in '79 and later models have the tank underneath the body therefore may interfere with the install. My H41 trans is the short style (no spacer) btw. Unfortunately my rig is in storage and I can't creep underneath it at the moment to verify possible space issues. I've heard of some guys installing Marlin's Toybox and moved the engine forward. Can anyone with a later model 40 that has the gas tank underneath the body, and keeping in mind using a short style H41 confirm if adding 8-1/8" will cause issues?

 

[Stumpalama]

I'd like to know what the true length is as well. I think the tank will not be an issue, but the center cross bar would likely have to be relocated.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I'd like to know what the true length is as well. I think the tank will not be an issue, but the center cross bar would likely have to be relocated.

Yeah. No doubt about that. There is only a few mm clearance to the cross tube anyway. Not sure about the tank since I've not dealt with that.

 

[NoeyR]

I'd like to know what the true length is as well. I think the tank will not be an issue, but the center cross bar would likely have to be relocated.

The 8-1/8" length was confirmed from Kris from NWF.

 

[Stumpalama]

The 8-1/8" length was confirmed from Kris from NWF.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[NoeyR]

So I pulled the trigger on a blackbox!

I got some measurements from my current driveline. From the tcase, it's 5" to the cross member and 7" to the fuel tank. Having talked to other cruiserheads, the easiest approach to fit the doubler is to move the engine forward so that's the plan.

From my research, the use of a 60 series H42 transmission top cover with shifter to help relocate it, installing Georg's tcase twin sticks (option), cutting of the fan shroud down, and doing all the little doodads required for the forward move is the deal.

 

[dirtyboots]

Here's the BB and 62 series split case in an 80 series...I folded over the gas tank seam and have at least 1" clearance (not pictured)..waiting on NWF to produce the input...they sent the box to get everything mocked up minus the input..unknown ETA at this point