Another 2013 head gasket goes kaput

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All of that said, more pics.

Fuel injector inlet filters. Pretty sure they got torn up from the removal process. I don't see much stuff stuck in them.

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The overhaul gasket kit included almost everything needed but when you really dig in there are a few things left out. The cam phaser controller o-rings were in the kit, but not this special one that seals an oil distrbution block under the valve cover. While changing those I checked the filter screens for the phaser controllers.. both were perfectly clean. (good sign)

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I promised a little more info on the chain tensioner flow/air controller odd gasket thing.

This is only on the left bank tensioner, which happens to point downward. The right bank tensioner points upward. Another distinction is the left one is on the cylinder block, the right on the cylinder head. I don't think that really matters for oil distribution nuances.

It does have a bit of a gasket on one side to seal the tensioner to the little chamber, but the back side to the block is just metal to metal. Nothing inside here.. just a void with holes in specific places.

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This is how it's oriented on the block.. the hole allowing oil pressure/flow is in the top, but the feed hole in the block is in the bottom.

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And here's where it goes in the block

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A quick guess tells me this has to do with controlling air bubbles but I'm not sure of that at all.
 
A closer look at my primary timing chain slippers showed some unacceptable wear on the stationary parts. The sliders for the tensioning side (loose side of the chains) didn't have the same pitting.

In both cases the damage was at the top where the chain feeds off the slipper then onto the cog on the camshaft. TCCN's little snippet about what causes the milder chain rattle would have that slapping happening in exactly this spot. Curiously both sides had damage but I could only hear the rattle on one side.

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All new guides on hand waiting for the heads.
 
bloc said:
Today's lesson: be patient when it matters

I chose the shop I did because they seemed to know what they were doing and only needed a week for the work, vs the 2 weeks and hour+ drive each way of the shop that came recommended.

I'm not happy with the work they did on my heads, and if I want to buy new ones I have until tomorrow before one of the 25% off sales ends. So I don't have a lot of time to try and figure out whether spending the money is warranted. Plus I have concerns about whether they can ship cylinder heads and not ruin them.. (now having flashbacks on being patient).

Even if I don't order with the sale, my local dealer (who I have a good relationship with and generally hooks me up on pricing when they can) can't get heads quickly.

I dropped the heads off with instructions to resurface them, taking as little material off as possible, and hot tank them to clean everything up. They said they ended up taking 3 thousandths off. While I'm confident they are flat, the surface texture appears to be something that was acceptable in the days of graphite head gaskets but my concern is it's not smooth enough for our modern MLS gaskets. They told me they "haven't had any complaints".. but I'm also reading there is more to it. This is from Fel-Pro's website:



I can't say I trust Fel-Pro enough to run their gasket.. considering I want to get another 250k out of this engine.

Additionally the hot tank job was terrible, and there are shavings from the surfacing in all of the intake ports. I can clean that stuff up but is indicative of their lack of professionalism.

Pics of the current and original surface

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Original. Doesn't look very different in the images but you can feel it with a fingertip.

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There is a special meter to quantify surface roughness but they are quite expensive. And as I said I'm up against a deadline that would save me ~$700 if I can catch this sale.

On top of all of that I'm stuck at work for 48 hours so I can't take them to that dealership where my friends in the parts department could put me in touch with one of their master techs.

I did message @clrussell about his resurfaced heads and he said he just laid them down on a factory gasket and hasn't had issues. It was a "typical machine shop surface."

Hive mind? Am I worked up about nothing? Any thoughts @Taco2Cruiser or @GrouchyTech ?
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I know you have access to this but I'll point out for the thread that the max warpage is .00394in. If they shaved .00300 off you still have a tad under one thou to work with if you need someone to refinish, which isn't great but it's within spec. (Note that I'm assuming maximum warpage is the maximum amount that can be safely milled)

Personally I'd skip the sale and take them to your friend at the dealer or to another shop when you can and have them weigh in. Either they get milled and polished again and you're at the limit for milling them, or they are not salvageable at which point I'd hold the machine shop that didn't listen to your instruction accountable. (I once had a shop turn brake drums past spec despite my instruction, and ultimately they ended up replacing them with new ones). New heads seem like you'll be in it for ~$2500, I think?

Practically I'm wondering if you can put in an order with Serra but be able to cancel next week if you don't actually need them? Or if you can get a refund on the springs and other head parts you bought and order a set and drive down the effective cost further.

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Zill said:
My vote is new heads. Is it really worth the hassle to tear this thing apart again?
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Man I’m here with you. This would eat me alive thinking about having to do it again.
 
Tough call. I could go either way.

On one hand being this deep into it it seems it would be worth the few thousand for brand new heads even if just for peace of mind? While you'll catch the current sale, and Serra's packaging is the best in the business, it's likely to take a while to receive them.

On the other hand we can tend to be overly critical. I'd take them to another machine shop for a 2nd professional's opinion of what may very well be a standard machine shop finish?
 
I had the loud slap. I am running HPL Premium Passenger Car but will be downgrading to their most basic passenger car oil going forward based on recommendation from the company owner.

As an aside, I plan on running their Diff and Trans fluid here in next month or so at 153k miles on 14 LX.
 
Thanks for the insight @linuxgod @Zill @tbisaacs @rexington14 .. I decided to pull the trigger on new heads, which also means needing new valves. I spoke with someone at Serra earlier today and he confirmed the heads and enough exhaust valves were only a day or two away in their regional warehouse, but they would take weeks to get the intake valves. Fortunately my local dealer can get the intakes and while I won't get the extra 25% off all this will be around $2k extra. Almost $3k if I didn't have the sale.

Now I'll have zero worries about sealing surfaces. I'll get some pics of the new heads when I get them.

He also said that given my circumstances and checking ahead of time that their warehouse has stock they should be able to get the heads out quickly, I'll just need to call back next week now that the order is placed. I'll also just put a bug in their ear about packaging to survive the trip.

One interesting note about further milling of the heads as I do more research.. apparently one factor is that the timing cover wouldn't be milled as well. So at some point the valve cover gasket is sealing an uneven surface, and if you take things really far the bolt holes may not line up. Beyond that our VVTi can adjust for the shorter chain between the crank and cam.

04UZJ100 said:
I had the loud slap. I am running HPL Premium Passenger Car but will be downgrading to their most basic passenger car oil going forward based on recommendation from the company owner.

As an aside, I plan on running their Diff and Trans fluid here in next month or so at 153k miles on 14 LX.
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Addressing the loud chain slap is really good to hear.
 
Buy once cry once. If you like me plan on keeping a 200 for a long long time then you made the right decision.
 
dudemancool1904 said:
Buy once cry once. If you like me plan on keeping a 200 for a long long time then you made the right decision.
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That’s my thinking.

I’m also considering doing a few changes with protect & restore to address anything that might be lurking in the piston ring lands, which are among the few places on this engine I can’t inspect.
 
Holding pattern for now, waiting on heads. Serra said they would have them by the end of the week, then transit time to me. I’m anticipating early next week.

My local dealer was the best source for the intake valves and dowel pins. Looks like the machine shop used vice grips to pull the old ones from one of the heads. ****ing amateur hour.

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Just received the bad news that exhaust valves are on national backorder. Through the dealer I placed the order with I probably wouldn't see them til mid-April.

Now I get to try and find some from Japan. In the past I've been able to get things surprisingly quickly.. but it has been a decade, we'll see if those vendors are still doing their thing.

TBH my existing valves would probably be usable... but with everything else being brand new, it's a bit difficult to stomach dropping them in.

Serra will refund me the cost of the valves and ship the heads out today. Hopefully they survive the trip.
 
bloc said:
Just received the bad news that exhaust valves are on national backorder. Through the dealer I placed the order with I probably wouldn't see them til mid-April.

Now I get to try and find some from Japan. In the past I've been able to get things surprisingly quickly.. but it has been a decade, we'll see if those vendors are still doing their thing.

TBH my existing valves would probably be usable... but with everything else being brand new, it's a bit difficult to stomach dropping them in.

Serra will refund me the cost of the valves and ship the heads out today. Hopefully they survive the trip.
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Have you tried partsouq for your exhaust valves?

Just a thought - I have had great results ordering parts from them.

HTH

ETA:

Assuming this is the correct part number, they show 147 parts available:

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Partsouq and partsnext are good sources, but Mideast shipments may be delayed due to current conditions in the region.

Impex JAPAN is a good one... $14 each
 
Great suggestions guys, thanks. I did business with Japan4x4 on my 4runner diesel swap and a few other things with great results.. but yes I'll be looking at a number of options given the need for things to move quickly.
 
If available, the stainless exhaust valves from the IS F 2UR GSE will drop in here. They cost about $5 more per valve than the 3UR, but it’s an option to speed things up.
 
bloc said:
Just received the bad news that exhaust valves are on national backorder. Through the dealer I placed the order with I probably wouldn't see them til mid-April.

Now I get to try and find some from Japan. In the past I've been able to get things surprisingly quickly.. but it has been a decade, we'll see if those vendors are still doing their thing.

TBH my existing valves would probably be usable... but with everything else being brand new, it's a bit difficult to stomach dropping them in.

Serra will refund me the cost of the valves and ship the heads out today. Hopefully they survive the trip.
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You know far more about parts than me, but when I look up those valves on parts sites, I see many cross-references to other engines and vehicles. It seems ToyotaLexus used the same valve in lots of applications? It’s hard to believe there are no exhaust valves for any of those fitments available for over a month.
 
Thanks Sajan, I'll give them a look.

bjowett said:
If available, the stainless exhaust valves from the IS F 2UR GSE will drop in here. They cost about $5 more per valve than the 3UR, but it’s an option to speed things up.
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I swear man.. your parts knowledge is ridiculous.

Was that $5 extra MSRP? I'm less familiar with the sources for discount lexus stuff but what I'm finding so far is they're double the cost.

Plus I'd be obligated to get an F badge for the rig
 
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