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Cross member issues
Ok guys today they tried a few test placements of the drive train so that they could start refining measurements and exact placement of the motor and transmission mounts. We ran into a "problem", the cross member.
To be specific the 1HZ/H151(H150)/HF1A drive train is 3 inches longer than the B/H41/Split t case drive train that was originally bolted into the cruiser. Remember the H151 and HF1A basically came bolted to the 1HZ that I ordered. The offer I made was really for the 1HZ and I priced my offer accordingly. They basically threw the rest in because no one felt like trying to auction it off separately at that late date ( the night before the auction) in Japan. No one knew what the model numbers were for either the transmission or the tcase until the arrived here in country. As such there was no way for us to measure for length of drive train at the time of the offer and acceptance. It is one of the risks that you run when you are importing stuff and trying to respond to tight schedules etc. Anyway here we are.
There are several options on the table and the garage owner and I would really like input from you guys:
(1) Cut and re-position the crossmember, i.e., move it 3 inches back
(2) Cut the crossmember at some point in the middle, let the t case pass by and fab up a new middle section reconnecting the two sides
(3)Find a different bellhousing, one that is shorter and will work with the new drive train
(4) Sell the H151/HF1A tranny and tcase and buy an H55/ Split t case
Moving the engine forward three inches is out of the question. As Wayne's current build clearly shows the engine positoning putting the 1HZ into a 40 series is already tight. Frankly the engine will go in without too much fuss, again thanks to Waynes nicely detailed write-up.
Let's go through the options in reverse order:
(4) sell the new tranny and t case and replace it with an H55 and split case. Apart from the fact that this would be admitting complete defeat I would be walking into a complete unknown re: the state of the "replacement H55 and split case" . At least with the setup I have now it all came bolted together from the same vehicle where it was running fine before removal and shipment. I have a 1 year guarentee as it sits together right now. All of this ducks the issue of finding an H55 with the right input shaft for the 1HZ. If it doesn't have the shaft then that means having to source one here.
(3) This is an unknown for me (a) if there is a different bellhousing that was 3" shorter and will bolt on to the 1HZ/H151/H150 and (b) again don't know whether or not I could source one here.
(2) I did several searches through MUD and found various references to folks cutting cross members and then later basically "splicing" the cut out middle section such that the splice bends around the new t case etc.
(1) cut and move the cross member. To me this seems the most obvious answer and the most scary. Geometry tells me that the cross member was positioned exactly where it is so that it can give the frame strength while maintaining some flex. Moving the point either forward or backward changes that equation. What I don't know is is that change significant enough to consider some of the other more drastic options. The shop owner is worried if anyone can replicate the strength of the factory welds as the cross member passes through the frame rails and is welded both inside tthe frame and out.
One option that was sugested by a club member here is cut the cross member and move it. When we re-attach it or fab a new one have it pass through the frame rails again at the new location. He suggested welding the cross member into the frame as orginally done but then reinforcing the frame over that weld with 1/2" plate on either side of each frame rail. I think that idea is to reinforce everything at the point of the welds if at the end of the day that is the last concern. Here are a few pics.
Oh BTW if we go with option 1, moving the crossmember, it obviously implies having to move the gas tank as you can see in the pics. That concerns me much less as I can work out a swap for a larger aux tank with another guy which I can mount in the space under the rear of the rig. In that respect I would actually gain a larger tank and some additional range.
I am not wedded to any of these ideas but am leaning for not backtracking and moving the crossmember. I'm hiker who is just getting old enough to truly dislike backtracking if it can at all be avoided. Better to plan ahead well than to roll off and then have to turn around midway. As such, in the vein of planning ahead, thoughts are very much soilicited and welcome.
Thanks,
John
Ok guys today they tried a few test placements of the drive train so that they could start refining measurements and exact placement of the motor and transmission mounts. We ran into a "problem", the cross member.
To be specific the 1HZ/H151(H150)/HF1A drive train is 3 inches longer than the B/H41/Split t case drive train that was originally bolted into the cruiser. Remember the H151 and HF1A basically came bolted to the 1HZ that I ordered. The offer I made was really for the 1HZ and I priced my offer accordingly. They basically threw the rest in because no one felt like trying to auction it off separately at that late date ( the night before the auction) in Japan. No one knew what the model numbers were for either the transmission or the tcase until the arrived here in country. As such there was no way for us to measure for length of drive train at the time of the offer and acceptance. It is one of the risks that you run when you are importing stuff and trying to respond to tight schedules etc. Anyway here we are.
There are several options on the table and the garage owner and I would really like input from you guys:
(1) Cut and re-position the crossmember, i.e., move it 3 inches back
(2) Cut the crossmember at some point in the middle, let the t case pass by and fab up a new middle section reconnecting the two sides
(3)Find a different bellhousing, one that is shorter and will work with the new drive train
(4) Sell the H151/HF1A tranny and tcase and buy an H55/ Split t case
Moving the engine forward three inches is out of the question. As Wayne's current build clearly shows the engine positoning putting the 1HZ into a 40 series is already tight. Frankly the engine will go in without too much fuss, again thanks to Waynes nicely detailed write-up.
Let's go through the options in reverse order:
(4) sell the new tranny and t case and replace it with an H55 and split case. Apart from the fact that this would be admitting complete defeat I would be walking into a complete unknown re: the state of the "replacement H55 and split case" . At least with the setup I have now it all came bolted together from the same vehicle where it was running fine before removal and shipment. I have a 1 year guarentee as it sits together right now. All of this ducks the issue of finding an H55 with the right input shaft for the 1HZ. If it doesn't have the shaft then that means having to source one here.
(3) This is an unknown for me (a) if there is a different bellhousing that was 3" shorter and will bolt on to the 1HZ/H151/H150 and (b) again don't know whether or not I could source one here.
(2) I did several searches through MUD and found various references to folks cutting cross members and then later basically "splicing" the cut out middle section such that the splice bends around the new t case etc.
(1) cut and move the cross member. To me this seems the most obvious answer and the most scary. Geometry tells me that the cross member was positioned exactly where it is so that it can give the frame strength while maintaining some flex. Moving the point either forward or backward changes that equation. What I don't know is is that change significant enough to consider some of the other more drastic options. The shop owner is worried if anyone can replicate the strength of the factory welds as the cross member passes through the frame rails and is welded both inside tthe frame and out.
One option that was sugested by a club member here is cut the cross member and move it. When we re-attach it or fab a new one have it pass through the frame rails again at the new location. He suggested welding the cross member into the frame as orginally done but then reinforcing the frame over that weld with 1/2" plate on either side of each frame rail. I think that idea is to reinforce everything at the point of the welds if at the end of the day that is the last concern. Here are a few pics.
Oh BTW if we go with option 1, moving the crossmember, it obviously implies having to move the gas tank as you can see in the pics. That concerns me much less as I can work out a swap for a larger aux tank with another guy which I can mount in the space under the rear of the rig. In that respect I would actually gain a larger tank and some additional range.
I am not wedded to any of these ideas but am leaning for not backtracking and moving the crossmember. I'm hiker who is just getting old enough to truly dislike backtracking if it can at all be avoided. Better to plan ahead well than to roll off and then have to turn around midway. As such, in the vein of planning ahead, thoughts are very much soilicited and welcome.
Thanks,
John
I really don't know.
