A Super-Ultimate 3FE Diagnostics Thread - Let the Battle of Wits Begin (1 Viewer)

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We talked this thing to death at the meeting last night. I'm not convinced your issues aren't in the program loaded by Toyota. I'm still leaning hard toward an emissions calibration if it's not a sensor telling the computer to do something wrong. Theoretically it should be capable of living with the desmog just fine but if the temp sensor is adding confusion, it really could be that simple. If the computer thinks you are at 235 degrees it will adjust differently than at 195 . If your resistance values are off, like we talked, you can add a potentiometer in to adjust them and see if the behavior changes.
 

red66toy

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No, other than conducting the voltage and resistance checks in the FSM. I need to figure out why I am under the specified voltage on VS - E22 at the ECU (plate closed). I got 3.96v and was supposed to get 4-6v. Also on VS - E2 at the ECU (with the measuring plate fully open) I got .48v and was supposed to get .02-.08v. When I conducted the AFM resistance checks (page FI-62 and FI-63) the AFM checked out ok. So, I'm at a loss.
I got almost the exact same readings when I tested my AFM at the ECU last night (trying to hunt down a high idle issue). Did you ever figure out the cause of the voltage errors? I also get the code 22 error, but the sensor and wires pass tests.
 
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E2 and E22 at the ECU connectors are both sensor grounds. I don’t see where the FSM ever has you check continuity from each of them to ground, maybe I missed it in there but it may be worth checking.
 

red66toy

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E2 on the AFM connects directly to E22 on the ECU I believe. No splicing in between as far as I know. I don't recall testing that to ground. E1 goes to ground at the ECU though.
 
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Right, but the E2 at ECU goes to E2 at the TPS, and E22 at the ECU goes to E2 at the AFM. I’m curious if they pass through and get their ground via the ECU or elsewhere.
 
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Yeah, not sure. Is the ECU ground is on the passenger a-pillar?
The wiring diagram I have doesn’t label its location but seems it would be on the passenger A pillar. E01 and E02 off the ECU should go to ground as well (all E pins are grounds). My guess is, E01&E02 provide the ground to the ECU and all the sensor grounds pass through the ECU to these grounds. It would be nice to stumble across a schemo for the ECU.
 

lelandEOD

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Yeah... so... I readjusted the O2 sensor controller from Innovative Industries and now my AFRs are hovering around 13:1 at warm idle. <Face Palm> I literally didn't want to post the resolution to this because I feel like I've lead everyone on an epic goose chase for several weeks. But, I'm prepared to put my ego on the sacrificial altar and take whatever verbal abuse you all deem appropriate.

I still have a stinky exhaust to deal with but a couple local 'cruiser guys have suggested I add a universal catalytic converter to knock down the odor. I'll be trying that out soon.
 

FJ40Jim

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So was the WB guage just reading erroneously?

A universal highflow cat is an excellent idea, especially on an EFI engine since it won't overwhelm the cat like a funky carb'd engine could.
 

60Works

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Does this confirm that O2 sensor placement does not matter? That data point, tested empirically, would be worth all your efforts in terms of value provided to this community. This thread is full of great tech on 3F-E's that hasn't been consolidated previously. It will be a quoted reference most likely.

Thank you for your hard work and for taking the time to document it.
 
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glad to see you figured it out. As a reference, the 22RE exhaust manifold has the o2 sensor flange built in. I don't think the O2 sensor placement matters (too close to the manifold that is).
 

lelandEOD

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I got almost the exact same readings when I tested my AFM at the ECU last night (trying to hunt down a high idle issue). Did you ever figure out the cause of the voltage errors? I also get the code 22 error, but the sensor and wires pass tests.

I'm still getting a couple voltage readings that are out of spec, according to the FSM. I think it would be an interesting experiment to have a bunch of guys conduct the FSM tests to see if others might find similar results, even with error free engines.

I seem to remember some people asking about instrumentation calibration... no reason to not run a CAT these days... how's it driving?

Yes, Will repeatedly suggested that I calibrate the wideband. I performed the calibration when I installed the harness in the truck and figured it was good. I'm not sure why it needed recalibration; I'm going to keep an eye on it for a while and see what happens. It seems to drive fine. I still haven't figured out why my ignition timing is not idling at 12° BTDC like it's supposed to be. So I'm going to keep thinking on that subject.

Does this confirm that O2 sensor placement does not matter? That data point, tested empirically, would be worth all your efforts in terms of value provided to this community. This thread is full of great tech on 3F-E's that hasn't been consolidated previously. It will be a quoted reference most likely.

Thank you for your hard work and for taking the time to document it.

Now that I've calibrated the wideband, I can move the factory O2s back and forth between the two locations on the exhaust pipes to confirm. My assumption would be that it will not change because I saw no difference after I first moved them.
 

4Cruisers

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I'm in the process of temporarily reinstalling the front portion of the '89 FJ62 donor vehicle's exhaust system in my '86 FJ60 (with 3FE transplant) to break in the engine. After that I'll take it to my local custom exhaust shop to have a new section fabricated to go from the exhaust manifolds to the FJ60 catalytic converter. In the process, I'll eliminate where the exhaust pipe from the front bank of cylinders crosses under the frame back to the Y-pipe. I was planning on having the shop keep the oxygen sensors in the FJ62 stock locations relative to the exhaust manifolds, mainly so I don't have to re-do any wiring - the FJ60 has the complete FJ62 wiring harness.

As I get the FJ60 running again (it hasn't been on the road since 1995) this thread will help me if I find any codes or notice any issues with how it runs. The donor vehicle was running fine when I started to tear into it 2-1/2 years ago, plus now it has a new fuel pump, fuel filter, pulsation damper, pressure regulator, throttle position sensor, and cleaned/calibrated injectors.
 
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@LAMBCRUSHER
You said this, "Speedometer kicks out a speed signal, so, yes, speed is a factor. Is your speedo hooked to the cable? Also, you did not mention if you’d inspected the harness..."

How is the speedo cable coming off the tcase and running the speedometer via mechanical linkage (ie the wire spinning in the back of the speedo) affect anything electrical? Where did you get this info?
 

Kleatus

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@LAMBCRUSHER
You said this, "Speedometer kicks out a speed signal, so, yes, speed is a factor. Is your speedo hooked to the cable? Also, you did not mention if you’d inspected the harness..."

How is the speedo cable coming off the tcase and running the speedometer via mechanical linkage (ie the wire spinning in the back of the speedo) affect anything electrical? Where did you get this info?
The cable is mechanical yes, however there is a magnet that spins in the cluster that trips a reed switch to generate the speed signal.
 
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I'm still getting a couple voltage readings that are out of spec, according to the FSM. I think it would be an interesting experiment to have a bunch of guys conduct the FSM tests to see if others might find similar results, even with error free engines.



Yes, Will repeatedly suggested that I calibrate the wideband. I performed the calibration when I installed the harness in the truck and figured it was good. I'm not sure why it needed recalibration; I'm going to keep an eye on it for a while and see what happens. It seems to drive fine. I still haven't figured out why my ignition timing is not idling at 12° BTDC like it's supposed to be. So I'm going to keep thinking on that subject.



Now that I've calibrated the wideband, I can move the factory O2s back and forth between the two locations on the exhaust pipes to confirm. My assumption would be that it will not change because I saw no difference after I first moved them.

Hi Bro,

Quick question, did you solved this? Im facing the same issue with my truck, hard to start, rough idle, from 2k rpm to 3k rpm, you can feel the struggle to pass over, misfire at idle... just like you, my 3fe has been rebuilt almost 2 months ago but since then its facing this troubles. I bought a new TPS but a I know that its out specs because I didnt adjusted as per FSM. Im getting 21 and 22 codes. AFM from cardone (74 20070) installed more than a year ago, 23250 65020 injectors (from 3vz engine)... at despite of the 2 codes, before it ran really good, but now, its getting me crazy. HELP!
 

lelandEOD

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I managed to solve the problem permanently; although not in a way helpful to anyone but me.

I swapped the 3FE for a 1HZ diesel largely because I never successfully solved the very minor running issue faults it was giving me. In my case, it's 3FE - One, Leland - Zero.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help and good luck with your troubleshooting!
 

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