2FE Build Opinions Needed (1 Viewer)

[DickM]

Finally got back to figuring out my "stumbling" problem. Re-plumbing per previous post was a step in the right direction. After a valve adjustment and tracking down a couple of vacuum leaks, my next step was to check timing.

I had ball-parked it on initial start, and the timing light showed 7* BTDC but I now needed to install the jumper between TE1 and E1 and set the timing like a 3FE. The results lead me to reinstalling the dizzy as I could not get enough advance with the jumper wire installed. I was evidently 1 tooth off. This made a huge difference.

I also installed a fuel pressure gauge(temporarily) to get more info on what was happening with the fuel supply.

Test driving and poking around showed that my stumble or dropout was the result of the fuel pressure dropping sharply off. Fuel pressure was also generally pretty variable, and was accompanied by noticeable fuel pump noise when the dropouts occurred.

My conclusion is to replace the fuel pressure regulator and pulsation dampner. They both are original to the donor motor I bought AFAIK, and are a couple of good variables to eliminate at this point.

As always, I rely on your input.

 

[Stumpalama]

Sounds like you are going about this the right way and making good progress. Keep it up.

 

[DickM]

So I got the fuel pressure regulator and pulsation damper from CDan and got them installed. Test drive showed some improvement, but still have the stumble/dropout after everything gets good and hot......... And I mean HOT. During the test drives,when I would jump out, lift the hood and check the fuel pressure gauge hooked in-line at the cold start injector, the engine compartment was cooking- pretty much everything on the driver's side was too hot to touch.

I got a cheap IR thermometer from Home Depot. Headers were over 500 F, and the fuel rail was about 150F...... even the hood spring was too hot too touch......... plus the power steering lines and pump, the ARB compressor mounted on the fender, the aftermarket cruise control, and the relocated coolant overflow bottle after the second battery install were all too hot for my liking.

So, given the consensus here on MUD that the stock 3FE exhaust manifolds flow very well, I decided to get rid of the heat producing headers that were part of the package deal on the 3fe I got for the swap. I posted up and picked up a set of stock exhaust manifolds from member Mel Lowe. I had already gotten heat shields from Georg a while back thinking I would might be able to modify them to work with the headers. Having never seen the heat shields in person, when they arrived it was obvious that this was a stupid idea that ended OK- just goes to show a guy can never have too many parts.

Don't know if the heat is causing the fuel problems, but for me it was an issue that had to be dealt with, so I will report back after the change on my fuel issues.

The silver lining in this is that I spent some time tracing the vacuum tubing with the air intake removed and believe I have that all sorted out now............ Got rid of a bunch of unneeded caps and hoses, and have the charcoal canister VSV, the BVSV, and the fuel pressure VSV plumbed correctly......maybe.

 

[White Stripe]

Headers normally get around 600 degrees, thats normal. The engine compartment being hot is normal. What is the coolant temp when warm?You say you have a stumble or dropout when hot, that is not enough of a description to help you. When does it stumble? As your cruising or accelerating or idling or decelerating? Maybe post a video. Then we can help you.

So I got the fuel pressure regulator and pulsation damper from CDan and got them installed. Test drive showed some improvement, but still have the stumble/dropout after everything gets good and hot......... And I mean HOT. During the test drives,when I would jump out, lift the hood and check the fuel pressure gauge hooked in-line at the cold start injector, the engine compartment was cooking- pretty much everything on the driver's side was too hot to touch.

I got a cheap IR thermometer from Home Depot. Headers were over 500 F, and the fuel rail was about 150F...... even the hood spring was too hot too touch......... plus the power steering lines and pump, the ARB compressor mounted on the fender, the aftermarket cruise control, and the relocated coolant overflow bottle after the second battery install were all too hot for my liking.

So, given the consensus here on MUD that the stock 3FE exhaust manifolds flow very well, I decided to get rid of the heat producing headers that were part of the package deal on the 3fe I got for the swap. I posted up and picked up a set of stock exhaust manifolds from member Mel Lowe. I had already gotten heat shields from Georg a while back thinking I would might be able to modify them to work with the headers. Having never seen the heat shields in person, when they arrived it was obvious that this was a stupid idea that ended OK- just goes to show a guy can never have too many parts.

Don't know if the heat is causing the fuel problems, but for me it was an issue that had to be dealt with, so I will report back after the change on my fuel issues.

The silver lining in this is that I spent some time tracing the vacuum tubing with the air intake removed and believe I have that all sorted out now............ Got rid of a bunch of unneeded caps and hoses, and have the charcoal canister VSV, the BVSV, and the fuel pressure VSV plumbed correctly......maybe.

 

[DickM]

Dropout occurs after driving around for 15-20 minutes, under load. It is a momentary, complete stopping of the engine like the ignition has been shut off. It usually lasts 1-2 seconds, and then resumes "normal" operation.

Block and coolant temps checked out fine.

The new manifolds are going in today, so depending on how much exhaust pipe modification is required, I will try and post up any new info soon.

FYI, as part of this process the ICS and AFM checked out OK per the FSM, but the TPS needed to be adjusted.

 

[DickM]

Stock exhaust manifolds significantly lowered the engine compartment temperatures. I don't really think it had anything to do with the fuel issues, but it makes me happier for the long term and gets things closer to the temps that all the systems were designed to operate within.

Next test drive had similar results as the last. Ran great for 15 minutes or so, then started cutting out completely, and losing power. The fuel pressure gauge shows pressures dropping, bouncing back up, repeat a few times, and finally going to 0....... and staying there.

Threw a strap on the truck and towed it a couple of blocks to the house. Found that the gas tank was highly pressurized, so did the charcoal canister hose swap after being unable to get it to clear with compressed air. Also got a 51 code, so I pulled the TPS again, cleaned the return spring properly this time and reinstalled.

Fuel pump test at diagnostic port showed no power to the fuel pump. The EFI electric pump is powered from the battery, through a 30A auto reset breaker to a relay which is triggered by the ECU fuel pump wire. The breaker was tripped and would not reset. It was replaced, and fuel pump test was OK.

At this point, I suspected that the dropout (similar to the ignition switch being cut off and then back on) seemed electrical in nature and could be due to the breaker on the power supply to the fuel pump being defective. The contact points showed arcing and discoloration, which made me think that the Bosch fuel pump (which at this point would make a lot of additional noise when fuel pressure problems started) might be drawing too much and working the breaker to failure. I also have been worried all along about the 72# pressure that the pump generates being reduced to the 45# the fuel rail likes.

So, having the in line Summit electric pump(45# pressure max) I had originally planned on installing on the frame rail sitting in a box, I decided to disconnect the in-tank Bosch pump and temporarily install the Summit pump still using the surge tank as a fuel source. Reconnect the electrical and change two lines and it was ready to go......

 

[DickM]

Next installment of the ongoing saga.
Summit pump produces 40# steady on the gauge. 22 miles without a problem and 1/4 mile from the house the rpm's drop and I lose power. Fuel pressure gauge say 10# and the fuel pump is singing. A squeeze of the fuel rail return hose feels empty and makes no change in the fuel pressure readings-if I do it when the truck is running right the hose feels full and the pressure will jump up considerably. No pressure build up in the fuel tank when I pull the cap- just a contented sigh. No diagnostic codes.

My conclusions- both pumps work to begin with but are eventually starved of fuel (fuel pressure drop, pump noise).
Why I do not know.

I really want the in surge tank fuel pump system to work. After getting more info from the surge tank supplier, I am going to try again. The main change will be to remount the surge tank horizontally, and make some changes to the plumbing of the lines. The new bracket is fabbed and painted, so stay tuned for another test drive tomorrow.

The thing keeping me going (besides being stubborn) is that when it runs, it is sweet.

 

[DickM]

The re-orientation of the surge tank to horizontal, and the re-routing of the mechanical pump return line to the "upper" original 60 tank seems to have resolved the stumble/cutout issues. I have driven a couple of hundred miles including some mild off-road to access a hike. Everything seems to be working "okay" except...........

I do not trust this system. It is not performing consistently. Idle is up and then down. It stalled out once, and cranked and cranked. I restarted by rolling down the dirt hill and popping the clutch. (No problems the rest of the trip.) No codes are showing from the computer.

My main concern at this point is reliability as I am happy with the performance aspect of the build. The wife and I will be spending a good bit of time by ourselves in some remote areas, so I am rethinking the entire fuel supply system. Currently, the original 60 tank drains into the aux tank and seems to pressurizes the supply and return for the mech. pump until the original tank is empty. The only fuel sender is mounted in the aux tank and reads full until the entire contents of original 60 tank is used. This is not the setup for good info or reliability. It must have worked before I got the truck, but it is sketchy now especially with the fuel injection fuel supply issues I have encountered.

In the mean time, the fill tube on the radiator has started leaking, so that will be addressed.

More to follow.

 

[DickM]

Radiator re-soldered and installed.

Next version of the fuel supply saga as follows:

Return the stock tank to stock plumbing-get rid of the mickey mouse auxillary tank set up. The mechanical pump fuel supply will be plumbed as Toyota designed it. The mech pump still feeds the surge tank/EFI pump.
The aux tank will now fill the stock tank by a electric transfer pump controlled by in-cab switches and a flow switch.
If this doesn't work then the next move is to source a FJ62 tank/bracket/ pump and give that a try.
The stock tank is dropped and a new fuel sender will be here tomorrow , so I should have test info soon.

 

[DickM]

Fuel supply changes as outlined above have helped enough to get the motor to overheat during the first "freeway" drive. It still has fuel pump noise after driving that is not present at start up.
A new Aisan fan clutch is installed.
At this point, with reliability being the primary concern, I am done reinventing the wheel for the fuel supply issue. The final design will be as follows:
Stock FJ62 tank, bracket and fuel pump. We were in southern CO this weekend visiting friends, and detoured through Salida to visit Merl at Classic Cruisers and pick up a tank and pump bracket in good condition. The fuel pump, sock, gasket etc. were ordered from Cdan this morning.
The auxiliary tank will fill the stock tank via transfer pump as outlined above.
The lesson for me in all of this is that the more you know about the vehicle before you start changing stuff, the better off you will be.

 

[gregnash]

Patience will pay off for you @DickM.... Hope that this last iteration gets things handled so you can actually enjoy the truck instead of more months of troubleshooting.

 

[DickM]

So, I am happy to report (belatedly) that the last round of changes have fixed my fuel issues. The truck starts, idles as it should and runs flawlessly-at last

There is still a long "to do" list- plumb and wire transfer tank system, finalize cruise control, charge AC system, rebuild/mount 8274, modify rear bumper swing out and so on, BUT it is a lot more fun working on a truck that runs!

Thanks to you guys for info and support.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Just read this thread and subscribing to it.

I too, want a 2FE in my FJ60, but it's a long term project. Very long term, though I have all the parts except the FJ62 tank and pump.

Very nice that after years of planning and building, you now have a reliable and good running truck.

 

[PabloCruise]

Here is the diagram and a picture of the install.

What filter are you running? I do not see electric pump in this image? Perhaps I should read further...

 

[PabloCruise]

Anyway, I have an in-tank pump..........it is just in a really small tank

Ah, this is why I did not see it. Thanks. I have an inline pump back at the tank on my 55 for my 3FE, it seems to work okay.

 

[elripster]

Good deal. When my 3fe finally goes I will design new accessory brackets to keep the 3fe accessories on my 2fe. I do hope that bridge is a long ways out though.

 

[PabloCruise]

Finally got back to figuring out my "stumbling" problem. Re-plumbing per previous post was a step in the right direction. After a valve adjustment and tracking down a couple of vacuum leaks, my next step was to check timing.

I had ball-parked it on initial start, and the timing light showed 7* BTDC but I now needed to install the jumper between TE1 and E1 and set the timing like a 3FE. The results lead me to reinstalling the dizzy as I could not get enough advance with the jumper wire installed. I was evidently 1 tooth off. This made a huge difference.

I also installed a fuel pressure gauge(temporarily) to get more info on what was happening with the fuel supply.

Test driving and poking around showed that my stumble or dropout was the result of the fuel pressure dropping sharply off. Fuel pressure was also generally pretty variable, and was accompanied by noticeable fuel pump noise when the dropouts occurred.

My conclusion is to replace the fuel pressure regulator and pulsation dampner. They both are original to the donor motor I bought AFAIK, and are a couple of good variables to eliminate at this point.

As always, I rely on your input.

How did you set up your fuel pressure gauge? Curious...

 

[PabloCruise]

So, I am happy to report (belatedly) that the last round of changes have fixed my fuel issues. The truck starts, idles as it should and runs flawlessly-at last

There is still a long "to do" list- plumb and wire transfer tank system, finalize cruise control, charge AC system, rebuild/mount 8274, modify rear bumper swing out and so on, BUT it is a lot more fun working on a truck that runs!

Thanks to you guys for info and support.

Glad to hear that you got things working. Do you have a new fuel system schematic? In your original drawing, I was wondering why you didn't route your return off the rail back to the original tank or long-range tank?

 

[DickM]

I too, want a 2FE in my FJ60, but it's a long term project. Very long term, though I have all the parts except the FJ62 tank and pump

The tank was pretty easy to find, and the fuel pump and sock were new ones from CDan. The hard to find part is the fuel pump bracket that the fuel pump mounts in and attaches to the tank. I got a pretty good one, but it had pin hole in both hard lines. I ended up using compression fittings to connect the cut off bracket hard lines with clamped barb fittings to soft fuel line to the hard lines on the frame rail.

 

[DickM]

How did you set up your fuel pressure gauge? Curious

There is a post on MUD that I can't seem to find right now that details the parts. The basic set up was a cheap Harbor Freight gauge, a section of fuel line, and a longer then stock banjo bolt and barbed fitting that you add on top of the cold start injector.