- Thread starter
- #61
Ok - see if you can find one Chamba. Sister Julie is ready to be the middleman, er, ah person!
Build 1st FJ40, '76 - SMOKEY - Puttin’ her Back Together
- Thread starter Vae Victus
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Ok - see if you can find one Chamba. Sister Julie is ready to be the middleman, er, ah person!
- Thread starter
- #62
Hmm, very good advice. I'll have to read up on harness replacement threads and how hard that is. I may just do the entire harness as the electrical is very poor currently.
I keep seeing old harnesses for sale, vs buying new ones. Seems like new would be the way to go. I've seen the "Painless" brand harness.
- Thread starter
- #63
Just lift more weightsAnd definitely keep the "School bus" wheel - even with Power Steering. It's part of the look!
In all seriousness though - here is my thread-in-progress. First couple posts pretty well outline what not to do:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/719785-next-project-fixing-po-power-steering-debacle.html
In theory this is how a Saginaw Power Steering setup is done, but the execution by the PO was terrible. This has been done literally dozens of times with much better results.
If I was starting from scratch (manual steering) and I would probably have done the Toyota Mini-Truck PS conversion, since I don't plan on running anything larger than 33 inch tires. This conversion is apparently pretty underpowered for moving big tires when off-road.
Another good alternative to Saginaw, in terms of raw steering power, is the power steering from a 60-series cruiser. This is nice because you don't have to bore a hole in your front cross member, and you stick to all Toyota parts. There's waklthroughs in the FAQ about all these different conversions.
That said, even my ricketty-@ss, leaking saginaw nightmare gives me the ability to turn the wheels with virtually zero effort - we're talking steering with your pinky - so if hitting the gym is out of the question, power steering is probably one of best upgrades you can do to a 40.
Honestly, unless the manual box is on its way out, or the steering system is near catastrophic failure, this should probably be a long way down the list of fixesMine just took priority because it 1. it leaks like crazy and 2. it's downright dangerous.
I'll tell you, with broken ribs, it is definitely hard to turn right now.
Is Saginaw conversion using new materials? I assume a 60 conversion uses old parts. I haven't seen a thread on that conversion, so I assume it is less common (but I haven't looked yet). Love the fact that there are 10+ years of posts here.
My only reason to move it up is so I can teach the 16YO and soon the 13YO to drive a stick and let them focus on shifting, not steering AND shifting.
Hey VV,
Well, I retract my gym statement on account of the broken ribs
As for parts: Define "new." I just ordered up a "new" Saginaw box from Autozone yesterday, but technically, it's a "remanufactured" part. Any major auto part is. But it should work like new. Because the Saginaw box in question was used in virtually every full size GM car, and some jeeps, from the late 60's through early 80's, they are pretty prolific, thus easier (and cheaper) to find than the 60-series box.
Because this swap is so common, a lot of IH8MUD vendors sell kits of new parts necessary for the conversion. This includes your steering shaft, u joints, special 1/2 SAE, 1/2 Metric drag link, the appropriate drag link ends, and the mounting plates.
So, long story short, yep, aside from a refurbed gearbox, you could pretty much replace everything from the wheel to the tie rod with new parts. Tie rod ends are still available too, if you want to overhaul the whole steering system.
Kurt (Cruiser Outfitters), Georg (Valley Hybrids), and Jim (Downey) are all a wealth of parts and knowledge, and frequent the forum.
Well, I retract my gym statement on account of the broken ribs
As for parts: Define "new." I just ordered up a "new" Saginaw box from Autozone yesterday, but technically, it's a "remanufactured" part. Any major auto part is. But it should work like new. Because the Saginaw box in question was used in virtually every full size GM car, and some jeeps, from the late 60's through early 80's, they are pretty prolific, thus easier (and cheaper) to find than the 60-series box.
Because this swap is so common, a lot of IH8MUD vendors sell kits of new parts necessary for the conversion. This includes your steering shaft, u joints, special 1/2 SAE, 1/2 Metric drag link, the appropriate drag link ends, and the mounting plates.
So, long story short, yep, aside from a refurbed gearbox, you could pretty much replace everything from the wheel to the tie rod with new parts. Tie rod ends are still available too, if you want to overhaul the whole steering system.
Kurt (Cruiser Outfitters), Georg (Valley Hybrids), and Jim (Downey) are all a wealth of parts and knowledge, and frequent the forum.
- Thread starter
- #65
As are you sir. Thank you.
For what it's worth, I did the 60 series swap on my hj47 and loved it. Two of my friends swapped to 60 series from Saginaw after driving my troopy and my cousin put 60 series on his '73 fj40 after driving my troopy.
In my opinion, the 60 is better-suited to a short wheel base because it takes more turns lock-to-lock than the Saginaw (therefore less twitchy) and it does not boost as much as the Saginaw so you still have a bit of road feel. You also do not have to cut a 3" hole in your front cross member to fit the 60 series box and you can use the factory lines from a 60 rather than having lines made with metric on one side (if you use a Toyota pump) and standard on the other.
In my opinion, the 60 is better-suited to a short wheel base because it takes more turns lock-to-lock than the Saginaw (therefore less twitchy) and it does not boost as much as the Saginaw so you still have a bit of road feel. You also do not have to cut a 3" hole in your front cross member to fit the 60 series box and you can use the factory lines from a 60 rather than having lines made with metric on one side (if you use a Toyota pump) and standard on the other.
Not all saginaws are created equal. You want a 4-turn, 4-bolt box. They are not 'rare', per se, but you want to get the right one. I know for a fact that a '76 Jeep J20 uses that box. They are $175ish at Napa plus a core charge. The Napa rebuild looked better than the O'Reilly rebuild for a little more money and I had both in my hands on the same day.
Good point! I just picked up a j20 box - hasn't arrived yet, but it should be 4 turns. Although I have heard several people here say 3.5 turn boxes aren't really that bad...it's when you get down to 2-3 turn boxes that changing lanes gets scary!
- Thread starter
- #69
Hey VV,
Well, I retract my gym statement on account of the broken ribs
And here is the reason for the broken ribs. Happened on the way to look at the FJ40.
Dude...
Oh man! I was following your other post when that happened! That sucks, dude - glad it was just a couple of ribs, and you still got a 40 out of the deal
- Thread starter
- #73
Oh man! I was following your other post when that happened! That sucks, dude - glad it was just a couple of ribs, and you still got a 40 out of the deal
Sorry to be so, uhm, on display with the wreck. I guess it is kinda dramatic looking and since I'm ok, it's always interesting to look at carnage. The other thread kinda died there, so I thought I'd record it here and let the other thread fade away.
Anyhoo, back to FJ40s!
So, I was looking a bit closer tonight at the wiring under the hood. I've yet to find anything that IS hooked up. Check these out.
Coiled up positive wires.
Both negatives. Loose, not even covered.
Two of several unattached connections. Perhaps this is why very little on the dash works.
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- Thread starter
- #74
Cracked connector, rotting hose.
Master and slave both look like this.
What is this? One of the horns right? Just hanging loose.
Master and slave both look like this.
What is this? One of the horns right? Just hanging loose.
- Thread starter
- #75
What is this? It looks pretty bad. Is this steering linkage?
And this - is this the thermostat? It is not even hooked up.
And this - is this the thermostat? It is not even hooked up.
- Thread starter
- #76
Although Fast Eddie points out that you can find a 4 turn Saginaw box, it does sound like there are some additional advantages to using an old 60 box. Less cutting, improved road feel, a bit less power (again, not building a ditch hawg here), factory lines possible.
Hmmm, and it sounds like a challenge. (I don't have any challenges on this truck so let's take one on!
)
- Thread starter
- #77
Fascinating. Had no idea everything was rebuilt like this. Love all the goodies I'm learning.
I took the opposite approach on my 4 turn box. I bought the cheapest rebuild I could find, sight unseen - since neither NAPA or AutoZone had them in stock. I figure since my box will be bolted on this time, instead of welded to the frame 
I'll be able to swap it much more easily if it goes bad quickly.
I completely agree - I think you should go with the 60-series swap, although it looks like there might be a power box attached to your linkage already?? I'm not sure what you steering linkage is running into in that one picture...The old manual linkages mount up to the steering gear in the corner of the frame and front cross member. You might have a dead mini truck or OEM power steering box already mounted there...but I'll let someone else weigh in...
My Clutch slave/master looked like yours, as does my brake master. My clutch slave failed and bled out within a couple weeks of owning the truck. When you replace one clutch cylinder, replace both, as one usually isn't far behind the other. I haven't done my brake MC yet, but it's on the list. At the very least, bleed the old fluid out of both systems and replace with fresh. Brake fluid is pretty hygroscopic - which means over time, the fluid tends to attract water, which sits in your hard lines and rots them from the inside out - you wont know how rotted they are until they fail and you lose the brakes, and you've had enough run-ins with trees lately.
Looks like you have about a quarter million electrical gremlins to work out. Enjoy!
I'll be able to swap it much more easily if it goes bad quickly. I completely agree - I think you should go with the 60-series swap, although it looks like there might be a power box attached to your linkage already?? I'm not sure what you steering linkage is running into in that one picture...The old manual linkages mount up to the steering gear in the corner of the frame and front cross member. You might have a dead mini truck or OEM power steering box already mounted there...but I'll let someone else weigh in...
My Clutch slave/master looked like yours, as does my brake master. My clutch slave failed and bled out within a couple weeks of owning the truck. When you replace one clutch cylinder, replace both, as one usually isn't far behind the other. I haven't done my brake MC yet, but it's on the list. At the very least, bleed the old fluid out of both systems and replace with fresh. Brake fluid is pretty hygroscopic - which means over time, the fluid tends to attract water, which sits in your hard lines and rots them from the inside out - you wont know how rotted they are until they fail and you lose the brakes, and you've had enough run-ins with trees lately.
Looks like you have about a quarter million electrical gremlins to work out. Enjoy!
I think from memory that the 60 box is five turns but I'm driving my ram today so will have to verify later. To be fair, I don't know which Saginaw box my mate had before he swapped but be still raves about how much he likes the 60 box.
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- #80
Ok, going to keep a running total spent on my $4K "bargain" 76FJ40.
$4000 - initial cost
$526 - delivery fee
$290 - trollhole carb
$20 - iH8Mud support
$65 - new starter
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$4901 as of 3 days in.
$4000 - initial cost
$526 - delivery fee
$290 - trollhole carb
$20 - iH8Mud support
$65 - new starter
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$4901 as of 3 days in.