OK here we go, I'l be breif. Have had my HJ61 with 12HT diesel for 12 yrs and fitted Ironman first up, then changed um as they were too hard and one of the rears sagged. Installed OME and never looked back, please use someone who knows their s!@t as when they installed mine they chose from several spring packs to get the vehicle riding level as several different floor pans sit differently on the road. They have been in for about 6 yrs now, I tow, camp, load up and work her and no sags squeeks, rattles or other trouble. So in short stump up the cash and do it Mate it will be the making of the old girl. Regards Johnny.
Iron Man vs OME Dakar... (1 Viewer)
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OK here we go, I'l be breif. Have had my HJ61 with 12HT diesel for 12 yrs and fitted Ironman first up, then changed um as they were too hard and one of the rears sagged. Installed OME and never looked back, please use someone who knows their s!@t as when they installed mine they chose from several spring packs to get the vehicle riding level as several different floor pans sit differently on the road. They have been in for about 6 yrs now, I tow, camp, load up and work her and no sags squeeks, rattles or other trouble. So in short stump up the cash and do it Mate it will be the making of the old girl. Regards Johnny.
OK here we go, I'l be breif. Have had my HJ61 with 12HT diesel for 12 yrs and fitted Ironman first up, then changed um as they were too hard and one of the rears sagged. Installed OME and never looked back, please use someone who knows their s!@t as when they installed mine they chose from several spring packs to get the vehicle riding level as several different floor pans sit differently on the road. They have been in for about 6 yrs now, I tow, camp, load up and work her and no sags squeeks, rattles or other trouble. So in short stump up the cash and do it Mate it will be the making of the old girl. Regards Johnny.
I believe I have posted before in this thread but have not looked through it. That said I have the Ironman "C" spring full kit. The C springs are stiff, I mean real stiff, so maybe that is what the problem is??? Here is what is happening...the poly bushing disintegrate. I am on the second complete set of new poly bushings and they are slowly disintegrating themselves. This truck is used as a daily driver and I can't remember the last time it has been off road other than forest service roads so this makes no sense except for the bushings cannot handle the stiff springs. But you would think that Ironman would design the bushings to handle their own springs. What would you all do?
Also, I need to know if the OME poly bushings will fit the Ironman suspension? I would rather try that than completely replace them again with the same Ironman bushings. And I don't want to replace a perfectly good suspension system with OME if I don't have to, but this is crazy. The Ironman system I have is about 3-4 years old and already needs a third set of poly bushings. What to do? Thanks
Also, I need to know if the OME poly bushings will fit the Ironman suspension? I would rather try that than completely replace them again with the same Ironman bushings. And I don't want to replace a perfectly good suspension system with OME if I don't have to, but this is crazy. The Ironman system I have is about 3-4 years old and already needs a third set of poly bushings. What to do? Thanks
I use OME bushes in OME springs with Iron Man Shackles. No problem.
My thinking worked like this:
OME say you can use stock Toyota bushes with their springs and shackles.
Iron Man (IM) say you can use stock Toyota bushes with their springs and shackles.
Thus: . . .
If OME bushes = stock Toyota bushes (in dimensions) and Iron Man = stock Toyota bushes (in dimensions)
Then OME bushes = Iron Man bushes ( in dimensions)
So I think you can use any of above mentioned bushes depending on you preference in perceived quality and acceptable price.
Did you grease the bushes every so often as indicated by the manufacturer?
Perhaps look into removing a leaf from the pack if they are so hard?
My thinking worked like this:
OME say you can use stock Toyota bushes with their springs and shackles.
Iron Man (IM) say you can use stock Toyota bushes with their springs and shackles.
Thus: . . .
If OME bushes = stock Toyota bushes (in dimensions) and Iron Man = stock Toyota bushes (in dimensions)
Then OME bushes = Iron Man bushes ( in dimensions)
So I think you can use any of above mentioned bushes depending on you preference in perceived quality and acceptable price.
Did you grease the bushes every so often as indicated by the manufacturer?
Perhaps look into removing a leaf from the pack if they are so hard?
Thanks Petoors, glad to know the OME bushes will probably work. Yes I have greased them every few months since new so I don't understand why the bushes keep falling apart. Hopefully the OME's will last. And good idea on removing a leaf, I will look into that when I replace the bushings
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Just now ordered a full set of bushings from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters and they will be shipped today!...He and is company are simply the best in customer service. Highly recommended!
On their way, you have tracking number in your inbox. Thanks again!
I chose the Iron man path as I could not deal with having the stink bug gangsta lean look and was really on a budget. Turned out fine.
@Wallygator
Sounds like you are sorted.
Wish I had access to Cruiser Outfitters here in my corner of the globe. Only ever read good things about them. Top notch Service.
On removing a leave . . .
I know/think in OME packs it is normally the 3rd leaf from the top (longest leaf is NR 1)
The 1st and 2nd leaf wraps around the shackles.
I am not sure how the Iron Man pack looks and how many leafs is in the pack.
Try and get more info on that. I am sure Kurt will have the knowledge.
@ravenplague
Iron Man is also good. Friends of mine run it on their 60's and love it.
You obviosly have the right sport/medium/heavy spring set for you car's weight/application.
Perhaps @Wallygator got a heavy duty set that is to hard for his application.
If OME is done correctly there is no stinkbug stance or "cruiser lean".
My 62 does not have any lean.
I run OME leaf-packs and bushes on Iron Man Shackles. The OME grease-able shackles was just to rich for my budget.
Sounds like you are sorted.
Wish I had access to Cruiser Outfitters here in my corner of the globe. Only ever read good things about them. Top notch Service.
On removing a leave . . .
I know/think in OME packs it is normally the 3rd leaf from the top (longest leaf is NR 1)
The 1st and 2nd leaf wraps around the shackles.
I am not sure how the Iron Man pack looks and how many leafs is in the pack.
Try and get more info on that. I am sure Kurt will have the knowledge.
@ravenplague
Iron Man is also good. Friends of mine run it on their 60's and love it.
You obviosly have the right sport/medium/heavy spring set for you car's weight/application.
Perhaps @Wallygator got a heavy duty set that is to hard for his application.
If OME is done correctly there is no stinkbug stance or "cruiser lean".
My 62 does not have any lean.
I run OME leaf-packs and bushes on Iron Man Shackles. The OME grease-able shackles was just to rich for my budget.
Has anybody thought about Terrain Tamer suspension? I am probably going this route; this thread left me confused and doubtful with OME and Ironman. I know Onur, "Beno" is happy with the Terrain Tamer he had installed on his Cruiser, and he also sells Terrain Tamer. When I pull the trigger I am buying from Onur.
Terrain Tamer is an Aussie manufactured spring. They were made by Dobinsons Spring when I had mine in the 90's. They still may be.
Georg of Valley Hybrids would know , @orangefj45 . OME manufactures springs in the Aussie market only for the Aussie market .There are rumors that Dobinsons makes the leaf packs for OME in the Aussie market also. This has something to do with Aussie import rules/costs, etc.
The OME springs for export are manufactured in the eastern rim. Whether they compare, apples to apples, I can't say. Someone would have to import a set from Australia today and test them. I had Australian OME springs in the 90's and they were not the same as the Dakars today.
OMEs claim to fame back then was the use of virgin BHP spring steel which according to off road racers I worked with in the 80's , was the best in the world. Safari from Manafre, Specter, BDS and many other house brands are built by Standen of Canada. In this "global" market it's
hard to make consistent quality claims since manufacturers seem to be more willing to switch suppliers to save money. The constant battle to
keep consumers happy by offering cheaper and cheaper prices can only lead to cheaper and cheaper quality. If you want the best you'll need to do a lot of research. Beginning with the base materials. Are they built from recycled or virgin metals? What is the country or origin for the materials? etc. Don't expect a bargain on a quality part. For that you could just shop Oreilly or JC Whitney
Georg of Valley Hybrids would know , @orangefj45 . OME manufactures springs in the Aussie market only for the Aussie market .There are rumors that Dobinsons makes the leaf packs for OME in the Aussie market also. This has something to do with Aussie import rules/costs, etc.
The OME springs for export are manufactured in the eastern rim. Whether they compare, apples to apples, I can't say. Someone would have to import a set from Australia today and test them. I had Australian OME springs in the 90's and they were not the same as the Dakars today.
OMEs claim to fame back then was the use of virgin BHP spring steel which according to off road racers I worked with in the 80's , was the best in the world. Safari from Manafre, Specter, BDS and many other house brands are built by Standen of Canada. In this "global" market it's
hard to make consistent quality claims since manufacturers seem to be more willing to switch suppliers to save money. The constant battle to
keep consumers happy by offering cheaper and cheaper prices can only lead to cheaper and cheaper quality. If you want the best you'll need to do a lot of research. Beginning with the base materials. Are they built from recycled or virgin metals? What is the country or origin for the materials? etc. Don't expect a bargain on a quality part. For that you could just shop Oreilly or JC Whitney
wardharris
SILVER Star
Well said.
this is not a cut on OME. I suspect their decision to manufacture outside of Australia
was made to continue strong sales in the USA. The US market is primarily a 90% street miles
market. Makings certain compromises to appease the American buyers was very smart.
We as American want two things most, instant delivery and best pricing. This means providing
a product a vendor can shelf in inventory. As a manufacturer myself , I can't stock ten of everything
I make. I don't have the space. ARB made a choice that dropped the wholesale nearly in half. Vendors could now better afford inventory. The compromises they made were inconsequential to most buyers.
The list of things they did to maximize production efficiency and hold costs down won't affect most buyers. Since most miles are on the highway, engineering was leaned to that end . Maximum deflection and frequency aren't of primary concern on the street and are more costly to tune in.
Deflection can actually be a detriment on the highway. The end result was a durable product at
a value price with predictable results. .....now if they'd only scrap the eyelet sleeve
was made to continue strong sales in the USA. The US market is primarily a 90% street miles
market. Makings certain compromises to appease the American buyers was very smart.
We as American want two things most, instant delivery and best pricing. This means providing
a product a vendor can shelf in inventory. As a manufacturer myself , I can't stock ten of everything
I make. I don't have the space. ARB made a choice that dropped the wholesale nearly in half. Vendors could now better afford inventory. The compromises they made were inconsequential to most buyers.
The list of things they did to maximize production efficiency and hold costs down won't affect most buyers. Since most miles are on the highway, engineering was leaned to that end . Maximum deflection and frequency aren't of primary concern on the street and are more costly to tune in.
Deflection can actually be a detriment on the highway. The end result was a durable product at
a value price with predictable results. .....now if they'd only scrap the eyelet sleeve
wardharris
SILVER Star
Again, well said.
I wonder what the highway mileage percentage is for Australian rigs....
I wonder what the highway mileage percentage is for Australian rigs....
I doubt it's nearly like ours for leaf sprung trucks. Even Toyota knows you build leaf sprung trucks for
extended use on rough terrain. That's why the Aussies still get the 105s and the solid axle Hilux.
Last I checked there were 900,000 km of maintained roadway and only 30~35% was paved
extended use on rough terrain. That's why the Aussies still get the 105s and the solid axle Hilux.
Last I checked there were 900,000 km of maintained roadway and only 30~35% was paved
Couple notes:
The import OME Dakar springs are absolutely used throughout Aus, same manufacture and spec as the stuff we get in the US. For example the Expeditions7 fleet which circled the globe, ran on OME Dakars, 7 continents, ~200k combined miles of fully-loaded travel across a variety of terrain including some of Aus's toughest outback (see Canning Stock Route), zero failures. Vehicles have run the Baja 1000 with OME products, pretty grueling test of their components and they finished (the first class champion Lexus LX570 ran some OME suspension components). Can't think of better tests than that?
While OME and TT leaf springs were all made in Aus at one time, none are to my knowledge today. I know OME, Dob, King and TT make their coil springs in Aus to this day, but neither OME or TT claim their leaf springs are from Aus. Dob does make "some" leaf applications in Aus. As for periphrial suspension components (shackles, pins, bushings, shocks, etc), OME still manufacures a great deal of their suspensions parts in Australia (shackles, pins and shocks for example) while I know TT uses an well known India manufacture for many of their shackles and bushings. Quality is all about the control and inspection process.
I don't know much about Ironmans place of origin but from what I was told by the previous IM rep and reps from the other Aussie brands, they do zero manufacturing in the Aus. I can tell you we've pulled some pretty sad IM products off of customer vehicles, such as failed caster correction bushings that were ~6 months old and let the truck handling dangerously. The sleeves had completely separated from the bushing itself.
We've been selling/installing/running OME suspensions for over 20 years now. I was as nervous as anyone when they switched from OME to Dakars, in fact I personally bought the remainder stock of all of the original springs! Fast forward 11 years now and we see less than or the same number of Dakar warranties as we did the original OME springs. The spring eye inserts did have some press-fitment issues right off the bat but the logic was sound and we've had zero calls about those in ~5 years now?
How much highway do Australians see? Well, that is a tough question. Given 85% of their population is in major urban areas, it's a ton of pavement to get to the "Outback". I've crossed Australia several times now by vehicle and we did that on approx 50% off-road, much of that off-road being brutal corrugated roads that shake fillings out!
The import OME Dakar springs are absolutely used throughout Aus, same manufacture and spec as the stuff we get in the US. For example the Expeditions7 fleet which circled the globe, ran on OME Dakars, 7 continents, ~200k combined miles of fully-loaded travel across a variety of terrain including some of Aus's toughest outback (see Canning Stock Route), zero failures. Vehicles have run the Baja 1000 with OME products, pretty grueling test of their components and they finished (the first class champion Lexus LX570 ran some OME suspension components). Can't think of better tests than that?
While OME and TT leaf springs were all made in Aus at one time, none are to my knowledge today. I know OME, Dob, King and TT make their coil springs in Aus to this day, but neither OME or TT claim their leaf springs are from Aus. Dob does make "some" leaf applications in Aus. As for periphrial suspension components (shackles, pins, bushings, shocks, etc), OME still manufacures a great deal of their suspensions parts in Australia (shackles, pins and shocks for example) while I know TT uses an well known India manufacture for many of their shackles and bushings. Quality is all about the control and inspection process.
I don't know much about Ironmans place of origin but from what I was told by the previous IM rep and reps from the other Aussie brands, they do zero manufacturing in the Aus. I can tell you we've pulled some pretty sad IM products off of customer vehicles, such as failed caster correction bushings that were ~6 months old and let the truck handling dangerously. The sleeves had completely separated from the bushing itself.
We've been selling/installing/running OME suspensions for over 20 years now. I was as nervous as anyone when they switched from OME to Dakars, in fact I personally bought the remainder stock of all of the original springs! Fast forward 11 years now and we see less than or the same number of Dakar warranties as we did the original OME springs. The spring eye inserts did have some press-fitment issues right off the bat but the logic was sound and we've had zero calls about those in ~5 years now?
How much highway do Australians see? Well, that is a tough question. Given 85% of their population is in major urban areas, it's a ton of pavement to get to the "Outback". I've crossed Australia several times now by vehicle and we did that on approx 50% off-road, much of that off-road being brutal corrugated roads that shake fillings out!
[
I admit info is vague on production locations. Most of my recent info is from a shock?suspension manufacturer I buy from in Australia.
Kurt what do you know about this info off an Aussie site...made in USA?
ARB CS020R 4x4 Accessories OME Old Man EMU Leaf Spring New
Product Detail(s):
I admit info is vague on production locations. Most of my recent info is from a shock?suspension manufacturer I buy from in Australia.
Kurt what do you know about this info off an Aussie site...made in USA?
ARB CS020R 4x4 Accessories OME Old Man EMU Leaf Spring New
Product Detail(s):
- Brand : ARB
- Manufacturer Part Number : CS020R
- Country of Origin : USA
- Warranty : Yes
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It even gets more confusing when you're shopping for Land cruiser springs over there..EBAY Australia
Item specifics
Condition: New
Manufacturer Part Number: CS002F Interchange Part Number: ARB_CS002F
UPC: 9332018022387 wUnderCarParts Call Center: Toll Free Number 888-986-3373
Country/Region of Manufacture: United States Brand: ARB
Warranty: Yes
Item specifics
Condition: New
Manufacturer Part Number: CS005F Interchange Part Number: ARB_CS005F
UPC: 9332018022455 wUnderCarParts Call Center: Toll Free Number 888-986-3373
Country/Region of Manufacture: United States Brand: ARB
Warranty: Yes
I'm pretty sure OME isn't being built here. Maybe we need someone from Australia to chime in. Why would OME be selling product over there
listing country of manufacture as the USA? Maybe a import tax thing?
Item specifics
Condition: New
Manufacturer Part Number: CS002F Interchange Part Number: ARB_CS002F
UPC: 9332018022387 wUnderCarParts Call Center: Toll Free Number 888-986-3373
Country/Region of Manufacture: United States Brand: ARB
Warranty: Yes
Item specifics
Condition: New
Manufacturer Part Number: CS005F Interchange Part Number: ARB_CS005F
UPC: 9332018022455 wUnderCarParts Call Center: Toll Free Number 888-986-3373
Country/Region of Manufacture: United States Brand: ARB
Warranty: Yes
I'm pretty sure OME isn't being built here. Maybe we need someone from Australia to chime in. Why would OME be selling product over there
listing country of manufacture as the USA? Maybe a import tax thing?
ARB has a very, very small amount of parts made in North America (LED lights are made by Rigid and their Steering Dampers are made to OME spec by Monroe in North America).
I'm 110% confident that the CS002F/5F you cited are NOT made in the US and what you are seeing is simply one of their vendors (wUnderCarParts which is a US based company) listing them as such in their database, nothing telling there. They likely source them from ARB USA and thus put USA for any and all of the parts... they likely have no clue what a leaf spring is let alone where it is made.
The info really isn't that vague, call and ask. I've spoken at length with ARB and Dobinson about their manufacture locations, my notes above stand. I've been to ARB, Dobinson and Don Kyatt (Terrain Taimer) in Australia, I got a pretty good pulse what was coming into them vs what they could make
Plus I can walk out and read the "Made in xyz" off of the boxes (well except springs but ARB has been making those in Malaysia for 11 years). Bars are made both in Aus and Thailand, racks the same. Air lockers Aus, etc.
I'm 110% confident that the CS002F/5F you cited are NOT made in the US and what you are seeing is simply one of their vendors (wUnderCarParts which is a US based company) listing them as such in their database, nothing telling there. They likely source them from ARB USA and thus put USA for any and all of the parts... they likely have no clue what a leaf spring is let alone where it is made.
The info really isn't that vague, call and ask. I've spoken at length with ARB and Dobinson about their manufacture locations, my notes above stand. I've been to ARB, Dobinson and Don Kyatt (Terrain Taimer) in Australia, I got a pretty good pulse what was coming into them vs what they could make
Plus I can walk out and read the "Made in xyz" off of the boxes (well except springs but ARB has been making those in Malaysia for 11 years). Bars are made both in Aus and Thailand, racks the same. Air lockers Aus, etc.
ironman is an aussie company first starting out as Jacobs springs in melbourne back in the late fifties in fact it is still owned and run by the Jacobs family been in the steel industry for over hundreds years ironman has a factory in thailand where there stuff is made with products designed and tested in aus. ARB also have a factory thailand where the dakar range of products are made a range of there springs were made in aust by king springs. Ironman has always been seen as the el cheapo range in australia.
