'94 FZJ80 Conversion to Biodiesel / Vege-oil burner.... (1 Viewer)

[e9999]

I would think that the free fryer oil from restaurant bit is a transient remnant of when they had to pay to get rid of it and there was no demand. As soon as the demand will build up and people will start shoving each other at McDonalds to get the oil, they would be stupid to give it away for free any longer. I would not plan on free or dirt cheap waste oil for very long and I would certainly not count on that in estimating the cost effectiveness of a diesel swap.

 

[alaskacruiser]

e9999- I agree. I don't even consider the WVO advantage because some restaurants are already starting to charge for it and/or have informal contracts with groups/small businesses. That cost advantage won't last too long. Not to mention the potential problems with injection pumps I keep reading about.

 

[UTE BACK 100]

biodiesel sunks PROPANE

you can run your 80 on propane TODAY!! sequential fuel injection and 2.00 fuel with half the emmissions all the power even supercharged do I have your attention???

 

[UTE BACK 100]

Propane

BTW propane is 90% US made

 

[OGBeno]

Continue Alan.....we're interested....

 

[Firedog]

You could convert it to diesel.......then run gas in it!
Transonic Combustion

Talk about cost vs. benefit

 

[IronYuppy]

Don't let the naysayers discourage you. If you want to do the conversion, then you should. It's not all about the bottom-line.

 

[firetruck41]

Don't let the naysayers discourage you. If you want to do the conversion, then you should. It's not all about the bottom-line.

Right! (unless, as the OP mentioned, he wants to do it because of money)

...Any other green alternatives that will work with my FZJ80, so I'm not paying $70 for a tank of gas every 2 days??

Now what's this about propane, Podvin?

 

[LukeO]

If you want to go green just convert your gasser to ethanol, costs like $500.00 plus a few minutes of your time.

I doubt the loss in mpg from burning E85 will cost you near as much as the $$$ loss from a diesel/SVO/bio swap.



E85 Conversion Kits Change2E85.com




Though, I'd like to drop diesels in all my Cruisers too...

 

[clownmidget]

you can run your 80 on propane TODAY!! sequential fuel injection and 2.00 fuel with half the emmissions all the power even supercharged do I have your attention???

like this?

technocarb.com - EPA Certified LPG Conversion Kits

 

[Firedog]

you can run your 80 on propane TODAY!! sequential fuel injection and 2.00 fuel with half the emmissions all the power even supercharged do I have your attention???

Everything i have found about this suggest a 10% to 15% decrease in mileage and power and the conversion cost around $6000!
Not to mention the cost of propane (well over two dollars a gallon here)
Where is the benefit?

 

[sethro]

I've got the other truck that came back from Proffitts with latoyota. After..umm a year now?( I can't remember how long I've had it back) My mileage is not as high as I would like. Average of 18mpg. High of 23ish. 35"'s w/ 4bta/700r4. Daily driver. Mostly short trips, live and work in the same city. Re-conned (basically new) motor from Cummins. Heard that I need to "break it in" (tow a load for a weekend) to increase power and economy.

Financially, it killed me. 20K is no joke.

Would I do it again? absolutely. It's fun as hell to drive, and it keeps me grinning everytime the bio-exhaust wafts up me nostrils...

cool,

seth

 

[LukeO]

I've got the other truck that came back from Proffitts with latoyota. After..umm a year now?( I can't remember how long I've had it back) My mileage is not as high as I would like. Average of 18mpg. High of 23ish. 35"'s w/ 4bta/700r4. Daily driver. Mostly short trips, live and work in the same city. Re-conned (basically new) motor from Cummins. Heard that I need to "break it in" (tow a load for a weekend) to increase power and economy.

Financially, it killed me. 20K is no joke.

Would I do it again? absolutely. It's fun as hell to drive, and it keeps me grinning everytime the bio-exhaust wafts up me nostrils...

cool,

seth

20K is a friggin lot of gas.


The environment will always be here.

 

[arcteryx]

Some Real World Figures for my BTJ80

Wow, what fun did I step into?!?!?! Some of you I have spoken offline already, be it PM and/or email.

I bought my truck from John (Grease Cruiser) @ Proffitts. Search in either the 70s or 80s section and you'll see the story.

I run B100 in all of my vehicles. We're lucky in Austin that we have 2 suppliers of REALLY good fuel. The fuel always exceeds ASTM standards. It's good stuff, not some farmer's homebrew. I love it when people smell my tail and say it smells like french fries

The Whale is a 91 FJ80 with a Reconditioned Cummins 4BTA with 95K miles mated to a 700R4 and uses a 60 series split Tcase. I run 35s, 4" Slee lift, ARB front bumper, Kaymer rear bumper with rear tire swing out, along with some other stuff. I am making a web page to detail it all and will update my sig line when I do so.

I bought it in Sept. 07, and have tracked my fuel mileage since. Worst was 16 and change, best was 20 and change. Most of the time I am around 17.5. I drive to work 5.5 miles each way, not going over 50, most of the time around 40. So, I am in the city, hitting some stop lights. It would be higher I presume if I would go 60 (its sweetspot @ 1800 RPMs) on the highway.

When I spoke to John, he said he was getting low 20s in Colorado. So, altitude must play a role in MPG for these engines. I have also spoken to Andre (dieselcruiserhead) who has 4BTswaps and this awesome toyota diesel site. He has given me a few items to look at to increase my MPG. I feel very confident I can hit 20 regularly with some minor mods.

There are 2 4BT powered cruisers in Austin, mine and my buddy, Dave (davegonz). He owns the Princess, a 1991 VZ 4BT62. He has a H55 in it and gets 20-21. He also uses bio.

In my opinion, the MPG figures that are being used are comparing apples to oranges. Comparing a stock cruiser to a far from stock cruiser is not a fair comparison. I spoke to a Dallas LSLC member at Roundup whose rig was virtually identical(4"lift, ARB bumpers, 35s, etc) except he still had the 1FZ engine. He was getting 9.5-11 MPG. So, I am extremely happy to be getting 17.5 on biodiesel given that my truck is a very capable off-road vehicle.

I went with a Cummins over a Toyota for 2 main reasons- 1) it was a Proffitts rig which meant a quality job, and 2) parts availability. Having to wait up to 3 weeks for a part was out of the question.

It is my opinion that the most economical way to step into a diesel cruiser is to purchase one that is already converted, whther it be a converted 80 or a factory 60. But, Proffitts has done less than 30 4BTs as of this date, so finding one can be difficult. With that said, converting it will be pricey. I am not gonna get in the math, as it seems to be hashed out.

And, one thing that has not been addressed is the WAF- Wife Acceptance Factor. My wife loved our 1997 FZJ80. For the Whale, she was a little nervous about parking, and having to manually engage the lockup torque converter. After an hour, she was quite at ease. In fact, she and my kids LOVE driving/riding in it. I fear that I may lose the Whale at some point as my DD.

Yes, you can run 33s. Dave did when he got the Princess, but man, did they look dumb. Donuts. He now runs 35s AT. But, to each his own.

And, yes, I can fit in a parking garage. I do it everyday when I arrive at the office.

As far a biodiesel, it's going mainstream. There are a LOT of refineries coming on board in the next 2-3 years. In fact, there may even be a glut. One of my favorite websites is Green Car Congress.. They talk about it there. While I don't like paying high prices for fuel, I am more at ease knowing that my money is going into the local/state economy, and not to Chavez or the Middle East.

Finally, one thing that has not been mentioned is towing. I can tow something with much less of a hit than a gasser. Hopefully, that's common knowledge though.

Anyway, hope this sheds some light for those who are contemplating it. It is not for everyone. Some may prefer a Toyota. Some may opt for a Chevy. Some may go with another maker. Some may not even go. But, I think many folks on here would be very pleased with it. I highly recommend riding in a conversion prior to plunking down money. Henry had the Princess, so I knew what I was getting into. Let me know if you have questions and if you are ever in Austin, look Dave or I up.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[davegonz]

I think there are a lot of unaccounted for costs in these diesel conversions and I'll make a comment on Alaska's to that effect since he asked. First, operation of a diesel is generally lower in terms of fuel purchases, but higher in terms of maintenance and repairs. So, you may find that by the time your 6 year actual real world operation of the vehicle is up, you have spent an additional $1000 on special filters, higher cost oil, shorter oil change intervals, fuel/water separators, diesel injection pump service and batteries. Then, let's toss in a random failure such as an alternator. On a gasser, you could buy one at Schuck's for $80. An alternator on a diesel is perhaps $450. Atop this, there are some invisible costs such as the total of 10 days the vehicle might sit over this 6 year period while you track down a radiator hose or fan belt or widgit valve for an engine that is scarce, or even never sold here in the US. By this, I'm trying to have an accounting made for a specialty vehicle for which you cannot replace a fan belt that tears while you and your family are heading to Grandma's 300 miles away. What's it worth to you to no longer have a vehicle you are not afraid to drive 2000 miles at the drop of a hat? My brother in law's 93 80 series rolled over 320,000 miles while he and his family drove it on a 3000 mile trip last month - leaving their year old BMW in the garage. He knew that if it puked up anything from a radiator to a water pump that he'd likely get whatever he needed at any of the 50 Toyota dealerships he passed along the way.

Finally, there is the entire point of the conversion to address rather directly. The point is to reduce operating expenses, right? With the above points I've eroded that a bit by redirecting discussions away from just fuel savings to consider the TOTAL added operating expense of a diesel engine. By the way, a great way to get a grip on that is to call a dealer that sells a diesel truck and ask the service department what the total cost to maintain a diesel engine is over a 120,000 mile period. That's where you'll learn about fuel separators, injector service, injector pump service, the cost of oil changes and their intervals, etc. Then ask the same for a gasser - that's where you'll be told there is zero maintenance except fluids and recommended spark plugs at 100,000 miles. Gas engines have come a loooooong way.

Anyhow, back to my point. If the point is to reduce operating costs of your current vehicle, how about this:

Remove all excess gear, including the third seats, roof rack, etc
Next time you purchase tires, get a stock size or slightly narrower
Next time you change oil, use synthetic

And finally, SLOW DOWN. Here are some numbers I stole from an old post by Craig Vincent on the old 80's Cool list. He calculated the 80s frontal area and drag coefficient and charted out the horsepower at each speed it required to push an 80 along. His numbers show that reducing your freeway speed from 75mph to about 68 would reduce needed horsepower by 29%. If you're getting about 13mpg at 75 (I do), then you would get around 17mpg. Easing your around town driving as well, you might end the 6 year test by reducing your annual fuel costs by $1200 (15,000/13=1100 gallonsX$3.50=$4000-29% done in my head). After 6 years, you've saved $7200 with this strategy, where the diesel conversion saved you $0 at this point because that's where the whole project paid off (before adding in all my above hidden costs, BTW). The beauty of this is you do very little and it costs you nothing, plus you retain the factory reliability of an unmolested 80.

Every decision should be made in the context of what choices you have, and one is to optimize the vehicle you already own for mileage. Tough to do on an 80, but possible IF THAT'S REALLY YOUR GOAL.

I realize there is an unaccounted for coolness factor to having a diesel 80. No question. But I want those considering this to reduce their vehicle budget to understand that there is a little analysis you should do before opting for this strategy. And if you do this analysis, you may find the project will not save money at all due to the initial investment and the presence of an alternative (optimizing your current vehicle and altering your driving habits) that narrows the gap for free.

DougM

Well, having had my 4BT powered Princess for damn near a year, I can speak first hand about parts availability, maintenance and fuel mileage.

Parts are readily available and cheap due to the fact that almost all parts that came on a 1st generation Dodge 12V will fit on a 4BT. We don't have Schucks stores, but here in Austin you can buy alternators any where from $45 to $100 for my 4BT. A starter can be a little more..ranging from $100 for a rebuilt one on up to several hundred for a heavy duty new one. I recently replaced my water pump for $60 new. The only big dollar item that IS expensive to replace is the injection pump (IP). The IP can be rebuilt, but since it is a complicated device, only trained mechanics can work on them...which accounts for the hefty price to rebuild it (anywhere from $700 ~ $1k).

Maintenance is not a big deal as well. As mentioned before, parts are shared with the mass produced first gen Dodge turbo diesels (filters, etc). The oil sump is bigger, so your total oil change cost for a DIYer would be a little more.

Lastly, fuel consumption. My heavy ass truck with 35's and a roof rack gets 20mpg consistenly, but does drop down to 18mpg if I'm heavy on the skinny pedal. If I were to keep the truck as close to stock and run 31's or 33's, then I can see it getting mid 20's mpg.

Like Jason says, let us know if you are ever in Austin and want to take a ride on a 4BT powered cruiser.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I would think that the free fryer oil from restaurant bit is a transient remnant of when they had to pay to get rid of it and there was no demand. As soon as the demand will build up and people will start shoving each other at McDonalds to get the oil, they would be stupid to give it away for free any longer. I would not plan on free or dirt cheap waste oil for very long and I would certainly not count on that in estimating the cost effectiveness of a diesel swap.

Just how many people do you figure are out there running waste veggie oil? I don't think Micky D's is a valid source, everything I've read is the better sources are mom and pop places. Seriously though - if there were 100 SVO/WVO conversions in Tulsa - a town of 750,000 and probably 100,000 sources for WVO - I'd be shocked. Look at the yellow pages, count the # of restaraunts that sell french fries, chinese food, or really, in Oklahoma, any food (we fry everything down here, even snickers bars) in a 30 mile radius. Then figure how many diesels there are in that same 30 mile radius (we're in dually horse hauler country here, so there might be 5% of the vehicles running diesel - figure only 50% are trucks, less than 1/2 that are 1 tons, and less than 25% of those are diesel)......... yadda yadda yadda.... the demand for WVO isn't that high yet, nor do I think it will ever be so high as to cost 1/2 what diesel does.

or, you can click one of the links at the bottom of the site and pay $.41 a gallon (toungue firmly in cheek)

Diesel Secret Energy - Alternative Biofuel Biodiesel

All that said - I agree with the sypnopsi

1. It's cool

2. It is environmentally friendly if you run bio or SVO or WVO. I've read much, and it's the most friendly option available today - E85 is a joke.

3. It's cool

4. Biodiesel - no war needed

5. It's cool

6. If you're already looking at a engine replacement, you can take that off your cost

7. It's cool

8. If you're already lifted 4" you can take that off your cost

9. It's cool

10. Getting 20mpg with a 22 gallon tank means a driving range over 400 miles. This alone is a huge advantage over the 220-250 miles I get out of a tank on my truck.

11. It's cool

12. When society colapses (which should be in the next 10 years by my estimation) - you'll still be driving on your veggie oil. Or at least that's my plan


One last thing to note - the 20K for proffits includes a REMAN 4bt, not a used engine - so if you plan on keeping your truck indeffinately (I figure I'm never getting rid of my truck) - 400K+ is not unusual for these engines. So really, who cares if the payback takes 10 years. Do a really worst case napkin calculation - $3.00 for gas, $3.50 for diesel (no bio/SVO/WVO) and 12mpg gas vs. 19mpg diesel, 15K miles a year (which is considered average for trade in value) - you're saving just shy of a grand a year. 20 year payback. But hey, the engine is still good for another 7 years + after that!!!

I have a diesel conversion in the back of my mind for when my 1fz goes (hopefully not for another 100K), and since so much of my truck is 'new' (brakes, shocks ect.), I would be perfectly happy with a 10 year payback simply for 2 of the reasons above - 400+ miles on a tank (makes traveling easier, and exploring too) and ability to run green or at least greener fuel. Like every other choice on what you do to your rig, it's a personal choice, and the numbers only have to add up to YOU being happy.

In the meantime, I bought a '86 Kawasaki Eliminator for $1,000 that gets 40mpg - and fortunately we have about 9 months of good riding weather, 2 months of sketchy riding weather and about a month worth of 'no way I'm gett'n on that bike'

 

[IronYuppy]

...

12. When society colapses (which should be in the next 10 years by my estimation) - you'll still be driving on your veggie oil. Or at least that's my plan

You forgot that an EMP blast will destroy pretty much all electronics. A mechanical diesel vehicle will still start and run.

 

[arcteryx]

Walking Eagle- I concur. WVO will always be a botique fuel, unless these kits start being put in at the factories. For most Americans, its too laborous. One of the suppliers sells filtered WVO for $1.75 a gallon. If/when I ever brew biodiesel, I will buy it collected and cleaned. My time is worth at least that much, IMO.

IronYuppy- Thanks for bringing up something I forgot to mention. Guess how many wires are involved in the conversion for the 4BT? Three. That's right, three. Adios wiring harness and the complex electronics that go with it. This means my weekend wanna-be mechanic skills can work on it.

 

[cruiserfan]

another alternative

i don't remember the name of the company but they normally have a link here on mud. they are in canada and they are already importing diesel 80s. sell yours and use it for the difference you will need. the only time you will have waiting is for yours to sell and you have an OEM diesel cruiser. then all you will need is the biodiesel conversion. just a thought

 

[e9999]

i don't remember the name of the company but they normally have a link here on mud. they are in canada and they are already importing diesel 80s. sell yours and use it for the difference you will need. the only time you will have waiting is for yours to sell and you have an OEM diesel cruiser. then all you will need is the biodiesel conversion. just a thought

it's not that easy to import these to the US...