Project Kayline - a soft top adventure...

[craigwanderer]

I've done the measurements for the canvas and I'm getting ready to build me an OEM style soft top.

I have decided against using factory bows as I have a perfectly good set of kayline folding ones on it already. They look just like this:

Thanks to muddonkey for the pic

I'm going to continue to utilise the tube framing above the doors and the pillar because it works and I already have the hardware.

What I don't like about the kayline tops is they make the Gecko look like a jeep due to the funny windows and the slanting back. My idea is to maybe extend the rear bow so that back end of the soft top is directly in line with the tailgate rather than slanting.

I have a few options to allow me to do this extension, but the one I'm leaning most towards is making the rear bow length-adjustable with a spring-loaded stud like you sometimes see on the legs of those cheapie folding tables.

Like this:

If the spring-loaded stud system turns out to be too much of a technical challenge, I may have slum it and use a thumbscrew system like you find on some collapsible tent poles.

Like this:

It has to be adjustable for two reasons:

1. If I just leave at its current length I'll end up with what looks like a green canvas TJ jeep top with cool side windows

2. If I lengthen it and weld the extension into place, then it won't clear the jerrycans on the back

So the OEM-style top won't have the middle bow unless I somehow graft one onto it, but if it all works as planned, I'll have found the holy grail... a way to mate an OEM style soft top to Kayline bows.

I guess before I get started on chopping up my rear bow, I should ask...

Has anyone successfully done this?

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

OCDbeetle is working on something similar using a Bestop frame. Check out the Merchandise Storefront in the Vendor section.

 

[tucker74]

So the OEM-style top won't have the middle bow unless I somehow graft one onto it, but if it all works as planned, I'll have found the holy grail... a way to mate an OEM style soft top to Kayline bows.

I guess before I get started on chopping up my rear bow, I should ask...

Has anyone successfully done this?

Not that I know of, but I'm watching since I've got that same top on my '76 You planning on farming out the top, or sewing it yourself?

Tucker

 

[craigwanderer]

I'm sewing it myself. There's no-one in Australia who sells them and believe it or not, the two upholsterers I spoke to refused to do it due to it being canvas material and the fact that the windows are stitched in - not waterproof and they don't want to be liable for any water damage to the vehicle's plush upholstery lol. Crazy. As a consequence, I've gone and bought a bunch of heavy-duty OD green tent canvas and I'm throwing it together on an old Singer thread injector with a #19 needle and mil surplus #69 bonded core thread. The machine will go through 12 layers of soft top vinyl so it will work on this quite easily.

I'm making a pattern/prototype out of a couple of really cheap 9 foot by 12 foot PVC-backed canvas dropsheets I found in a hardware store to test the concept. The prototype top will be my backup top - dual-layered with black shadecloth interior lining to remove any flapping if I can't get the sides drum tight. This canvas is a very light tan, so I'll be staining it with an olive green deck stain after treating it.

The final version will be made out of heavy-duty canvas with olive drab rachel mesh lining (like the mesh you see on military vests). I'm not using side or rear zips, but rather a 550 cord/grommet system which is very hard to explain, but simple to show in person. They use this system on Aus mil 11x11 tents and some commercial marquees - maybe even on older FJ tops like the FJ25.

Sorry guys, I'm not planning on offering these tops or the pattern for sale - personal use only.

 

[MAD40er]

Sorry guys, I'm not planning on offering these tops or the pattern for sale - personal use only.

LOL! Let see if it works first! ;p

 

[craigwanderer]

It was a bit of a premature statement, but there are folks here on Mud working on this in a commercial capacity, hence the caveat.

Here are some mockups using an Icon FJ40 pic as a base - it's hard to find line art of a 40 on the net. I photoshopped the colour so it's closer to mine. I'll probably go with this soft top window configuration because it's easy and gives good visibility.

Pic 1: shows the arrangement of the bows and door framing.

As you can see from the arrangement of the framing, I'm gonna have to extend the front bow a little too to get the right pitch on the roof. I've also added in the "optional" middle bow to fit the source picture.

Pic 2: Shows the finished product. Doesn't look as bad as I thought it would.

As for the fixing method for the side curtain/body interface, I may go with the standard Kayline interface, backed up by a strap and a footman loop at the front and rear. Should give a nice clean look. Due to all the crap I have hanging off my tailgate, I'll go with the strap/footman loop interface for the rear curtain. simply because it's easy.

 

[Living in the Past]

Here's a link to a couple of pictures of Toyota's original "A" style bows. It might be a way of getting the original lines by adding a second piece to the back bow.

Second page, post 25 and page 3 post 57.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj25-owners-group/45428-fj25-early-fj40-soft-top-project.html

 

[craigwanderer]

Thanks LITP, that was a helpful link.

As of this evening, I've got the doors back on, the front of the top fitted, and have a rough idea of how much I need to extend the rear bow.

I'll post some pics as I get a little further along. At the moment it just looks like a piece of canvas draped over the 40.

 

[JohnnyC]

that looks good...cant wait to see more

 

[Trollhole]

It was a bit of a premature statement, but there are folks here on Mud working on this in a commercial capacity, hence the caveat.

Here are some mockups using an Icon FJ40 pic as a base - it's hard to find line art of a 40 on the net. I photoshopped the colour so it's closer to mine. I'll probably go with this soft top window configuration because it's easy and gives good visibility.

Pic 1: shows the arrangement of the bows and door framing.

As you can see from the arrangement of the framing, I'm gonna have to extend the front bow a little too to get the right pitch on the roof. I've also added in the "optional" middle bow to fit the source picture.

Pic 2: Shows the finished product. Doesn't look as bad as I thought it would.

As for the fixing method for the side curtain/body interface, I may go with the standard Kayline interface, backed up by a strap and a footman loop at the front and rear. Should give a nice clean look. Due to all the crap I have hanging off my tailgate, I'll go with the strap/footman loop interface for the rear curtain. simply because it's easy.

Might try this way. By bending the top 8 inches or so you will have a mor form fitting top.

 

[craigwanderer]

That's a good idea Trollhole, but I can't use it because the bows need to fold to clear all the junk in the back. The rear bow will now be vertical rather than diagonal - see below.

Update - tried extending the rear bow - although the adjustable join was nice and solid, the extra length and weight was playing havoc with the bracket the kayline bows slot into and looked too flimsy. Therefore, I'm not gonna mess around with trying to make that rear bow fit any further. I have disassembled it and I'm planning to make an oem-style rear bow out of the kayline rear bow. I'll let you know how I go (I don't have a pipe bender).

I would not recommend folks use the rear kayline bows as is for an OEM style soft top. It would be nothing but trouble. Better to modify them as a vertical bow like OEM.

At the moment, the front bow seems to be working well for this purpose without modification.

I've got the materials for the middle bow and sides. Due to the fact that I don't have a pipe bender, I ended up cutting up an old chair made out of the same tubing as the Kayline bows. This chair conveniently gave me 2 x 90 degree bends of the correct radius for welding into the ends of the body of the middle bow.

 

[Trollhole]

Also for additional hardware you might look into a boat top supplier. They all have really cool stuff you can get ideas from.

Boat Top Hardware

 

[craigwanderer]

Thanks again Trollhole, after looking through the link, I've definitely had some ideas and I'll be heading to a boat shop tomorrow to source some nylon fittings I will use instead of welded tabs for the middle bows.

Progress report:

Kayline rear bow has been modified into something very closely resembling a rear OEM bow, complete with the funky angles where it interfaces with the tub.

Due to a lack of pipe benders in my shed, I went all Bubba on its a$$. Here's how I did it -

I was lucky with the first angle, it was almost perfect (old chair again), but for the second bend, I had to get creative. Using a cold chisel, I dented it where I was fixin' to bend it, then clamped it to the bench and pulled until the metal pipe rippled and folded, but did not tear. Any time there looked like a crease, I hammered any folds flat and continued pulling. Once I had it at the correct angle, I ran a couple of lines of weld into the seam to strengthen it. It worked perfectly, but doesn't look very pretty because I'm just learning to weld.

I'll be visiting a relative soon who does all this pipe bending and welding for a living manufacturing agricultural machinery, so if he says any of my bubba-fab is likely to fail, I'll get him to do it properly for me

I have to source or make some of the brackets for the rear bow/tub interface, but for the moment, I'm working on mocking up the wheel arch bracket out of wood and using a conduit bracket for the side of the tub. I won't be driving with it like this - all this work has just been so that I can measure out the top piece of the soft top with the bows at the correct, final height.

Before I can fit the rear bow into the vehicle, I have to make sure it is precisely 40 inches high as per this diagram from Pin_Head via SouthBostonFJ:

Once I'm happy it's the right size (and I clean up the dodgy welding) I'll take some pics.

I am definitely on track though, so it's all good.

EDIT: Rear bow is done. 40 inches high at the corners, fits perfectly and collapses just like it should. When the bottom bits with the funky angles are removed (they slide on and off), it fits back where the Kayline fast track rear bows go.

I've already made the middle bow, so I just have to whack together the two connectors (between the front and rear bows) and fit them. Then I can continue with putting together the soft top.

 

[ocdbeetle]

You're certainly not wasting any time.....Can't wait to see it.......Sounds like you're forging right through it.......

 

[ColoCruiserJeff]

This will be so freakin sweet!

Can't wait to see the progress- very cool!

 

[craigwanderer]

A few teaser pics of the bows.

Still have to do a LOT of tweaking.

The bend in the upright.

Mine is a piece which slides on and off

Another view.

The concept put together.

Check out the middle bow lol - that's what I mean about tweaking. Those middle bows need to be re-bent. The radius of the bend in the Kayline bow peices is a lot larger than the almost perfect 90 degree bend I have in the middle bows.

Unfortunately so far my metal fabrication skills don't match my ambition, but I'm learning.

I'll take some better, more detailed pics probably tomorrow illustrating the easy, no-cut/no-drill/no-weld modifications to the kayline front bow. Now I have to go and wrap those middle bow pieces around a tree to try and get the correct radius for the bend.

 

[craigwanderer]

Remember how in the post above, the bows actually looked the way that a$s smells? Thanks to all the polite Mudders out there who refrained from commenting. lol

Good news is that the bows have been tweaked and checked and fit perfectly. All the angles are correct and I'm pretty happy with the bows considering my limited resources.

I've just painted the bows the same OD colour that the 40 will be. I fitted the canvas again after tweaking the bows and the roof line is pretty much spot on compared an OEM soft top and bows. The only major hassle was the middle bow (again). It is about half an inch too tall. All this metal working is eating into my stitch-biatching time, so as a stopgap measure, I'm just going to angle the middle bow forwards a fraction.

After my metalworking adventures, I'm gonna have to put a disclaimer in my sig - "Not pretty, but it works".

It's getting dark now, so not much point in setting up the bows and taking photos, but I'll take some tomorrow and listen out for the crickets.

 

[craigwanderer]

Pics taken this AM.

Took me a couple of days to get to this point seeing as I didn't quite know what I was doing, but it's adjusted, installed and solid as a rock.

I have two main issues with it -

1. The bar which goes across the door is now at a slight angle due to the lifting of the front bow. I can turn the windscreen bracket upside down which may level it out, but that will leave me with a gap between the top of the door and the bar. I have an idea of how to make this work.

2. The middle bow is workable as it is, but it has to be angled forwards to work properly. I need to cut maybe an inch off the ends of the middle bow.

I've put the canvas on it and the line of the roof is good.

Cheers.

 

[craigwanderer]

To the canvas BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I have most of the patterns for the side curtains, rear and the corners cut now, but I've run into a problem with the very top panel... Simply draping a lump of thin canvas over the bows and hoping it will fit when pulled tight doesn't work. Also the arm on my thread injector is too short for the width of the canvas I'm using (200cm) making it a complete pain in the arse to work with. Good news is that making a dual-seam top panel is going to be easier than expected. It will be made in five distinct sections (left side, middle, right side, windscreen interface channel, rear panel) which is a good thing. I've been pondering using a cheapie glue gun on the seams before I sew them to keep them in place, so I'll test that out. I'm currently using a series of bulldog clips to hold seams in place before I sew them.

Here's a trick I learned from a motor trimmer when it comes to making patterns for canvas or vinyl canopies, tonneau covers or trailer covers... Go to your local hardware store or craft shop and pick up some thinnish transparent vinyl, like the stuff they use for outdoor table covers. Drape it over the bows without stretching it too much and mark it appropriately with a magic marker. The big thing is you have to be able to visualise how the piece is going to connect to the piece next to it and allow for the seam widths. Once you have your panel pattern, you can simply lay it on top of the canvas and make an outline with tailor's chalk which you then cut out. By doing it this way you are taking out any guesswork. You'll also end up with a pattern which is reusable. I'll take a couple of photos of the pattern pieces.

The eyelet/550 cord fastening arrangement idea for the side curtains and back has been knocked on the head. Too much messing around and although it's as quick to open and as secure as a zipper, it does take a while to do up. I'm heading back up to the canvas wholesaler tomorrow to pick a little more canvas (awesome colour - they call it "Khaki", but it looks like lightly faded olive drab canvas) for a side project - bows carry bag and a big pouch to be fitted to the inside of the tailgate to keep my bikini top in -, so I'll pick up a roll of heavy duty OD nylon YKK zipper and a bunch of runners.

Having a bit of trouble sourcing decent window vinyl locally, so I'll order some in from there as well.

I have been able to source some bestop-style windscreen channel locally which has given me more design options - for instance, this allows me to make 2-piece wooden b-pillars with a jigsaw and router. Screw them together with a tunnel for the front bow, lacquer the wood and then use bedliner on it. We'll see how that goes, but I'm definitely pondering it due to the amount of messing about it takes to do it with the existing Kayline top framing bars.

 

[Trollhole]

To the canvas BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I have most of the patterns for the side curtains, rear and the corners cut now, but I've run into a problem with the very top panel... Simply draping a lump of thin canvas over the bows and hoping it will fit when pulled tight doesn't work. Also the arm on my thread injector is too short for the width of the canvas I'm using (200cm) making it a complete pain in the arse to work with. Good news is that making a dual-seam top panel is going to be easier than expected. It will be made in five distinct sections (left side, middle, right side, windscreen interface channel, rear panel) which is a good thing. I've been pondering using a cheapie glue gun on the seams before I sew them to keep them in place, so I'll test that out. I'm currently using a series of bulldog clips to hold seams in place before I sew them.

Here's a trick I learned from a motor trimmer when it comes to making patterns for canvas or vinyl canopies, tonneau covers or trailer covers... Go to your local hardware store or craft shop and pick up some thinnish transparent vinyl, like the stuff they use for outdoor table covers. Drape it over the bows without stretching it too much and mark it appropriately with a magic marker. The big thing is you have to be able to visualise how the piece is going to connect to the piece next to it and allow for the seam widths. Once you have your panel pattern, you can simply lay it on top of the canvas and make an outline with tailor's chalk which you then cut out. By doing it this way you are taking out any guesswork. You'll also end up with a pattern which is reusable. I'll take a couple of photos of the pattern pieces.

The eyelet/550 cord fastening arrangement idea for the side curtains and back has been knocked on the head. Too much messing around and although it's as quick to open and as secure as a zipper, it does take a while to do up. I'm heading back up to the canvas wholesaler tomorrow to pick a little more canvas (awesome colour - they call it "Khaki", but it looks like lightly faded olive drab canvas) for a side project - bows carry bag and a big pouch to be fitted to the inside of the tailgate to keep my bikini top in -, so I'll pick up a roll of heavy duty OD nylon YKK zipper and a bunch of runners.

Having a bit of trouble sourcing decent window vinyl locally, so I'll order some in from there as well.

I have been able to source some bestop-style windscreen channel locally which has given me more design options - for instance, this allows me to make 2-piece wooden b-pillars with a jigsaw and router. Screw them together with a tunnel for the front bow, lacquer the wood and then use bedliner on it. We'll see how that goes, but I'm definitely pondering it due to the amount of messing about it takes to do it with the existing Kayline top framing bars.

Instead of wood use abs plastic. Much better product and machines almost as well as wood.