Hi sorry for reviving the thread, I have a question has any rain tested braking without lvsp and abs? In my 80 I bought a new lspv at the request of my mechanic, the abs apparently works well but the braking sucks, apparently my booster is also broken but my master is new (aisin), my question about the rain is that I live in Panama (country) and we have 9 months of rain, I want to change my booster and possibly eliminate abs and lspv but I have doubts if it will be in rain (it is clear that there is a greater risk of locking the brakes)
Write-up: Toss the LSPV and install a manual proportioning valve
- Thread starter jcardona1
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I didn't delete the ABS but i did delete the LSPV. Removing this and properly bleeding my brakes (i used the trick posted by a fellow mudder to activate the ABS pump) made a huge difference.
With the LSPV deleted the Front/rear braking bias is 50/50 however the front calipers are huge compared to the rears so i imagine the true bias to be something closer to 60/40. My rig is quite heavy at the back and has never stepped out in damp or wet conditions. I have had the ABS activate in such conditions though so i wouldn't be a fan of deleting it.
With the LSPV deleted the Front/rear braking bias is 50/50 however the front calipers are huge compared to the rears so i imagine the true bias to be something closer to 60/40. My rig is quite heavy at the back and has never stepped out in damp or wet conditions. I have had the ABS activate in such conditions though so i wouldn't be a fan of deleting it.
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
I would never advocate removing the ABS or load valve, and given your environment I would not even consider it. What I would say is that moisture plays havoc with braking systems, so get the new booster and ensure the fluid is changed on a regular basis, perhaps every two years?
regards
Dave
lumbee1
Native American
This! My truck stops consistently every time with ABS and no LSPV. My LSPV was rotten and probably locked in the least rear bias position. I want to keep ABS for the few times we do get snow.
I removed both ABS and the LSPV. The improvement in braking was significant. However, I could easily lock the back wheels under braking. Installed a manual proportioning valve, set it up properly and braking has been fine ever since - including on wet roads and loose surfaces.
I may have stated this a couple of years ago.. If you don't know what it is to drive without ABS, then perhaps think about the delete of ABS LSPV, otherwise it is the absolute best thing I have ever done as a mod. It was fun just yesterday, meeting up with my club, as a laugh, I was on the highway pulling into a gas station and locked all 4 swampers up for a nice howl to say hello. It is a complete game changer off-road too. Pavement princesses, beware, I must say - It is awesome.
What's so great about the ABS delete? Do you have a manual valve?
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
The problem with a manual proportioning valve is exactly that.........it is manual!
The valve can only be set for certain vehicle mods/load/road condition, the moment the vehicle is loaded then the setting is now no longer valid.
regards
Dave
The valve can only be set for certain vehicle mods/load/road condition, the moment the vehicle is loaded then the setting is now no longer valid.
regards
Dave
Sure but it's just a knob you turn with your hands... it takes all of about 10 seconds to adjust
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Yep your dead right, just you have to do it every time the weight of the vehicle is changed, and of course you have to make sure the front/rear balance is correct so you get your gauges out.
Think about what it does, ask yourself why Toyota spec 'X' pressure and so forth, the reality is you simply cannot turn a knob and get it right.
regards
Dave
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Every truck is different. How much weight is in the rear when you've done this, and what were the road conditions? So much to consider.
I am sure I don't need to explain the physics, but when applying heavy stopping power the weight transfers forward with inertia. The more downward pressure on the front the more grip those tires get. This will keep the front wheels in rotation for longer than the rears and could produce "chucking" or "Chirping", but this all depends on a wild array of variables.
I've ridden in trucks that lock the front and the rear never does and the opposite. I have been in trucks where NOTHING they did would trigger ABS, even when the brakes and ABS were all tested as perfectly suitable for a 20+ year old truck.
My truck isn't perfect - the ABS only activated in the snow and still resulted in the rear swinging out. Otherwise, I have never noticed ABS doing much for me, which is likely a good thing given my grandpa style of driving.
My truck definitely has an air leak somewhere in the brakes and I likely need to replace the front calipers. Luckily - this is the toy car and it can sit and be patient while I noodle the next steps. My method for bleeding involves a home brew pressure bleeder, which is wonderful for getting everything bled out. (this is pretty close to the setup I built, except I used a flexible plumbing adapter for the brake fluid piece: )
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If you need a valve to adjust on the fly we used this set up on our Trophy Truck. Can makes a big difference braking hard into a corner in deep sand or hard pack if you feel you need TT braking.
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Nice piece of kit @LandCruiserPhil . 
I know having a brake balance valve in the cab and adjusting on the fly is great and certainly can shave time off a fast course but completely irrelevant to a vehicle in every day use.
As per @Proven I agree there are so many variables that are on the table which makes IMO removing a correctly operating and correctly adjusted LSPV a pointless exercise except to join the 'I too have removed mine' club.
Some of the quotes/comments I have seen to justify the valves removal are incredulous for example:
'I could not get the ABS to activate on gravel, so I removed the LSPV and now the brakes are great!'
This was probably because there was perhaps an air lock, and bleeding after removal of the valve sorted the original problem. As an aside you do not want the ABS to activate on gravel!
Another quote seen elsewhere:
'With the original system I could not get the brakes to lock, so I removed the ABS and now can lock the wheels' Er........yeh!
Something else that has to be factored in is the change of wheel/tyre/suspension combos, with each setup different from stock the valve pressure needs to be addressed.
And something I have not seen mentioned is the sensor under the centre console....no seriously there is one, if you have an ABS system then check it has not been unbolted and tucked down the side of the centre console, the warning light does not warn but the ABS cannot function correctly when in need.....of course there is now room under the centre console for the wiring and connectors for that bank of spot light switches.
And of course there is the legal aspect of modifying a vehicles brakes, I will not bother with that as I am sure everyone is aware of the law in their area.
regards
Dave
I know having a brake balance valve in the cab and adjusting on the fly is great and certainly can shave time off a fast course but completely irrelevant to a vehicle in every day use.
As per @Proven I agree there are so many variables that are on the table which makes IMO removing a correctly operating and correctly adjusted LSPV a pointless exercise except to join the 'I too have removed mine' club.
Some of the quotes/comments I have seen to justify the valves removal are incredulous for example:
'I could not get the ABS to activate on gravel, so I removed the LSPV and now the brakes are great!'
This was probably because there was perhaps an air lock, and bleeding after removal of the valve sorted the original problem. As an aside you do not want the ABS to activate on gravel!
Another quote seen elsewhere:
'With the original system I could not get the brakes to lock, so I removed the ABS and now can lock the wheels' Er........yeh!
Something else that has to be factored in is the change of wheel/tyre/suspension combos, with each setup different from stock the valve pressure needs to be addressed.
And something I have not seen mentioned is the sensor under the centre console....no seriously there is one, if you have an ABS system then check it has not been unbolted and tucked down the side of the centre console, the warning light does not warn but the ABS cannot function correctly when in need.....of course there is now room under the centre console for the wiring and connectors for that bank of spot light switches.
And of course there is the legal aspect of modifying a vehicles brakes, I will not bother with that as I am sure everyone is aware of the law in their area.
regards
Dave
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I did my ABS delete a little different and found no need for a proportioning valve yet with excellent results given my set up. Under wet conditions I can modulate the pedal and get my rear to lock without the front or go for the full mash and everything locks. I found much better pedal control after the delete. With that said I would not change a thing.
ABS System delete
ABS System delete
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
I have heard many say they can 'out brake' two comparable vehicles one with and one without ABS, and with many years driving cars and trucks I think there is an element of truth to this, and so would not contest your comments Phil. What I would say to you and those that have tested this system against that system etc have done it under controlled conditions. Where the ABS will beat ANYONE in a braking distance/control contest is in a real world event.
Your driving between cars down a side street and a kiddie runs out in front of you, the reality is you WILL stand on the brake pedal as hard as you can, it is reality. You will not think right I need to brake and not brake too hard in case I lock the wheels but, I am also going to be prepared to cadence brake if the wheels do lock, and of course I am ready for the back to come around as the rear wheels might lock.....THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN!
Kid runs out and you WILL slam on the brakes, the ABS is ready for that wheel lock, your LSPV is ready to reduce over braking the rear wheels depending on the amount of weight you are carrying, and the ABS will also allow you to retain some ability to steer (automatic reaction) to miss that kid.
Many many years ago I was driving a loaded van, a guy walked out in front of me on a green light, I saw him out of the corner of my eye, in one motion I braked as hard as I could and turned the steering wheel as quickly as I could to the left. The front of the van missed him and he got clipped on the side of the head by the mirror on the drivers door, and he went down, he died four days later! Despite all my years of driving I did the best I could and could do no more. I reflect on this often when I read threads like this and came to the same conclusion each time. If the van had been fitted with ABS would his life have been spared, I can only say possibly?
It's ironic that the reason this poor guy was there in the first place, was because one of his two feuding son's had just got married and he was walking between the reception and the other son's place of work, one son refused to go and 'bury the hatchet', the old boy walked out in front of me with a head full of sadness and of course he was not in a right mind to check the lights. The inquest was also horrific, standing side by side with one of his son's who I had known a number of years!
I think the distance covered between him stepping in front of me, and the distance covered bringing the van to a stop after the mirror hit his head that if ABS was fitted may, and I mean 'may' have shaved off another couple of MPH and lessened the impact but, I think where the ABS would have been a significant factor in this instance would have been my ability to steer the vehicle perhaps another few inches to the left.........or perhaps the width of the door mirror?
regards
Dave
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jjdeneen918
SILVER Star
I’m in the process of doing a hydro-boost brake conversion.
I deleted the LSPVin the process & added a manual proportioning valve.
per the Wilwood spec sheet, fully turned inward it puts the bias at 0%.
Fully tuned outward it puts the bias at 57%.
I’m trying to wrap my head around how that equates to front/rear bias. Can someone explain that?
At 57% bias mean the rear brakes are performing 57% of the 100%. Or is it performing 43% of the bias?
Here is my set up:
I deleted the LSPVin the process & added a manual proportioning valve.
per the Wilwood spec sheet, fully turned inward it puts the bias at 0%.
Fully tuned outward it puts the bias at 57%.
I’m trying to wrap my head around how that equates to front/rear bias. Can someone explain that?
At 57% bias mean the rear brakes are performing 57% of the 100%. Or is it performing 43% of the bias?
Here is my set up:
People need to hire better technical writers because I interpreted that differently than you did, but that doesn't make me right and you wrong.
What I read was that the lowest you could go is 43% less line pressure with the knob all the way out counterclockwise and by turning the knob incrementally clockwise the line pressure will increase all the way up to 100%.
So, I would assume (probably horribly) that no valve present is a balanced 50/50 braking pressure. If the knob is all the way out, does that take 57% of the pressure off the rear calipers and then all the way in restores the set back to 50/50?
This is why I don't mess with my brakes...I'm not even smart enough for a portioning valve conversation....
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