Tweeters, where??

[Booger weldz]

I have two on the 'attic rack' but need two more up front. I'm robbing the signal from the dash speakers, and wanna put them on the Apillars, but where to sneak the wires up there cleanly?

Also, were the factory speakers 8 ohm and paired(door/dash and door/rear headliner) to run 4 ohm? I'm using all the factory wiring but 4 ohm speakers.... Dunno if I'm pissing off my amp. So far it hasn't complained.

 

[nukegoat]

Impedance doesn't exactly work perfectly like that. Passive crossovers (not sure if any are in the circuit, I would assume the tweeters are high passed with a cap on the driver or something) change stuff too. Then your amp probably doesn't care anyway.

Placement of tweeters can be a pain since it is very directional... You will have to experiment and the driver choice makes a huge difference. The windshield will reflect everything all wacky when you stuff a tweet in the a pillar but it might sound fine.

 

[nukegoat]

And this is a better discussion for a car audio forum since that expertise is vehicle agnostic

 

[Booger weldz]

I caught wind of the 8ohm talk in an old stereo thread, here, when I searched this topic. I've used all the factory wiring to get to the speakers(it's simple and clean). The dash and rear upper headliner speakers now employ tweeters, the doors are all coaxial 6.5s.

I swear when I pulled the stock stuff it said 4ohm though? Making me think parallel, not series and then not an issue. ?

 

[Booger weldz]

And this is a better discussion for a car audio forum since that expertise is vehicle agnostic

True. Just looking for a quick answer though, since I'm sitting here with 3 tall cans and a wire stripper

 

[scottryana]

ideally you would want your tweeters in your a pillar pointing at you. But sometimes that is not feasible. It has been done, and done well. Luke111 has done a lot of custom stereo work in his 80. The last place you want to put the tweeters is down low in the door next to the separate. The happy medium usually ends up with people putting them in the top of the door. I have mine in the top of the door and it sounds good I have no complaints.

And the way wiring speakers works is:

If you wire two speakers that are 4ohms together in series (input to +, out the -, to the + one the second speaker to the -, and back to the amp) you have a 4+4 = 8ohm load

If you wire two speakers that are 4ohms together in parallel (- to - on each speaker, + to + on each speaker) you have 1/4 + 1/4 = 1/.5 = 2

This is especially important when you are choosing equipment and you know your amp provides the best power at 2 ohms. If you get (2) 4 ohms subs and wire them in series you have 4+4=8ohm load and lose out on amplifier efficiency and if you wire them in parallel you have a 1/4+1/4 = 1/.5 = 2ohms and is the best way to wire them. That is why you will often see the same subwoofer offered in multiple resistances so that you can plan how you will setup and wire them to work best with your amplifier and how many subs you want.

 

[nukegoat]

ideally you would want your tweeters in your a pillar pointing at you. But sometimes that is not feasible. It has been done, and done well. Luke111 has done a lot of custom stereo work in his 80. The last place you want to put the tweeters is down low in the door next to the separate. The happy medium usually ends up with people putting them in the top of the door. I have mine in the top of the door and it sounds good I have no complaints.

And the way wiring speakers works is:

If you wire two speakers that are 4ohms together in series (input to +, out the -, to the + one the second speaker to the -, and back to the amp) you have a 4+4 = 8ohm load

If you wire two speakers that are 4ohms together in parallel (- to - on each speaker, + to + on each speaker) you have 1/4 + 1/4 = 1/.5 = 2

This is especially important when you are choosing equipment and you know your amp provides the best power at 2 ohms. If you get (2) 4 ohms subs and wire them in series you have 4+4=8ohm load and lose out on amplifier efficiency and if you wire them in parallel you have a 1/4+1/4 = 1/.5 = 2ohms and is the best way to wire them. That is why you will often see the same subwoofer offered in multiple resistances so that you can plan how you will setup and wire them to work best with your amplifier and how many subs you want.

Impedance doesn't stay constant through a frequency sweep. And you really don't want to point tweeters at you directly. Also, one of the best places for tweeters is actually often the kick panel, next to the associated mid, to reduce phasing issues and to reduce the relative distance between l and r. So.... I don't agree with much of what you said.

I did car audio competitions for years.

 

[scottryana]

Well I didn't say kick panel I said door.

The reason you put it in the kick panels is to time them, putting both in the kick panels allows the sound to get to your ears about the same time. But that makes zero sense in a Land Cruiser. And yes you do have to point tweeters towards you, unlike low freqs they don't propagate.

You can disagree all you would like I have been into car audio for 20 years.

Impedance doesn't stay constant but it doesn't vary enough to warrant manufactures to list them as multiple impedances. It is close enough, just like many amps might be listed as a min 2ohm load and people push them at 1ohm and have no problems.

All the math is correct and if he wants to start tying speakers together he will need to understand that there are resistances, wiring them differently changes what resistance the amplifier sees and can make or break how he might want to set things up.

 

[nukegoat]

Well I didn't say kick panel I said door.

The reason you put it in the kick panels is to time them, putting both in the kick panels allows the sound to get to your ears about the same time. But that makes zero sense in a Land Cruiser. And yes you do have to point tweeters towards you, unlike low freqs they don't propagate.

You can disagree all you would like I have been into car audio for 20 years.

Impedance doesn't stay constant but it doesn't vary enough to warrant manufactures to list them as multiple impedances. It is close enough, just like many amps might be listed as a min 2ohm load and people push them at 1ohm and have no problems.

All the math is correct and if he wants to start tying speakers together he will need to understand that there are resistances, wiring them differently changes what resistance the amplifier sees and can make or break how he might want to set things up.

You said the last place you'd want your tweeters was next to the mid, low in the door. If you knew anything about car audio you would know that coaxially mounting a tweeter is often ideal. So.... Whatever floats your boat. I spent enough time in IASCA to know most people convince themselves that their setup sounds good, even when it doesn't.

 

[scottryana]

Sure buddy whatever you say. Show me one ideal setup that has a tweeter low in the door, below the listener's knees pointing 90 degrees to the listener.

 

[nukegoat]

Sure buddy whatever you say. Show me one ideal setup that has a tweeter low in the door, below the listener's knees pointing 90 degrees to the listener.

Coax mounting isn't a myth.
http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorial/2/SQ_system_Set-Ups_and_the_Theories_Behind_Them

 

[nukegoat]

That article also covers why pointing tweeters right at your face is a bad idea.
enjoy

 

[scottryana]

We can continue to disagree it won't hurt my feelings. I have pulled some quotes from your link. Like I said, no one is going to be tweeter mounting in the kick panel on the floor in a Land Cruiser it makes no sense. It is susceptible to water, dirt, mud, etc. That being said, in your link it specifically mentions the A-pillar and upper door as alternative locations. If you disagree, I would like to see your setup and your $1600 Focals on the floor next to your muddy boots.

"We can't possibly cover which is "best" in this article, as it depends on your car and your mounting location. But I am trying to give you the tools needed to use your own ears to find what works best for you."

"Often times, a second tweet will be placed in the A pillar or top of the door (behind the side mirrors in what's called the "sail panel")"

"You can use some A pillar-mounted tweeters in a cross- firing scheme to help, but you must keep the kick tweets playing as the MAIN tweets, and since the A pillars are closer to you"

 

[Booger weldz]

The door coaxial a have tweets. All kenwood echelon 6.5s. Seperate tweeters because everyone's knees sit @ the speakers in an 80.

I appreciate everything you guys are arguing about, good stuff, great tech. Serious.

 

[Booger weldz]

Factory rear headliner speaker

 

[Luke111]

I did front stage tweeters tilted towards front windshield .. In custom pods using PVC from H Depot.. They run through the crossovers for the front door components

 

[nukegoat]

Cdt tweeters?

 

[Luke111]

Better shot.. I have disconnected front door tweeters and understand why high end systems mount them closer to the Mid Bass or main speaker.

http://www.cdtaudio.com/installs/speaker_placement.htm

 

[Luke111]

Cdt tweeters?

Yes plus a few more from CDT
CDT Audio 6.5 in front and rear doors , CDT center channel and 4 inch components in rear pillars

 

[nukegoat]

. I have disconnected front door tweeters and understand why high end systems mount them closer to the Mid Bass or main speaker.

http://www.cdtaudio.com/installs/speaker_placement.html



ACH]

Not according to someone else in this thread, lol.

Great install btw. Very nice work