Timing Issues SOLVED - 3FE Break-In Procedure Confirmation and Questions (1 Viewer)

[cruisermatt]

What are you using for a charcoal canister? Sounds like an Evap line or charcoal canister is plugged, I'm assuming you have all the stock Evap lines and fuel liquid/vapor separator?
Vented gas cap could be used as a temp fix.

 

[Infinity00]

Yes, that could be part of your issue. Best to get a Toyota cap for it, and check your charcoal canister and shoot air into your gas lines back from the cannister with gas cap off - listen for air to determine it isn’t clogged.

 

[4Cruisers]

What are you using for a charcoal canister? Sounds like an Evap line or charcoal canister is plugged, I'm assuming you have all the stock Evap lines and fuel liquid/vapor separator?
Vented gas cap could be used as a temp fix.

One of the first things that came to mind was the charcoal canister, I'll take a look when I get back. Although I did try and run it without the gas cap - same issue.

Yes, that could be part of your issue. Best to get a Toyota cap for it, and check your charcoal canister and shoot air into your gas lines back from the cannister with gas cap off - listen for air to determine it isn’t clogged.

Good suggestions, I'll give it a try.

 

[89BIGBLUE]

TPS good, within spec?
What does the check engine light code tell you?

This is exciting!

 

[4Cruisers]

Haven't looked into the codes yet. I checked out and calibrated the TPS, should be good. I drove it off the tow dolly a few minutes ago and up to the top of the driveway. It idles fine and you can rev it up - no stumbles or misses throughout the rpm range up to ~2,500 rpm. I did try, as a short-term measure to get it off the street and into the driveway, using the hand throttle - ~1,200 rpm.

 

[4Cruisers]

I forgot to mention another thing to be aware of. I temporarily installed the FJ62 exhaust system for the break-in, but didn't install the outboard (under the drivers side front floor) catalytic converter heat shield. I forgot how hot those suckers get. So after 20 minutes of cam lobe break-in, I started to get out of the FJ60 and noticed my left foot was sliding around. It turns out the floor got so hot it melted the thick black coating into a pool of goo, and wrinkled up the edge of the old temporary floor mat under my foot. Luckily I hadn't installed the floor insulation mat or new carpet yet, just the old floor mat. It also did a nice job of conforming my plastic sandal to the contours of my foot, so that's one good thing . So the FJ62 heat shields under the catalytic converters are back in place for the troubleshooting and the rest of the break-in.

 

[Totheredline]

I rebuilt mine in a garage, in two weeks without an engine stand and in not the most dust free inviroment. Spent $400 on polishing the crank, grinding the valves, hot tank and resurfacing the head. I slapped it all together and no s***, it’s first test drive/break in was from Orlando Florida to Chesapeake VA because I had to be back to work the next day.

I definitely cut corners on the engine rebuild, and you’re definitely not supposed to break an engine in with highway driving. BUT the motor has almost 25,000 miles on it now and it’s super strong. The Toyota F engine really doesn’t seem too picky ‍

Oh, and the previous 3fe that was in my 62 made it about 180miles with NO oil pressure before it finially slung a rod. Not too many engines would have lasted that long.

 

[cruisermatt]

I rebuilt mine in a garage, in two weeks without an engine stand and in not the most dust free inviroment. Spent $400 on polishing the crank, grinding the valves, hot tank and resurfacing the head. I slapped it all together and no s***, it’s first test drive/break in was from Orlando Florida to Chesapeake VA because I had to be back to work the next day.

I definitely cut corners on the engine rebuild, and you’re definitely not supposed to break an engine in with highway driving. BUT the motor has almost 25,000 miles on it now and it’s super strong. The Toyota F engine really doesn’t seem too picky ‍

Oh, and the previous 3fe that was in my 62 made it about 180miles with NO oil pressure before it finially slung a rod. Not too many engines would have lasted that long.

Hey, I recognize that rig. Cool to see it still rolling around.

 

[Totheredline]

Hey, I recognize that rig. Cool to see it still rolling around.

Really? Do you know the PO?

 

[cruisermatt]

Really? Do you know the PO?

I drove it around the block when I was 16 once to see if how I liked the manual behind the 3FE..
then a few years later I talked to either you or who you bought it from about all the smog equipment I was selling at the time?

 

[4Cruisers]

Got back early yesterday evening from Arizona, Utah, and Nevada and started to diagnose the fuel-related issue. I did the first simple test a few minutes ago - disconnected the tank hose from the charcoal canister and hit it with 50 psi compressed air. I had taped a piece of toilet paper over the open gas filler neck and it fluttered up pretty vigorously, so no blockage in that line. Next I'll remove the charcoal canister and do the FSM tests on that.

 

[Seth S]

Engine breakin routines are anyone’s guess as everyone seems to have a different idea. Advice I’ve always gone by is vary the rpm and don’t go crazy high.

 

[Seth S]

I usually coat all bearing surfaces with high pressure assembly lube. On Saab’s we always packed the oil pump with Vaseline because this primed it so it pumps without issue. The high pressure assembly line helps protect bearing surfaces for the few moments on startup while the oil pressure builds and then the oil just washes it out. Assuming all your bolts are torqued properly and oil psi is good the main thing you are doing on start up is wearing the rings to the cylinders assuming you did a hone and new rings. The idea behind varying rpms is to ensure good oil flow and help wear the rings in.

LC engines are such slow spinning tractors that it’s pretty hard to rev them to high evennif you wanted to

 

[4Cruisers]

I pulled the charcoal canister and performed the FSM tests. Blew compressed air into the tank pipe and air came out the purge pipe and vent tube at the bottom of the canister, as it should. However, I blew compressed air into the purge pipe and air came out the tank pipe and the vent tube, which it shouldn't do. So there's a problem with one or both of the internal check valves. I don't require emissions here in New Mexico or Nevada, so I'm tempted to temporarily plug the purge line to the VCV and disable that part of the system. At least the tank vapors will have a chance at being absorbed by the charcoal before being vented out through the bottom vent tube (at least I think that's how it works). I also have a charcoal canister from the '86 FJ60 that I might be able to adapt, even though it has three pipes in the top of the canister, but I don't think ot's worth my time to dig into that. Any other suggestions?

 

[Prairie Swamp]

I forgot to mention another thing to be aware of. I temporarily installed the FJ62 exhaust system for the break-in, but didn't install the outboard (under the drivers side front floor) catalytic converter heat shield. I forgot how hot those suckers get. So after 20 minutes of cam lobe break-in, I started to get out of the FJ60 and noticed my left foot was sliding around. It turns out the floor got so hot it melted the thick black coating into a pool of goo, and wrinkled up the edge of the old temporary floor mat under my foot. Luckily I hadn't installed the floor insulation mat or new carpet yet, just the old floor mat. It also did a nice job of conforming my plastic sandal to the contours of my foot, so that's one good thing . So the FJ62 heat shields under the catalytic converters are back in place for the troubleshooting and the rest of the break-in.

So do you think the EVAP system issue was causing high vacuum in the tank and starving the motor for fuel? Reason I'm asking is I wonder if that cat should get that hot at 20 minutes of normal idle. Just asking. I know they have a heat shield for a reason but still that's hot.

As a younger man I melted down the guts of a couple of cats by running the vehicle out of gas. Lean = hot.

I just started my 3FE for the first time that it has had an exhaust system while in my possession - minus the cat converters so I have no frame of reference how hot these converters should get.

 

[Seth S]

Disregard...somehow cross posted this

 

[4Cruisers]

I routed the vapor line from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister purge pipe instead of the tank pipe. There's a free passage for the tank to vent, through the charcoal in the canister to the vent tube. And I plugged the line from the VCV and secured it to the tank pipe, so it looks like it's hooked up. I think that solved the issue with the fuel tank under vacuum, no big whoosh when I remove the gas cap.

I still have an issue with lack of power under load, but the funny thing is I don't seem to have an issue in reverse! Plenty of power to back up (pretty fast) along the curb on the side street, but not much to go forward. Go figure.

I think the next thing I'll try is to reinstall the OEM fuel pressure regulator that was on the 3FE when it was still in the donor FJ62. The FJ62 was running well when I pulled the engine for my build.

 

[89BIGBLUE]

Any codes from the CEL?

 

[4Cruisers]

Any codes from the CEL?

Just now getting to that. I have to do a little reading to see how to do that, I've never had to do that before.

I did check the fuel pump operation, even though I know it's at least working, by jumping the connectors in the diagnostic port. Could definitely feel the pressure in the return line. And, just for good measure, I swapped the OEM fuel pressure regulator for the new aftermarket (Standard Motor Products) I installed during the build. I'm going back out into the garage in a few minutes to see if that makes a difference.

And I was going to see if I could find/make an adapter for an aftermarket fuel pressure gauge to hook up to the banjo bolt where the cold start injector attaches to the fuel rail. The Toyota SST already has the banjo bolt provision.

 

[4Cruisers]

Well, it seemed to help with the OEM fuel pressure regulator reinstalled, and still no issues with the fuel tank being under vacuum. So I seem to be making some progress. In the meantime, I've been getting the air out of the power steering system and the cooling system. On to the codes.